Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

[Artashes]

Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

God damn, I just responded to Bell and Hakakan's above posts only to find out nothing appeared - phuck-
Scene one ,take two.
Bell ,I gotta agree. It's getting pretty strange over here. In my opinion -- one does not want to confuse America with the facts.
I just woke up, it's colder than 20 below F and I got off of work at 3:18 am.
You say many turks are nice. Superficially maybe. Tell any the truth. They physically look as they do because of thr rape & kidnaping of the indigenous people's that they didn't murder(emmediatly). The land they fraudulently call turkassy was attained by murdering and deporting and torturing the indigenous people.
The word "many"is relative. Compared to the total population, I think minuscule is far more appropriate.
My family told me that in all the hundreds of years of subjugation, even the least harsh of those times they
turk ---never respected our person ---.
Of all the other people you mentioned, which ones did such -- cut open the stomachs of pregnant(Russian 5th column ) women to tear the unborn child out so as to do evil to it. Do you think that was an isolated occurance?
Well I just got burnt out having to write this twice, first time was worded better
Artashes

Ok,my jaw is tight but having to rewrite this I left import stuff out -- you say "many turks helped us in the GENOCIDE.
Of the over 3,000+ villages & towns(not to mention cities) that were wiped out, how many times do you think an Armenian experience a stretch out hand of compassion? Many? I think the - vast majority- the number was ZERO.
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

God damn, I just responded to Bell and Hakakan's above posts only to find out nothing appeared - phuck-
Scene one ,take two.
Bell ,I gotta agree. It's getting pretty strange over here. In my opinion -- one does not want to confuse America with the facts.
I just woke up, it's colder than 20 below F and I got off of work at 3:18 am.
You say many turks are nice. Superficially maybe. Tell any the truth. They physically look as they do because of thr rape & kidnaping of the indigenous people's that they didn't murder(emmediatly). The land they fraudulently call turkassy was attained by murdering and deporting and torturing the indigenous people.
The word "many"is relative. Compared to the total population, I think minuscule is far more appropriate.
My family told me that in all the hundreds of years of subjugation, even the least harsh of those times they
turk ---never respected our person ---.
Of all the other people you mentioned, which ones did such -- cut open the stomachs of pregnant(Russian 5th column ) women to tear the unborn child out so as to do evil to it. Do you think that was an isolated occurance?
Well I just got burnt out having to write this twice, first time was worded better
Artashes

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

Dear Artashes,

today I am very happy twice.
First, President BARACK OBAMA has won the elections it is good for Amerika and the whole world.

Good for the whole world as in "better the devil you know than the devil you don't"?

America - a country where 48% of the population that votes hates the other 48% that votes (and viceversa) with a fanaticism that makes your average Muslim fundamentalist seem mild and reasoned. No actual thought process seems to be ever involved in forming the opinions of those 96%, and they have no concern for truth or facts or past evidence. The remaining 4% - the swing voters - seem to just vote according to which lot they hate the least - and their votes are based on nothing more than an "I don't trust him" opinion (an opinion that is also never based on truth or facts or past evidence). If this is "democracy", then to hell with democracy.

[Haykakan]

Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

It is easy to see how we armenians can feel the way hayayrun describes but the reality is not that simple. Not all turks are bad,-many saved armenians during the genocide and many support our cause of justice and human dignity. I hear middleeastern armenians talking arabic to eachother all the time and the same with russian armenians and Iranians so why should the turkish armenian be any different? Yes the guy that asked you not to speak armenian is a moron but that does not mean all armenians are morons does it? My point is do not generalize because doing so makes you no different then the murderers who killed our people.

[Hayayrun]

Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

Hayayrun, your above post is both moving and informative for myself and probably many other Armenians.
I share both your anger(hatred) and agitation for the "affections" that some Armenians show to the simi-human conniving fraudulent,heartless, murdering,kidnapping,rapists called turks.
I personally have had to "own" the fact that I come from a family that has been in -- subjugation -- for many hundreds of years.
When I go back and look how my family became subjugated, the murdering, raping,and kidnapping intensifies.
What our family and many other families (most murdered, or stolen) have went through has a name ---------- GENOCIDE --.
Although I want to say much more, I'm going to end this by simply saying ---
--- I do completely understand where you are coming from.
From one Armenian to another

Dear Artashes,

today I am very happy twice.
First, President BARACK OBAMA has won the elections it is good for Amerika and the whole world.
The second happyness for me is the fact that I got this sweet thread from you .
I am very happy that you understand me.

Thankyou so much and have a nice day

Greetings from Munic
Hayayrun

[Artashes]

Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

I see you don't want to understand me and you argue consciously things I never wrote. I never said they are turks I said they behave like turks.

Anyway, I think you are not able to discuss in this issue, because I assume you never been in Turkey and belong turkish-armenians, if yes you would understand me immediately.

You can't imagine how deep I suffer all the time, when I am among turkish-armenians, hearing all the time the agli turkish language even in their own homes they speak "turkish", hear turkish music and watch turkish tv.

I was born in Istanbul/turkey and I know want I speak about.

A few years ago, I was in Cinarcik with my family, it is a popular vacation destination near Istanbul were also a lot of turkish-armeniens live. One day I spoke round about 2 hours with a turkish-armenian priest at beach. We were happy that we speak all the time armenian and we are able to exchange opinions since a turkish-armenian gay came to us and said loud and clear of course in turkish: " Don't speak armenian anymore because their are many turks here and it is "unlovely" to hear all the time armenian language".

I think you can imagine how extreme angry I was at that moment. I wanted to kill this gay, but the priest said to me let him go away he is a silly gay without "integrity".

I am living 44 years in Munic and we armenians here in "Agump" have only with turkish-armenians great problems, because they speak and grumble all the time in turkish with eachother, even those who visited armenian school in Istanbul preferred to speak turkish.

"You cannot imagine how holy turkish affectations are for those turkish-armenians"
God damned with them!!!

Greetings from Munic
Hayayrun

Hayayrun, your above post is both moving and informative for myself and probably many other Armenians.
I share both your anger(hatred) and agitation for the "affections" that some Armenians show to the simi-human conniving fraudulent,heartless, murdering,kidnapping,rapists called turks.
I personally have had to "own" the fact that I come from a family that has been in -- subjugation -- for many hundreds of years.
When I go back and look how my family became subjugated, the murdering, raping,and kidnapping intensifies.
What our family and many other families (most murdered, or stolen) have went through has a name ---------- GENOCIDE --.
Although I want to say much more, I'm going to end this by simply saying ---
--- I do completely understand where you are coming from.
From one Armenian to another

[Hayayrun]

Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

A translation of the above: "When I speak about "real Armenian blood" I mean Armenians who say and think exactly the same as I say and think. I have decided that anyone who doesn't say and think what I want is behaving like a Turk for not realising how wonderful I am. How dare they not tolerate my intolerance! I hate those Armenians who don't agree with me and don't do what I say - so let's call them Turks and make them not Armenian anymore".

I see you don't want to understand me and you argue consciously things I never wrote. I never said they are turks I said they behave like turks.

Anyway, I think you are not able to discuss in this issue, because I assume you never been in Turkey and belong turkish-armenians, if yes you would understand me immediately.

You can't imagine how deep I suffer all the time, when I am among turkish-armenians, hearing all the time the agli turkish language even in their own homes they speak "turkish", hear turkish music and watch turkish tv.

I was born in Istanbul/turkey and I know want I speak about.

A few years ago, I was in Cinarcik with my family, it is a popular vacation destination near Istanbul were also a lot of turkish-armeniens live. One day I spoke round about 2 hours with a turkish-armenian priest at beach. We were happy that we speak all the time armenian and we are able to exchange opinions since a turkish-armenian gay came to us and said loud and clear of course in turkish: " Don't speak armenian anymore because their are many turks here and it is "unlovely" to hear all the time armenian language".

I think you can imagine how extreme angry I was at that moment. I wanted to kill this gay, but the priest said to me let him go away he is a silly gay without "integrity".

I am living 44 years in Munic and we armenians here in "Agump" have only with turkish-armenians great problems, because they speak and grumble all the time in turkish with eachother, even those who visited armenian school in Istanbul preferred to speak turkish.

"You cannot imagine how holy turkish affectations are for those turkish-armenians"
God damned with them!!!

Greetings from Munic
Hayayrun

[Artashes]

Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

In my opinion, any discussion of The relatively few Armenians that remain in the occupied lands needs to include TRAUMA in any evaluation of their actions.
I have found very little mention of --- Trans - Generational --- trauma caused by GENECIDE.
Please, have a heart for these people.
Artashes

Sorry, forgot to include --- INSANITY ---
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

In my opinion, any discussion of The relatively few Armenians that remain in the occupied lands needs to include TRAUMA in any evaluation of their actions.
I have found very little mention of --- Trans - Generational --- trauma caused by GENECIDE.
Please, have a heart for these people.
Artashes

[londontsi]

Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

.....
When I speak about "real Armenian blood" I mean Armenians who themselves feel Armenian and don't behave like a Turk, most of Armenians in Turkey feel themself like a Turk and they behave like a turk.

If you put some though to try to solve the conundrum

“Does man create the environment or the environment create the man?”

You will understand why.