Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

[Gavur]

We need to have a thread "Can US of A be taught tolerance"!

[1.5 million]

We need to have a thread "Can US of A be taught tolerance"!

good one!

[Joseph]

We need to have a thread "Can US of A be taught tolerance"!

Generally? Yes.

About 50% of our population is tolerant. The rest are very similar to ulusalci, except they are less prone to violence.

[Gavur]

Generally? Yes.

About 50% of our population is tolerant. The rest are very similar to ulusalci, except they are less prone to violence.

If you're accurate ,it sounds like a hopeless case!50% is too much to bear.

[Tongue]

Turkey's MPs back attacks on Iraqi Kurds

Michael Howard in the Matin mountains, northern Iraq, and Julian Borger
Thursday October 18, 2007
The Guardian

The Turkish parliament yesterday gave its government the green light for cross-border attacks into Iraq to destroy Kurdish rebel bases, defying US calls for restraint.

The prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, quickly pointed out that the vote did not signify an operation was imminent. But it does represent a blank cheque for military action at any time within the next year. The authorisation was passed by 507 votes to 19, with only a small Kurdish party opposing it. It came just as George Bush was telling journalists in Washington: "We are making it very clear to Turkey that we don't think it is in their interest to send troops into Iraq."

The president added: "Actually they have troops already stationed in Iraq, and they've had troops stationed there for quite a while. We don't think it's in their interest to send more troops in."

Turkish TV quoted Mr Erdogan as saying: "What's important is the parliament's decision, not what people say."

The raids would be aimed at the Kurdistan Workers' party (PKK), which has stepped up attacks inside eastern Turkey in recent months. A senior PKK leader told the Guardian: "If Turkey conducts any attack or operation against Iraqi Kurdistan or Kurds anywhere we are prepared to defend ourselves and we have prepared well for such an occasion. We do not want a military confrontation but we will spread resistance throughout Turkey and Kurdish areas in Iraq, Iran and Syria."

Last night Iraqi leaders sought to prevent an attack. Hours before the vote the prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, called Mr Erdogan to ask for more time to curb rebel activities in Iraq. "Let's do whatever is necessary together," Mr Maliki said, according to the Anatolian news agency.

After the vote the Iraqi president, Jalal Talabani, an ethnic Kurd, called on both sides for restraint. "We consider activities of PKK against the interests of the Kurdish people first, and then against the interests of Turkey," he said in Paris. "We have asked the PKK to stop fighting, to end the so-called military activity."

However, there were divisions between Kurdish politicians and the Maliki government on how to respond to any incursion. Sami al-Askari, a senior Maliki adviser, said it was up to the Kurdish fighters (peshmerga) and US-led coalition troops to stop the Turks. "The Kurdistan regional government should not allow PKK fighters to infiltrate in to Turkey from northern Iraq," he said. "The Iraqi government will not use its army and police to stand in front of the Turkish army because security in that region is the responsibility of the multinational forces and the peshmerga."

But a Kurdish MP in Baghdad, Mahmoud Othman, said any invasion by a foreign power should be treated as a violation of Iraqi sovereignty, adding: "It is the constitutional duty of all Iraqi forces to protect the borders."

US influence on Turkey has been hit by the Iraq war, a perceived lack of US support for Turkey's counter-insurgency against the PKK, and a US bill declaring the mass killing of Armenians during the first world war to be "genocide". The congressional resolution was losing momentum yesterday after Democrats withdrew their support following calls not to endanger the alliance with Turkey.

[Falc]

Jews now target of Turkey's Anger about US Resolution

I find this typical. Rather than look at their actions, the Turkish government will even pick people at random to blame It's all the more interesting that Turks should claim to side with jews when Turkey was allied with Hitler, taught the Nazis torture techniques.

I also really wish the world would get the timeline straightened out. Even in this article, it could seem to suggest that the Turks have been in the region for 2000 years. Fact is, they're newer than Islam. Anyway, here's the article:

Jews Become Targets of Turkey's Anger at U.S. Vote on Armenia
October 17, 2007 22:05:18
By Louis Meixler

Oct. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Turkey's rage over a U.S. congressional
resolution accusing it of genocide against Armenians nearly a century
ago is being felt in quarters far removed from Washington: its own
Jewish community.
Turkish Jews' concerns for their safety have been fanned by comments
from Foreign Minister Ali Babacan that there's a perception in the
country that Jews and Armenians ``are now hand-in-hand trying to
defame Turkey.'' Turkey's complaint: Its usual allies among pro-Israel
U.S. lobbyists didn't work hard enough to block the resolution.
Even as support for the measure fades in Congress -- U.S. House
Speaker Nancy Pelosi yesterday backed off her promise to bring it to a
floor vote -- it has intensified feelings of vulnerability among
Turkey's 23,000 Jews, who have been subjected to terrorist bombings.
``There have been insinuations that our security and well- being in
Turkey is linked to the fate'' of the resolution, Jewish leaders said
in a half-page ad in the Washington Times urging its rejection.
``Public opinion is so emotional on the issue that they seem to blame
everyone who may not have been able to block it,'' Sami Kohen, a
prominent member of the Jewish community in Istanbul and a columnist
for the Milliyet newspaper, said in an interview. ``Some elements --
Islamists and ultranationalists -- might use the Jews as a scapegoat
and say they have failed, they have done nothing.''
Genocidal Campaign
Armenian groups say 1.5 million Armenians were killed in a campaign of
genocide as the Ottoman Empire collapsed at the end of World War I and
a new Turkish republic was established. Turkey says that number is
inflated and that Turks and Armenians alike were killed in large
numbers.
Turkey, which has close ties with Israel, has long relied on lobbying
from Jewish groups in Washington to aid in fending off proposals like
the one endorsed by a House of Representatives panel Oct. 10. But the
alliance suffered a blow when the Anti-Defamation League, the largest
U.S. organization aimed at combating anti-Semitism, issued a statement
on Aug. 21 saying the killings of Armenians were ``tantamount to
genocide,'' though it still opposed the congressional resolution.
Babacan, in an Oct. 6 interview with Turkey's Vatan newspaper, said
that ``we would not be able to keep the Jews out of this business'' if
the resolution is adopted.
Defaming Turkey
Three days later, in an interview with the Jerusalem Post, he said
that ``the perception in Turkey right now is that the Jewish people,
or the Jewish organizations let's say, and the Armenian diaspora, the
Armenian lobbies, are now hand-in-hand trying to defame Turkey.''
Foreign Ministry spokesman Levent Bilmen issued a statement the day
after the Jerusalem Post interview, saying that leaders of the
``Jewish community, which is a part of our society, have from the
beginning rejected the unjust and wrong contents'' of the genocide
resolution.
Even so, Kohen said, for the Jewish community, ``this publicity could
make their life difficult.''
On the Web site of the Islamic-leaning Zaman newspaper, 22 percent of
the 869 people who had responded to an online survey by yesterday
blamed ``Jews having legitimized the genocide claims'' for the
resolution getting as far as it has.
De-Linking
``This perception has to be fought by the government, which must
de-link the American Jews and the resolution,'' said Soner Cagaptay,
an analyst at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. ``A lot
of Jewish groups are working to defeat the resolution.''
So is President George W. Bush, who called Pelosi Oct. 16 to urge her
to cancel plans for a vote and said yesterday that Congress ``has more
important work to do than antagonizing a democratic ally in the Muslim
world.''
The Turkish government recalled its ambassador after last week's panel
vote. U.S. relations with Turkey, the only Muslim member of NATO and a
key supply route for troops in Iraq, were further strained by
yesterday's vote by the Turkish parliament to approve a possible
attack on Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq.
Leaders of the Jewish community in Turkey declined to be
interviewed. While there have been no reports of increased security at
Jewish sites, security is already extremely high. Most synagogues in
Turkey are unmarked and guarded by police.
Bombing Synagogues
In November 2003, terrorists linked to al-Qaeda slammed truck bombs
into two synagogues in Istanbul, killing 25 people, mostly Muslim
bystanders and nearby shopkeepers. In 1986, Palestinian gunmen entered
the main synagogue, firing guns and lobbing grenades at Sabbath
worshippers. Twenty-two were killed.
The land that is now Turkey has been home to a Jewish community for at
least 2,000 years. Ottoman Sultan Beyazit II invited Spanish Jews to
settle in Istanbul after they were expelled in 1492.
The community -- numbering about 100,000 in 1900 -- dwindled after
Turkey imposed special taxes on minorities during World War II that
destroyed many businesses. The creation of Israel in 1948 attracted
many Jewish immigrants from Turkey, one of the factors that helped
forge good relations between the two countries.
``Turkey's perception of its good ties with Israel is that this
relationship stands on American Jewish support for Turkey in
Washington,'' Cagaptay said. ``This is not a bilateral relationship,
it is a trilateral relationship.''
To contact the reporter on this story: Louis Meixler in Istanbul at
[email protected] .
Last Updated: October 17, 2007 17:02 EDT


Submitted by Emil Lazarian

[Tongue]

Turkey Threatens Tougher Sanctions Against Armenia

Turkey Threatens Tougher Sanctions Against Armenia

Turkey should not punish the U.S. administration over a resolution in the U.S. Congress that calls the World War I-era killings of Armenians a genocide, but instead should impose sanctions against Armenia for supporting the measure, a top Turkish official said Tuesday.

A U.S. House of Representatives panel approved a resolution last week labeling the killings as genocide, an affront to Turks who deny any systematic campaign to eliminate Armenians at that time. U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said she would schedule a vote soon on the resolution. U.S. President George W. Bush opposed it.

"Bush and his team should not be punished," Egemen Bagis, a foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said on CNN-Turk television. "The reaction should be against Pelosi and her team." Bagis noted that U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates had lobbied against the measure.

In a televised speech on Tuesday, Erdogan compared the resolution to a "summary execution." "Nobody has the right to judge Turkey like this," Erdogan said. "Those who dare confront an important country like Turkey will pay the price."

Erdogan warned that the prospect of improving ties with Armenia would also suffer if the resolution was backed by the full House of Representatives. "Those who expect openings from Turkey will be left alone with their problems," he said. "They will have to pay the cost of their hostility towards an important country like Turkey."

Bagis said Turkey should impose sanctions against Armenia because it supported the resolution. "Turkey must impose sanctions against Armenia," Bagis said. "Turkey has already done a list of what and when it will do, and the prime minister has already given necessary orders."

The border between Turkey and Armenia is closed. But Turkey could cancel flights between Istanbul and Yerevan, as well as stopover flights to Armenia, and also prevent around 4,000 trucks from hauling goods to Armenia through neighboring Georgia.

http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeniareport/report/en/2007/10/E97EDDD8-36AB-44AA-A2D6-3D3332F9A830.asp

[Gavur]

Aews Have Started To Target Us Don't You See The Flood Of Articles And Media Attacks Against The Armenian Community?

It's Time To Fight Fire With Fire!

[Joseph]

Typical

Ah yes, whenever Turks get war fever and are pissed at Armenians, they can always fall back and say Ocalan is Armenian. It makes them feel better and gives them even more of an excuse to arouse the masses. Please see the last paragraph.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=126156

Barzani, the PKK and the Sèvres Peace Treaty

The assaults and the terrorist attacks on innocent Turkish people and the Turkish troops' steady orientation toward the southeastern region of Turkey force us, the academics, to dig deeper into fact and reason.
The deeper we go, the more we're faced with interesting documentation and realities.

Just until a few years ago, Massoud Barzani, the current leader of the Iraqi Kurdish region, was just a tribal leader. The only way he could travel abroad was with a diplomatic passport issued by the Turkish government. Saddam never issued him a passport, nor was he treated as the leader of Iraqi Kurds by the then Iraqi government.

Taking into consideration the ongoing civil war and the backup given by the occupying power in Iraq -- the US government -- he is dreaming of an independent Kurdish government.

To fulfill his dreams he even drafted up a "Constitution of the Iraqi Kurdistan Region" on April 19, 2004, only three-and-a-half years ago.

The size of this constitution is 15 single-sided pages in a 10-point font, single spaced.

The most interesting part of this constitution is the "Preamble" or the "Foreword," which naturally comes at the very beginning. The reasoning of the constitution and the facts on establishing the "the Iraqi Kurdistan Region" are detailed in this preamble.

It reads as follows:

"The Kurds are an ancient people who have lived in their homeland of Kurdistan for thousands of years, a nation with all the attributes that entitle it to practice the right of self-determination similar to other nations and peoples of the world. This is a right that was recognized for the first time in Woodrow Wilson's Fourteen Points issued at the end of World War I and the principles of which have since become entrenched in international law.

Despite the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres that recognized the right of self-determination in articles 62-64, international interests and political expediency prevented the Kurds from enjoying and practicing this right. In contradiction to what that the Treaty had offered, Southern Kurdistan was annexed in 1925 to the newly created state of Iraq, which had been created four years earlier in 1921, without consideration of the will of its people, although it was stipulated that officials of Kurdish origin should be appointed to the administration of their own land and that Kurdish should be the language of education, the courts and for all services rendered."

The date and the treaty described -- the Treaty of Sèvres, Aug. 10, 1920 -- is a non-valid World War I treaty, which was never put into effect. This treaty was never signed or certified by Vahdettin, the sultan of the Ottoman Empire of that era, and never ratified by the parliaments of the drafting states: France, the United Kingdom and Italy.

Barzani is taking into consideration this notorious treaty and relying on the occupying power in Iraq, the United States. He never thought of what would happen the day after United States goes home.

Just couple of days ago he dared to utter the very delicate expression in diplomacy, "casus belli," which means "cause for war," if Turkey attempts a cross-border operation, without taking into consideration his position, arms, troops, economy and possible sanctions he could be forced to withstand.

"Casus belli" is considered a one-way street and doesn't offer the option of backing down from the cause. Of course, this diplomatic condition is valid for strong and principled countries, not comedians.

Of course he had to retract it only 24 hours later, claiming that it was released by the press following a mistranslation.

Now he is playing rather an innocent game, which in the end may force him to abandon his clan by calling on the PKK to leave the region and to solve their dispute with the government of Turkey within Turkish territory.

The most interesting part is that if one day Barzani visits the terrorist leader Apo (the nickname of PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan) in the same cell, although they claim they are of Kurdish origin, they won't be able communicate.

The two Kurdish languages, Zaza and Kurmanji, are like Chinese and Spanish, meaning they have no common background; a Zaza-speaking Kurd cannot understand a Kurmanji-speaking one.

But the most interesting part is that Apo speaks none of them except Turkish. He even cannot speak Arabic. Some allegations say that he is of Armenian origin, named Artin Agopyan and not even a Kurd.

03.11.2007
Comments | Send to Print | Send to My Friend

[Gavur]

A well known Turkish trade of renaming people and places as it fits them and also because of their crooked tongue.