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**imported_Hellektor** · 11-24-2005, 05:13 PM

A Rebuttal of Injust McFarty's "Essay", the Revisionist's Bible 2

To find the answer, historians look to government statistics for population figures, especially to archival statistics, because governments seldom deliberately lie to themselves. They want to know their populations so they can understand them, watch them, conscript them, and, most importantly to a government, tax them. The Ottomans were no different than any other government in this situation. Like other governments they made mistakes, particularly in under-counting women and children. However, this can be corrected using statistical methods. What results is the most accurate possible picture of the number of Ottoman Armenians. By the beginning of World War I Armenians made up only 17 percent of the area they claimed as " Ottoman Armenia," the so called "Six Vilayets." Judging by population figures, there was no Ottoman Armenia. In fact if all the Armenians in the world had come to Eastern Anatolia, they still would not have been a majority there.

Voil�, the favorite Turkish numbers game again! How they don't get tired of regurgitating this nauseating, pseudo-scientific approach is stupefying to say the least. In the previous paragraph I have given examples of the estimations of the indigenous Armenian population that have "skipped" the "professor's" attention. Once and for all: There were no official census in the Ottoman Tyranny in today's sense of the word and the whole thing was based on estimations. The fact that the ruling class, out of fear most probably, wanted to present itself the majority, is reason enough to deflate the number of the minorities. The conman even admits that they were "under-counting women and children" especially those they stole for their evil purposes.

"To find the answer," why doesn't the "historian look to government statistics" regarding the sheer number of Armenian churches for instance?
Over 95% out of at least 2200 working Armenian churches accounted for in 1912 are now destroyed. According to a 1974 UNESCO account, from the 913 monuments still standing after the genocide 464 were totally destroyed, 252 were turned in ruins and 197 needed serious restoration. Beside the fact that they are trying to erase every trace of Armenians, yet another irrefutable proof of the Armenian Genocide, one must ask 2200 churches for how many people? If you think about it, there must have been well over 3 million Armenians living under Ottoman Tyranny before the Genocide and not less. If we were to estimate the real number of Armenians, we have to bear in mind that:
I. The Turks had been stealing and raping women in their filthy harems and usurping healthy boys for janissary for centuries.
II. There was a policy of forced turkification to increase the number of the Turks and to eliminate the non-Turkish majority who lived between them and their Central Asian kin, hence the birth of Pan-Turkism.
Also the fact that babies were "ravished from the embraces of their mothers and mercilessly hurled against rocks" ever since they set hoof this side of the Caspian, we have to conclude from the 70 million population of today's Asia Minor at least 30 million should have been Armenians.

Two inferences can be drawn from the relatively small number of Armenians in the Ottoman East: The first is that by themselves, the Armenians of Anatolia would have been no great threat to the Ottoman Empire. Armenian rebels might have disputed civil order but there were too few of them to endanger Ottoman authority. Armenian rebels needed help from outside forces, help that could only be provided by Russia. The second inference is that Armenian nationalists could have created a state that was truly theirs only if they first evicted the Muslims who lived there.

The "all" knowing sage draws two inferences with his fat butt and he expects people who have actually read real history books, would buy that excrement. And he's totally right that "the Armenians of Anatolia would have been no great threat to the Ottoman Empire" and they never were. In fact the ignorant jester wouldn't want to know that the Armenians built the Ottoman "Empire". The slime ball rolling over an ancient nation's untarnished reputation, trying to rub off the slime that doesn't stick and makes him an uglier liar, wants the uninformed reader to believe the Armenians received Russian help, but my copy of the "Story of Dashnaktsoutiun", in Armenian if you please, tells me that the party was loathed and feared by the Czarist Russia, because of its revolutionary ideology and they smuggled the weapons they needed themselves, putting their lives on the line. Now it's the turn of the uneducated "wise man" to show a document that proves any Russian help to the independence seeking Armenian revolutionaries. The second wily inference is even more stinking, because firstly, the Muslim population was artificially settled in Armenian land to harass and chase the Armenians out of their thousands year homeland, secondly it was the Armenians who were "evicted" from their motherland which is populated with as many Muslims as the Turk loving "professor" can wish.

To understand the history of the development of Muslim-Armenian antagonism one must apply historical principles. In applying those principles one can see that the history of Armenians was a history like other histories. Some of that history was naturally unique because of its environment but much of it was strikingly similar to what was seen in other places and times.

The unprincipled scoundrel has never seen the cover of a history book. He has never bothered to study the Arab invasion of Armenia and over 250 years of resistance to these tyrants, he doesn't want to know what the Armenians had to take under Persian Khans, worst than all the ignoble, ignominious ignoramus doesn't care a hang for the thousand year humiliation and extortion of the Armenians under his beloved species, hell no... By cunningly describing the Turco-Armenian problem as "Muslim-Armenian antagonism", the thug intends to steer up anti-Armenian feeling among Muslims for obvious reasons.
Of course it has escaped his sick mind that despite historic tragedies, the Armenians have never underlined the Muslim-Armenian side of the problem. In fact the Armenians have always emphasized that they are grateful to the Arabs for sheltering the survivors of the Genocide and they have always maintained good relations with Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iran and other Muslim nations. Most of all Armenians haven't spared anything in helping their host nations' progress in all fields.

1. Most ethnic conflicts develop over a long period. Germans and Poles, Finns and Russians, Hindus and Muslims in the Indian subcontinent, Irish and English, Europeans and Native Americans in North America -- all of these ethnic conflicts unfolded over generations, often over centuries.

How scholarly...

2. Until very modern times most mass mortality of ethnic groups was the result of warfare in which there were at least two warring sides.

"most mass mortality"... does this idiot speak English or what? So, we have to conclude diseases took less mass mortality. The guy's some expert.

3. When conflict erupted between nationalist revolutionaries and states it was the revolutionaries who began confrontations. Internal peace was in the interest of settled states. Looked at charitably, states often wished for tranquility for the benefits it gave their citizens. With less charity it can be seen that peace made it easier to collect taxes and use armies to fight foreign enemies, not internal foes. World history demonstrates this too well for examples from other regions to be needed here. In the Ottoman Empire, the examples of the rebellions in Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria demonstrate the truth of this.

Yeah, lazy smart ass, "World history demonstrates this too well for examples from other regions " so why care cite examples from the region in question?
Why do we want to know that:
To humiliate the non-Muslims, as early as 1588 Armenian men among other minorities, had to wear black head coverings. According to Ricaut this gave the Muslims the assurance who they could treat cruelly without the fear of being prosecuted by the law. Because a Christian attacked by a Turk didn�t have the right to defend themselves, the only way out was escape. Otherwise they had to let themselves be abused and humiliated without being allowed to hit back (M. Febvre, L��tat pr�sent de la Turquie o� il est trait� des vies m�urs et coutumes des Ottomans et autres peuples de leur Empire, p.152, Paris 1675).

What difference would it make if we mentioned en passant that:
To avoid this danger that was permanently hanging above their heads, some reaya would clothe themselves differently but even in 1757 this didn�t escape the attention of the rulers. According to Vasif, �The Greek, Armenian and Jewish subjects had trespassed the Sharia with their clothing. Therefore, the Greek and Armenian patriarchs and the Jewish religious leaders were summoned to the head officer (Aga) in Istanbul to be reminded of the dress code commanded by the padishah, they were also warned if these obligations weren�t observed immediately the offenders would be severely punished (Tarihi Vasif, 1827)

Or who cares when the hard working Armenian reaya had to give everything they produced and some to the greedy Ottoman bandits without any protest, as recorded In Ko�i Bey's "Risale" (report) presented to sultan Murad IV in 1631-1632:
"In the beginning 40 to 50 akce was imposed on each household as "avaris". Today 240 akce per capita as "cizye", another 300 per household as "avaris" and an akce for every sheep as sheep tax is being imposed. The Sipahi officers of six regiments have taken the collecting of the sultan's tax in their hands. They have violently seized the accounting books from the tax-collectors. These are for sale in broad daylight, in front of everyone's eyes at the entrance of sultan Muhammed mosque, for the price of one and a half akce gulamiye. The buyers that wouldn't be satisfied with one kurus have started to take 700 to 800 akce for "cizye" and 30 to 40 akce for every sheep in the land of Islam. How can the "reaya" tolerate such oppression..."

Certainly it is of no significance, and it shouldn't stir the loyal subjects to protest that:
"Devsirme", the collecting and conversion of Christians, mainly for janissary purposes, that was the order of the day from 14th to 19th centuries, expressed itself as legitimized oppression. According to Selaniki the Turkish annals writer: "The rulers of the time were ruthless in recruiting children... Like wolves attacking sheep, they mercilessly assaulted the reaya in the land. As a result they have robbed the rich reaya, while they have ravished the children of the poor and ruined their families"

On these principles, the histories of Turks and Armenians are no different from other histories. Historical principles applied.

Read the above and get a life, you shame of all historians.

**imported_Hellektor** · 11-24-2005, 05:14 PM

A Rebuttal of Injust McFarty's "Essay", the Revisionist's Bible 3

The conflict between Turks and Armenians did indeed develop over a long time. The primary impetus for what was to become the Armenian-Muslim conflict lay in Russian imperial expansion. At the time of Ivan the Terrible, circa the sixteenth century, Russians began a policy of expelling Muslims from lands they had conquered. Over the next three hundred years, Muslims, many of them Turks, were killed or driven out of what today is Ukraine, Crimea and the Caucasus. From the 1770s to the 1850s Russian attacks and Russian laws forced more than 400,000 Crimean Tatars to flee their land. In the Caucasus region, 1.2 million Circassians and Abazians were either expelled or killed by Russians. Of that number, one third died as victims of the mass murder of Muslims that has been mostly ignored. The Tatars, Circassians and Abazians came to the Ottoman Empire. Their presence taught Ottoman Muslims what they could expect from a Russian conquest.

Besides the fact that the "Muslims" i.e. Turks were not the indigenous people of the region and their presence was the result of countless barbaric invasions that brought nothing but death and destruction and stopped the normal progress of the people who lived in the area for thousands of years, one cannot help asking what the hell this so called Russian atrocities have to do with the Armenians. The "scholar" has suffered brain short-circuit. His hatred for the Russians as a result of his Cold War upbringing has damaged his brain so severely that he cannot distinguish between two totally distinct ethnicities.

Members of the Armenian minority in the Caucasus began to rebel against Muslim rule and to ally themselves with Russian invaders in the 1790s: Armenian armed units joined the Russians, Armenian spies delivered plans to the Russians. In these wars, Muslims were massacred and forced into exile. Armenians in turn migrated into areas previously held by Muslims, such as Karabakh. This was the beginning of the division of the peoples of the southern Caucasus and eastern Anatolia into two conflicting sides -- the Russian Empire and Armenians on one side, the Muslim Ottoman Empire on the other. Most Armenians and Muslims undoubtedly wanted nothing to do with this conflict, but the events were to force them to take sides.

"Armenian armed units"??!! "Armenian spies"!!?? Where does this charlatan get these ideas from? Russian invaders? The Ottomans were the indigenous people of Armenia and Asia Minor since the days of the dinosaurs.
Artsakh (Karabagh) has been the last bastion of Armenian independence. The Melikdoms of Karabagh are the unshakable evidence. Yes, Eastern Armenia was under Persian rule. Yes, Armenians were relieved when Russia "liberated" this part of their land from the tyranny of the khans. What do you want? Aren't Armenians entitled to 10% of their historic land? What does he know of the reason the area was emptied of Armenians and Muslims were settled in their place?
What does the con historian know of my own ancestors who were forcefully migrated to Iran by Shah Abbas (himself of Turkish origin) in 1604, who was engaged in a war against the Ottomans. He burned the entire region to cut the supply routes thus, the advance of the Ottoman army.
It's believed that out of two to three hundred thousand Armenians forcefully relocated, about half died, mostly drowning in the Arax River. However, the Iranian Armenians have forgotten the dark days and since Shah Abbas settled them in an area near Isfahan and let them build a new city that the Armenians called Nor Jugha (New Julfa) in memory of their home, they flourished and became a respected and influential minority and unlike in the Ottoman Tyranny they were never subject to genocidal madness.
Here I demand the scamp to produce ONE map or document from before the Armenian Genocide that calls Armenia "Eastern Anatolia". Otherwise he has to put a cork in his rectum to prevent this sort of excretion. Finally the fabricated claim that "Armenians in turn migrated into areas previously held by Muslims, such as Karabakh" is answered in the excerpt below, from George Bournoutian's exposing of Armenian hating pseudo-scholars who out of desperate need for non-existing "proofs", maliciously distort his views and misquote him to defend their lame and bogus arguments:

"Prior to Soviet rule, the Russians conducted a number of surveys in the different regions of Transcaucasia.(2) Although not as accurate as a present-day census might be, the surveys were the first of their kind in Western Asia. In 1822, the Russian administration decided to determine the Armenian population in Transcaucasia. The survey was primarily to determine how many "non-Orthodox" Christians there were in the region.(3) The survey managed to record the number of Armenians in Georgia, Ganje (Elisavetpol), and Baku.(4) Erevan and Nakhichevan were under Persian rule and were not included. The Khan of Karabakh, Mahdi-qoli, fearing that the Armenian-populated districts might be removed from his control, did not permit the survey in Karabakh. Later that year, he fled to Persia, and the Russians were able to commence their first survey of Karabakh. The survey began in early 1823 and was completed on 17 April of that same year.(5) Its more than 300 pages recorded both the Armenian and Muslim population, not by numbers, but by villages and tax assessments. It noted that the district of Khachen had twelve Armenian villages and no Tatar (Russian term for the Turkish population) villages; Jalapert had eight Armenian villages and no Tatar villages; Dizak had fourteen Armenian villages and one Tatar village; Gulistan had two Armenian and five Tatar villages; and Varanda had twenty-three Armenian villages and one Tatar village. Thus the five mountainous districts (generally known as Nagorno-Karabakh today) which, according to Persian and Turkish sources, constituted the five (khamse) Armenian melikdoms,(6) had an overwhelming Armenian population before 1828.(7)
The mahal of Tat'ew had twelve Armenian and one Tatar village; that of Kiopar, six Armenian villages; and Bargushat, two Armenian and three Tatar villages. Thus these mahals, which form part of present-day Zangezur and were a part of the larger region called Karabakh, were also overwhelmingly Armenian. Armenians were also represented, in small numbers, in all the other non-nomadic districts of Karabakh."

2. The first survey was conducted in Georgia at the start of the nineteenth century, and the last was the complete survey of Transcaucasia in 1897.

3. The Georgian Church was in communion with the Russian Orthodox Church.

4. Akty sobrannye Kavkzskoiu Arkheograficheskoiu Kommissieiu (Documents Pertaining to the Russian Administration of the Caucasus), VI/1 (Tiflis, 1866), doc. 601.

5. The survey, conducted by State Counselor Mogilevskii and Colonel Ermolov II (a relative of General Ermolov, commander-in-chief of the Caucasus), was printed in Tiflis in 1866 (no pagination).

6. For example see Tarikh-e Qarabagh, written by Mirza Jamal Javanshir, the vizier of Ebrahim Khan of Karabagh, manuscript no. B-712/11603, Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan, Baku (my English translation and the facsimile in A History of Qarabagh [Costa Mesa, CA: Mazda Publishers, 1993]).

7. The survey lists Goris and Khan-Kend (present-day Step'anakert, capital of Nagorno-Karabakh) as Armenian settlements.

The 1827 to 1829 wars between Russians, Persians and Ottomans saw the beginning of a great population exchange in the East that was to last until 1920. When the Russians conquered the Erivan Khanete, today the Armenian Republic, the majority of its population was Muslim. Approximately two thirds, 60,000 of these Muslims were forced out of Erivan by Russians. The Russians went on to invade Anatolia, where large numbers of Armenians took up the Russian cause. At the war's end, when the Russians left eastern Anatolia 50 to 90,000 Armenians joined them. They took the place of the exiled Muslims in Erivan and else where, joined by 40,000 Armenians from Iran.

A thorn in your Mongol eye and a trunk in your slandering butt, this tiny, little, rocky, craggy resource-less land should also be the Devil given property of the Turks so that the diabolical Pan-Turkist sick dream would come true. The despicable rascal has a way of showing his dull and faded genocidal colors. "...large numbers of Armenians took up the Russian cause", we have to believe the "learned" liar. And what were 40,000 Armenians doing in Iran? They just grew on trees in Iran...
One more thing: The city is called Yerevan you insolent, castrated, whining, whimpering swine.

**imported_Hellektor** · 11-24-2005, 05:16 PM

A Rebuttal of Injust McFarty's "Essay", the Revisionist's Bible 4

The great population exchange had begun, and mutual distrust between Anatolia's Muslims and the Armenians was the result. The Russians were to invade Anatolia twice more in the nineteenth century, during the Crimean War and the 1877-78 Russo-Turkish War. In both wars significant numbers of Armenians joined the Russians acting as spies and even occupation police.

"mutual distrust between Anatolia's Muslims and the Armenians...", "spies and even occupation police.", give us a break! From Mikael Varandian's "History of Dashnaktsoutioun":
"After the (Russo-Turkish H.) war the situation got even worse...a landscape of destruction and horrors unfolded before the eyes of the Armenians, the like of which Ottoman Armenia had not seen in centuries.
Ottoman Armenians had performed their duty to the Ottoman State with utmost loyalty. 20-30,000 Armenians had toiled like actual beasts of burden, carrying cannons and ammunition to remote places and generally doing the heaviest labor. The state had plundered the Armenian people, they had taken everything to cover the costs of the war... Not a single protest, not one Ottoman Armenian volunteer in the Russian army, not a single uprising among the Armenians of the Caucasus, and despite all of this the Ottoman Armenia was subjected to immeasurable destruction, carnage, pillage, atrocities by the irregular Turkish forces and Kurds, hundreds of villages burned to cinders, desecrated churches and monasteries, lawlessness, fear and terror, disorder and migration... Inhabitants of entire provinces evacuated and moved towards the Russian border, where the inevitable calamities, hunger and disease were awaiting tens of thousands of refugees."

In Erzurum, for example, British consular officials reported that the Armenian police chief appointed by the Russians and his Armenian force "molested, illtreated, and insulted the Mohammadan population," and that 6,000 Muslim families had been forced to flee the city. When the Russians left part of their conquest at least 25,000 Armenians joined them, fearing the vengeance of the Muslims. The largest migration though was the forced flight of 70,000 Muslims, mainly Turks, from the lands conquered by the Russians and the exodus of Laz in 1882.

An account of monthly atrocities in Van from the September 30th, 1871 issue of the Armenian paper "Mamoul":
"It's almost impossible to mention the criminal acts that happened this month one by one... As well as all counts of rape, among the victims a seven year old girl raped by a Turk, to humiliate our nation. As a result a number of people have come to the conclusion that it's advisable to consider conversion... At least that can be considered as a kind of freedom... In Van they (Turk and Kurd bandits) Attack, kill, burn, rape, plunder whenever they feel like it..."

An account of a sitting of the Ottoman Parliament is recorded in the July 19th, 1877 issue of "Masis", an Armenian paper published in Constantinople, where the representative of Karin, Hamazasp Ballarian has spoken about the Kurdish issue:
"When I asked the governors why the Kurds weren't punished, for which purpose two army battalions would suffice, instead, they were allowed to inflict atrocities without restrictions, they answered me that there was a hikmeti hokumet (state secret, hidden wisdom) in this. I finally figured out what that secret was. It is to crush any possible Armenian uprising by the Kurds. Also, in case of a war against Russia, the Kurds can be used as a volunteer force to aid the Ottoman army."

Because of the "Armenian police chief appointed by the Russians and his Armenian force...6,000 Muslim families had been forced to flee the city". Wow! It's true that there were Armenian officers in the Russian army (at least there they didn't have to function as beasts of burden, who would YOU choose between the two?), but the objective scholar who takes all the "facts" into account, fails to distinguish between Armenians living under different tyrannies.

Supporting the myth that Turks and Armenians lived like brothers and had equal rights (some Armenians were more equal than the Turks!), the professor of revisionism wouldn't like to examine "Armenia and the Campaign of 1877" by Charles Boswell Norman, a reporter of the English Times, where he describes the bestialities committed against the Armenians by the Turks and the Kurds, emphesizing that "The subject is too painful to need any coloring". He describes the pillage and the carnage done in Bayazed, Van, Bitlis, Alashkert, etc. See also Emil Dilo's accounts of the time.

It's noteworthy that the shameless, brazenfaced liars have dared to misuse this actual person and have attributed a ficticious manuscript allegedly written by Norman and kept in "The Institute of the Turkish Revolution" (of all places! And not in Britain for instance) that condemns the Armenians! How pathetic.

By 1900, approximately 1,400,000 Turkish and Caucasian Muslims had been forced out by Russians. One third of those had died, either murdered or victims of starvation and disease. Between 125,000 and 150,000 Armenians emigrated from Ottoman Anatolia to Erivan and other parts of the Russian southern Caucasus.

What is the fault of Armenians that "One third of those had died, either murdered or victims of starvation and disease"?
The blackened, hateful "heart" of the scumbag cannot let him utter the word Armenia... No way, Armenians didn't have the right to live anywhere on this planet, neither in "Eastern Anatolia" nor in "Russian southern Caucasus". How objective and non-selective...

This was the toll of Russian imperialism. Not only had one-and-a-half million people been exiled or killed, but ethnic peace had been destroyed.

The "philosopher" in the "historian" muses... Go on, take it out on the Armenians...Didn't you know they were responsible for the earthquake on the moon?

The Muslims had been taught that their neighbors, the Armenians, with whom they had lived for more than 700 years, might once again become their enemies when the Russians next advanced. The Russians had created the two sides that history teaches were to be expected in conflict and mass murder.

The pig has some imagination... Justify genocide, it's the right punishment for the Armenians who had suffered 900 years of Turkish barbarity and had given everything they had including their genes, who had almost built the Ottoman "Empire", who had pioneered every single possible idea in every imaginable cultural, economical, industrial, architectural field. "...that history teaches were to be expected in conflict and mass murder", some English!

The actions of Armenian rebels exacerbated the growing division and mutual fear between Muslims and Armenians of the Ottoman East.

The uprising of the Armenians, much later than all the other subjects of the Ottoman Tyranny, even those less culturally developed, was a natural evolution of circumstances. It resulted in the liberation of a small portion of the historic Armenian homeland and it saved the Armenian nation from total annihilation, much to the dismay of the Turkish phallus eating historian.

The main Armenian revolutionary organizations were founded in the 1880s and 1890s in the Russian Empire. They were socialist and nationalist in ideology. Terrorism was their weapon of choice. Revolutionaries openly stated that their plan was the same as that which had worked well against the Ottoman Empire in Bulgaria. In Bulgaria rebels had first massacred innocent Muslim villagers. The Ottoman government, occupied with a war against Serbs in Bosnia, depended on the local Turks to defeat the rebels, which they did, but with great losses of life. European newspapers reported Bulgarians deaths, but never Muslim deaths. Europeans did not consider that the deaths were a result of the rebellion, nor the Turk's intention. The Russians invaded ostensibly to save the Christians. The result was the death of 260,000 Turks, 17 percent of the Muslim population of Bulgaria, and the expulsion of a further 34 percent of Turks. The Armenian rebels expected to follow the same plan.

Oh, poor Ottoman "Empire", how just and humane you were that after all the good you had done, your ungrateful "subjects" revolted against you and demanded that your filthy paws be kept away from their pillaged and ruined homelands... I'd like to know what this swine thinks of the "Democracy" rhetoric his imperialist state preaches to the "savage" world all the time to satiate its limitless greed for oil. This "scholar" never seems the need to inquire the how and why of the presence of these "Muslims" in those Christian countries?

**imported_Hellektor** · 11-24-2005, 05:18 PM

A Rebuttal of Injust McFarty's "Essay", the Revisionist's Bible 5

The Armenian rebellion began with the organization of guerilla bands made up of Armenians from both the Russian and Ottoman lands. Arms were smuggled in. Guerillas assassinated Ottoman officials, attacked Muslim villages, and used bombs, the nineteenth century's terrorist's standard weapon. By 1894 the rebels were ready for open revolution. Revolts broke out in Samsun, Zeytun, Van and elsewhere in 1894 and 1895. As in Bulgaria they began with the murder of innocent civilians. The leader of the Zeytun rebellion said his forces had killed 20,000 Muslims. As in Bulgaria the Muslims retaliated. In Van for example 400 Muslims and 1,700 Armenians died. Further rebellions followed. In Adana in 1909 the Armenian revolt turned out very badly for both the rebels and the innocent when the government lost control and 17,000 to 20,000 died, mostly Armenians. Throughout the revolts and especially in 1894 and 1897 the Armenians deliberately attacked Kurdish tribesmen, knowing that it was from them that great vengeance was not that likely to be expected. Pitched battles between Kurds and Armenians resulted.

"In Van for example 400 Muslims and 1,700 Armenians died... the government lost control and 17,000 to 20,000 died, mostly Armenians." Confession is good for the soul, if creatures of the species to which the "professor" belongs have a soul. Now I would like to know the meaning of "losing control", if it's anything other than what happens to psychopathic murderers.

From "The Key Distortions and Falsehoods in the Denial of the Armenian Genocide", by Zoryan Institute:

The Redundancy of the Argument of Armenian Rebelliousness

The four instances of uprising were not only isolated, local, and disconnected incidents but, above all, they were improvised, last-ditch acts of desperation to resist imminent deportation and thereby avert annihilation. Being strictly defensive undertakings, practically all of the insurgents involved perished in the course of the operations regular Turkish army units launched against them to suppress the insurgency. By sheer chance and fortuitous circumstance only the insurgents of the Van uprising managed to survive when at last they were liberated by the advance units of the Russian Caucasus Army, which overwhelmed the surrounding Turkish defense positions and captured the city of Van. The term "chance" calls for emphasis, for but for the timely arrival of the Russian military units, the insurgents of Van were likewise doomed, given the inevitable depletion of their meager resources of defense, including ammunition and weapons, and the mounting casualties they were sustaining. A delay of two or three days in the arrival of the Russians would surely have sealed the fate of the desperate defenders. The following testimony of Vice Marshal Pomiankowski, mentioned above, (the preceding section of the article H.) succinctly encapsulates this plight of the Armenians. He characterized the Van uprising as "an act of despair" because the Armenians "recognized that the general butchery had begun in the environs of Van and that they would be the next victims."3 A similar judgment was expressed by Metternich, German ambassador to Turkey, and a Venezuelan military officer of Spanish extraction who was in charge of the artillery battery relentlessly bombarding and reducing the Armenian defense positions in Van. His eyewitness testimony has extraordinary value because, as he put it, he was "the only Christian who witnessed the Armenian massacres and the deportations in an official capacity...."4

3. Joseph Pomiankowski, Der Zusammenbruch des Ottomanischen Reiches (The collapse of the Ottoman Empire). Graz, Austria, 1969, p. 160.

4. German Foreign Ministry Archives, A.A. T�rkei 183/40, A25749, September 18, 1916 report, p. 25. This source contains Ambassador Metternich's reference. For the Venezuelan officer's account, see Rafael de Nogales, Four Years Beneath the Crescent. M. Lee, trans. New York: Scribner's, 1926, pp. 1, 72-97.

But it all went wrong for the Armenian rebels. They had followed the Bulgarian plan, killing Muslims and initiating revenge attacks on Armenians. Their own people had suffered most. Yet the Russians and Europeans they depended upon did not intervene. European politics and internal problems stayed the Russian hand.

Take out the intentional falsification "killing Muslims and initiating revenge attacks on Armenians", as if the Turks had done nothing but deliver cookies to the Armenians for 900 years, and the above paragraph becomes a true account of the fate of the Armenians.

What were the Armenian rebels trying to create? When Serbs and Bulgarians rebelled against the Ottoman Empire they claimed lands where the majorities were Serbs or Bulgarians. They expelled Turks and other Muslims from their lands, but these Muslims had not been a majority. This was not true for the Armenians.

This has already been rebutted in previous sections.

The lands they covered were overwhelmingly Muslim in population.

The lands they COVERED, the excrement that covers the entire putrefied cadaver of the hypocrite, has entirely obstructed his "view".

The only way they could create an Armenia was to expel the Muslims. Knowing this history is essential to understanding what was to come during World War I. There had been a long historical period in which two conflicting sides developed.

The only way the Turks could realize their diabolical plan of uniting the savages in the Ottoman "Empire" with their nomadic kin in the steppes of Central Asia was to "expel" the indigenous Armenians from their homeland of thousands of years. Stop copycatting and replacing "Turks" with "Armenians" in your version of "history" if you cannot come up with something more original.

Russian imperialists and Armenian revolutionaries had begun a struggle that was in no way wanted by the Ottomans. Yet the Ottomans were forced to oppose the plans of both Russians and Armenians, if only to defend the majority of their subjects. History taught the Ottomans that if the Armenians triumphed not only would territory be lost, but mass expulsions and deaths would be the fate of the Muslim majority. This was the one absolutely necessary goal of the Armenian rebellion.

"Armenian revolutionaries" were the scourge of "Russian imperialists", how come the slime ball doesn't mention this, I wonder?
The despicable manner in which the despicable falsifier justifies genocide and depicts the Ottoman Tyranny as a benevolent state doing what was most rightful to do, is so sickening that doesn't need any comment.

The preview to what was to come in the Great War came in the Russian Revolution of 1905. Harried all over the Empire, the Russians encouraged ethnic conflict in Azerbaijan, fomenting an inter-communal war. Azeri Turks and Armenians battled each other when they should have attacked the Empire that ruled over both. Both Turks and Armenians learned the bitter lesson that the other was the enemy, even though most of them wanted nothing of war and bloodshed. The sides were drawn.

You dried morsel of rat defecation, Azerbaijan had yet to be artificially inseminated between Turkish phallus and Russian Bolshevik anus in 1918. "Azeri Turks" refers to a fictitious "nation" that has never existed in history. Azari was referred to the language spoken in the real Azarbaijan (Aturpatekan) northwest of Iran by Arab historians, and it was a dialect of Persian Pahlavi language. Later, when the region was turkified under Iranian dynasties of Turkic origin, the appellation still designated the language (by then Turkish) of the people.

**imported_Hellektor** · 11-24-2005, 05:22 PM

A Rebuttal of Injust McFarty's "Essay", the Revisionist's Bible 6

A summary of the Armenian-Tatar clashes of 1905 from Varandian's "History of Dashnaktsoutioun"

The non-selective historian refers vaguely to the Armenian-Tatar clashes in 1905-1906 confirming yet again the genocidal nature of the Tatars (later to "redefine" themselves as "Azeris").

The Tatars of the Caucasus, especially the upper classes: the khans, the land owners, the begs and aghas, who were used to seeing Armenians as loyal slaves that didn't dare raise their heads, had preserved certain privileges even under Russian rule, and had usurped vast areas of fertile land in Russian Armenia, couldn't stand the rapid progress of the Armenians in cultural and commercial fields. Although there were no clashes, the tension was palpable. The jealous hatred of Armenians manifested itself most obviously in Baku, where the "elite" of the Tatar community was centered, among which the bourgeois, the rich and the influential, fanatical clergy that received its fuel for hate speeches from Constantinople.
The Armenians that had migrated to Baku in 1880's, had engaged in buying oil wells from the Tatars along with Russians, Jews and Europeans, and as a result of their industriousness, had rapidly succeeded and in less than thirty years they occupied the highest posts in the oil producing council and other international companies. Consequently, this drew large numbers of Armenian laborers and businessmen from other eastern Armenian provinces. This was unbearable for the Tatars, whose majority were backward, fanatical, illiterate and untalented in business.
Another reason was the struggle of the Armenians the other side of the border to liberate their homeland, along with the demonstrations and revolt in the Caucasus against the Czarist state. This had stupefied the Tatars that had always viewed the Armenians as effeminate and coward slaves who shook before the Turks and the Persians. They now imagined that the same Armenians would someday, after the fall of the Czarist regime, establish their independent homeland and oppress the Tatars. Therefore they started spreading myths, the same way the sham professor does today, about the Armenian "conspiracy".
Not surprisingly the Tatar elite took the side of the Czarists in those days of Russian revolutionary movement. They thought it an opportune moment to crush the revolution and the Armenian hopes by joining forces with the Armenian hating Czarist state.
Unable to compete with the Armenians in the cultural and commercial fields, the Tatars opted, like their kin in Constantinople, for their much loved and preferred method, physical extermination.
They armed and incited the mobs in Baku, the Russians providing the arms themselves. Hand in hand they "trained" the criminal elements, spread lies about imminent attacks by Armenian Committees and succeeded in this provocation despite the fact that the Turks were the majority in Baku. Thus, the Tatars were already confident that any atrocities against the Armenians would go unpunished and that the government was also on their side. The clergy on the other hand, fueled the religious fanaticism of the backward mobs and invited them to jihad against the Armenians that were going to attack Islam and explode their mosques!
The desired pretext didn't come a minute too late. Early February 1905, a group of Russian soldiers were transporting Ashurbegov, a Turkish criminal, from court to prison. The convict tried to escape. The Russians, among whom an Armenian soldier, opened fire and by sheer chance, it was the bullet from the Armenian soldier's gun that killed the criminal. The Turks took notice and cried havoc and decided to take revenge on Armenians. A couple of days passed.
On 6th of February Armenians had gathered in the Armenian church yard. The soldier was among them. A Tatar called Babayev approached and shot and wounded him. The Armenians caught Babayev and handed him to the police, but he got away. Some Armenian youth followed him and caught and killed the offender. This triggered the bloody clashes...

**imported_Hellektor** · 11-24-2005, 05:24 PM

A Rebuttal of Injust McFarty's "Essay", the Revisionist's Bible 7

For non-Armenian accounts of the conflict, below is a sample from Luigi Villari's "Fire and Sword in the Caucasus"

"In 1858 an attempt was made to extract petroleum from the crude naphtha, and in 1863 the first refinery was founded by the Armenian Melikoff. Armenians were indeed the pioneers of the industry, although Russians and foreigners soon rushed to Baku in large numbers.
The trade of Baku, especially the shipping trade, is wholly in Tartar hands, and M. Taghieff, who laid the foundations of his fortune by selling a plot of petroliferous land, owns a whole fleet of steamers ; the money-lenders are also all Tartars. But in spite of their wealth and the business ability of a few of them, the great majority are mere primitive savages. To the Armenians above all is the development of Baku due (emphasis is mine H.), for they were the first to work the oil-fields on a large scale and on modern lines ; they perform a large part of the skilled labour, and among them most of the managers, engineers, as well as many capitalists, are to be found. The British public supplied a considerable share of the capital invested, and there are several Englishmen and other foreigners in prominent positions. The roughest unskilled work (chornaya rabota) is performed by the Tartars, Lezghins, and Persians ; the skilled work by the Armenians and Russians ; the management by Armenians, Russians, and foreigners. Lately, since the disorders, many of the Armenian and Tartar workmen fled, and there has been a considerable influx of Russians in consequence.

...The Tartars have always considered Baku as a Tartar city. The Tartar khans have ruled it for centuries, the great bulk of the native population of the whole province is Tartar, and the general character of the country until the recent influx of foreigners was mainly Tartar and Mohammedan. But the Armenians, with their superior education, their greater intelligence and push, have acquired an increasing influence in the town and the industry (emphasis is mine H.), and have edged the Tartars out of many professions.
One fact which struck me very forcibly during my stay at Baku was the extreme bitterness of the foreign element against the Armenians ; its sympathies, save in two or three instances, seemed wholly on the side of the Tartars.
...Quite apart from the greater personal charm of the Moslem over the Armenian, the views of foreign financiers and managers are greatly influenced by the fact that they are in close commercial competition with the Armenians. (emphasis is mine H.)
...Then, since the Government instituted persecutions against them and their Church, they indulged in political agitation, which, if not primarily directed against the capitalists, did cause them loss by disturbing the general conditions of the town. This explains the attitude of the foreigners, and accounts for their bitterness against the Armenians. One prominent Englishman said to me that he would be glad to see the whole Armenian nation wiped out! (emphasis is mine H.)

Prince Golytzin, who had been busy carrying out his anti-Armenian policy, had a few weeks before executed the confiscation of the Church property ; in October his life was attempted. Early in 1904 Prince Nakashidze, a Georgian noble, who as Vice-Governor of Erivan had been actively implicated in the said confiscation, was appointed Governor of Baku. His arrival coincided with a recrudescence of Armeno-Tartar hostility...
...the hatred of the two races increased, and the Governor did nothing to reconcile them. On the contrary, he was perpetually talking of an Armeno-Tartar pogrom as imminent; he openly encouraged the Tartars, and treated the Armenians with marked coldness... (emphasis is mine H.)

Early in February a Tartar shopkeeper named Gashum Beg, who had assaulted several Armenian boys and girls, was attacked by an Armenian and wounded, but he succeeded in killing his assailant. He was subsequently arrested, and as he was trying to escape a soldier of the escort, also an Armenian, shot him dead. The assailant proved to be a member of the revolutionary committee, but the Armenians deny that that association ordered him to kill Gashum Beg, and state that he had been deputed to do so by the family of one of the boys he had assaulted. A relative of Gashum Beg's, a rich Tartar named Babaieff, determined, according to the Tartar custom of vendetta, to avenge him, and a few days later tried to shoot an Armenian in the courtyard of the church, who had been pointed out to him as the man who had killed Gashum Beg ; but he failed, and in the �meute which ensued, another Armenian killed him. This deed caused great excitement in the town, and Prince Nakashidze summoned some Armenian journalists to his Chancery, and delivered them a long discourse on the dangers of an Armeno-Tartar pogrom. He declared that if the Tartars did rise against the Armenians he would be powerless to defend them, as he had not enough troops, and the police were unreliable, many of them being Tartars. In fact one of the said Armenians told me that parts of this speech corresponded almost word for word with the report which the Governor made after the massacre, which suggests that he had foreseen the whole affair.

The body of Babaieff was carried in procession through the Tartar quarter, and exposed to view. Had Prince Nakashidze wished to prevent trouble he would have stopped the procession (emphasis is mine H.); the sight of the murdered man roused the Moslems to fury, and on the 19th of February they proceeded to massacre every Armenian they came across (emphasis is mine H.). The Armenians defended themselves as best they could, but the Tartars were much more numerous and better armed. The authorities remained absolutely passive, and to the frenzied appeals for help which Prince Nakashidze was constantly receiving from hard-pressed Armenians besieged in their own houses, he replied that he had no troops and could do nothing, although as a matter of fact he had 2,000 men. He was seen driving about the town openly encouraging the Tartars, and slapping them on the back; and on one occasion, happening to see some too officious soldiers disarming a Tartar, he ordered them to give the man back his rifle, which of course they did ! M. Adamoff, one of the richest Armenians in Baku, was besieged for three days in his own house, and being a first-rate shot he killed a number of his assailants with his own hand; at last he and his son were shot dead, the Tartars set fire to the house, rushed in and butchered all the inmates. A similar fate befell Lalaieff, another rich Armenian, who defended himself until ammunition gave out, after which his house was burnt and the whole household killed. To his appeals for help the Governor made no reply, but came himself when all was over.

...The Armenians, however, took vengeance into their own hands, and on May 24th Prince Nakashidze was blown up by a bomb. As for his own guilt in this matter there can, I think, be no doubt whatever.

...The impunity of the Baku massacres encouraged the Tartars in other parts of the country. An account of the outbreak at Nakhitchevan, which was the outcome of the Baku disturbance, will be given in another Chapter...."

And the story goes on and on, until Sumgait, Baku and Gandzak massacres in our day and age.

**imported_Hellektor** · 11-24-2005, 05:25 PM

A Rebuttal of Injust McFarty's "Essay", the Revisionist's Bible 8

In late 1914, inter-communal conflict began in the Ottoman East with the Armenian rebellion. Anatolian Armenians went to the Russian South Caucasus for training, approximately 8,000 in Kagizman, 6,000 in Igdir and others elsewhere. They returned to join local rebels and revolts erupted all over the East. The Ottoman Government estimated 30,000 rebels in Sivas Vilayeti alone, probably an exaggeration but indicative of the scope of the rebellion. Military objectives were the first to be attacked.

"probably an exaggeration..." most definitely an exaggeration. Why shouldn't the Armenians have the right to liberate their homeland from centuries long Turkish Yoke? Were they less cultured or less deserving than Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbs, etc. who got their freedom? What is the reason for this level of self-righteousness coming from the Genocide deniers?

Telegraph lines were cut. Roads through strategic mountain passes were seized. The rebels attacked Ottoman officials, particularly recruiting officers, throughout the East. Outlying Muslim villages were assaulted and the first massacring of Muslims began. The rebels attempted to take cities such as Zeytun, Mus, Sebin Karahisar and Urfa. Ottoman armed forces which were needed at the front were instead forced to defend the interior.

The blatant lie is so thin that one doesn't know what to say. According to the decision of the Bureau at the eighth General Assembly of Dashnaktsoutioun in 1914, the bodies were ordered not to rebel against the Ottoman "empire".

From Ruben's "Armenian-Turkish problem":

"...despite the slaughter of 25,000 Armenians in Cilicia, Dashnaktsoutioun decided to remain calm and tried to demand that the Constitution be put to practice... But the Turkish leaders were walking along a new path that was more delusional... In 1912 Turkey was embracing a new ideal... Pan-Turanism... to turkify Turkey was the main reason that the non-Muslim and non-Turkish elements were being deported, persecuted and massacred in the country, and Turks were being settled in their places...

When, after having received facts and data from Germany and Bulgaria, they came to the conclusion that regardless of the position the Armenians took, the extermination of the Armenians, the intellectuals first, had already been planned all the same...
Dashnaktsoutioun (8th General Assembly) ordered its bodies to collaborate with the Turkish government and be with them even in the event of war (emphasis is mine H.). As a mature political organization, sensing the dire situation of the state, helped it, issuing orders to the provinces inviting the people to be loyal to Turkey (emphasis is mine H.) and as a conscientious nation, perform their citizen's duty. Talat Pasha was using Dashnaktsoutioun's loyal stand through Vardges, constantly sending telegrams to Van, Moosh and elsewhere to advise everyone to prevent any misunderstanding and to have patience to bear any bitterness without complaint.

All the Armenians of Erzerum embraced the recruitment, they were paying all the extra military taxes, they were tolerating every form of deprivation and plunder, refraining from any, although justified, objection and resistance.
In Van, there has been no serious undertaking by Tahsin Bey, before and mainly during the war, without the active collaboration of Dashnaktsoutioun (emphasis is mine H.)...
The people of Moosh and Sassoon, like the Armenians of Turkish vilayets, have been utterly loyal in the early stages of the war and have been extremely helpful to the state and the army...
Being aware of Dashnaktsoutioun's role, Servet Bey, the Mutisarrif of the time has turned to Dashnaktsoutioun time and again for help and he has got it.

They had organized:
1. A recruitment body that would go to Armenian villages to convince and encourage the youth.
2. Koryun's commission was charged to arrest and hand over the deserters.
3. Haji of Koto's commission transported supplies as far as Leez, Kop and Ghzl-Kyatuk.
4. Gegham of Erzerum's commission (Red Crescent) had engaged all the women and men incapable of fighting in diverse tasks."

So much for the garbage, repeated ad nauseam, that the Armenians, led by the Dashnaks collaborated with the Russians and stabbed "their" nation in the back.

The most successful rebel action was in the city of Van. In March 1915 they seized the city from a weak Ottoman garrison and proceeded to kill all the Muslims who could not escape. Some 3,000 Kurdish villagers from the surrounding region were herded together into the great natural bowl of Zeve, outside the city of Van, and slaughtered. Kurdish tribes in turn took their revenge on any Armenian villagers they found.

See "The Redundancy of the Argument of Armenian Rebelliousness" above.

Part II: Popular opinion today knows of only one set of deportations, more properly called forced migrations, in Anatolia, the deportation of the Armenians. There were in fact many forced migrations. For the Armenians, the worst forced migrations came when they accompanied their own armies in retreat. Starvation and disease killed great numbers of both, far more than fell to enemies' bullets.

It is true (if truth is illusive, that is. H.) that the Ottomans had obvious reason to fear Armenians, (with their entire army, the Ottoman officers in every remote corner of the "empire", the Kurdish bandits with license to kill, steal, rape and plunder; and all that after the battle-ready men had already been "recruited" and executed. H.) and that forced migration (read genocide. H.) was an age-old tool in Middle Eastern and Balkan conflicts. It is also true that while its troops were fighting the Russians and Armenians (with their army of millions! Or the "scholar" forgot that he said "estimated 30,000 rebels in Sivas Vilayeti alone, probably an exaggeration" above. Liars are forgetful indeed. H.), the Ottoman Government could not and did not properly protect the Armenian migrants (poor Ottoman Government... It breaks my heart into 1.5 million pieces. H.). Nevertheless, more than 200,000 of the deported Armenians reached Greater Syria and survived (out of over two million, 200,000 (according to the "historian") survived the barbecue in the Syrian desert. H.) Those who see the evil of genocide in the forced migrations of Armenians ignore the survival of so many of those who were deported. (Those who are unable to see that survivors of the Genocide, who witnessed the rape, plunder, torture, mutilation and slaughter of their loved ones in front of their eyes and took their pain to their graves without seeing justice, are also victims of genocide and suffer much longer than the dead, are insensitive, antipathetic bastards. H.) They also ignore the fact (the ignoramus has yet to present ONE, SINGLE FACT. H.) that the Armenians who were most under Ottoman control, those in Western cities such as Izmir, Istanbul, and Edirne, were neither deported nor molested, presumably because they were not a threat (this argument is so fallacious that it's not worthy of a layman Turk to bring it up. A third rate historian would think twice before fabricating such garbage, because except the cities mentioned where there was a strong foreign presence, Armenians throughout the Ottoman Tyranny were massacred and "deported". H.) If genocide is to be considered, however, then the murders of Turks and Kurds in 1915 and 1916 must be included in the calculation of blame. (There was no STATE PLANNED killing of those and casualties of war, however great and painful (cf. millions of Germans and over 25 million Russians died in WWII) don't count as genocide victims and the "historian" knows it. H.) The Armenian molestations and massacres in Cilicia (What? You mean the 25000 Armenians slaughtered in 1909 in Cilicia? H.), deplored even by their ("their"!!! You said Armenia never existed??? H.) French and British allies, must be judged. And the exile or death of two-thirds of the Turks of Erivan Province, the Armenian Republic, during the war must be remembered. (The shameless liar knows that the incidents in 1918-1919 were the consequence of thousand years of genocide. Armenians also have the right to have a corner on this planet to call their home, especially when that corner is just 10% of their historic homeland, 90% of which is already under Turkish occupation after total ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Armenians.

**imported_Hellektor** · 11-24-2005, 05:27 PM

A Rebuttal of Injust McFarty's "Essay", the Revisionist's Bible 9

Historical principles were once again at work. Rebels had begun the action and the result was the creation of two warring sides. After the Armenian deeds in Van and elsewhere, Muslims could only have expected that Armenians were enemies who could kill them. Armenians could only have feared Muslim revenge. Most of these people had no wish for war, but they had been driven to it. It was to be a merciless conflict.

Redundancy... See "The Redundancy of the Argument of Armenian Rebelliousness" above.

Besides, why should Armenians always bend their necks to the Turkish scimitar? Shouldn't for once, the Armenians defend themselves against the INVADING, UNWANTED, LOATHED and DESPISED occupiers and destroyers of their own homeland? Has ANY protestation of another occupied nation EVER been condemned as much as these sporadic, desperate self-defense acts of Armenians? WHY the double standards? Are Armenians less RIGHT in their just cause than the Palestinians or the Vietnamese or the Partisans or the Iraqis... or Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbs, Greeks and all the other nations suffering under the Ottomans?

For the next five years, total war raged in the Ottoman East. When the Russians attacked and occupied the East, more than a million Muslims fled as refugees, itself an indication that they expected to die if they remained. They were attacked on the roads by Armenian bands as they fled. When the Russians retreated it was the turn of the Armenians to flee. The Russians attacked and retreated, then attacked again, then finally retreated for good. With each advance came the flight of hundreds of thousands. Two wars were fought in Eastern Anatolia, a war between the armies of Russia and the Ottomans and a war between local Muslims and Armenians. In the war between the armies, civilians and enemy soldiers were sometimes treated with humanity, sometimes not. Little quarter was given in the war between the Armenians and the Muslims, however. That war was fought with all the ferocity of men who fought to defend their families.

"...They were attacked on the roads by Armenian bands as they fled...". The "professor" should change "profession" and become a story-teller, not a good one, mind you. Proof mofo, proof!

I need to see a pre Genocide document or map that calls Armenia "Eastern Anatolia". If the falsifier cannot produce a proof then he should wash his filthy mouth. Proof mofo, proof!

Popular opinion today knows of only one set of deportations, more properly called forced migrations, in Anatolia, the deportation of the Armenians. There were in fact many forced migrations. For the Armenians, the worst forced migrations came when they accompanied their own armies in retreat. Starvation and disease killed great numbers of both, far more than fell to enemies' bullets. This is as should be expected from historical principles; starvation and disease are always the worst killers. It is also a historical principle that refugees suffer most of all.

Principle, principle, principle... "This is as should be expected" so no one's guilty. The prof. is a genius. By the way, if the armed to their teeth Armenian rebels were mere defenseless "refugees", as the sorry excuse for a lowlife states, then why were they being deported in the first place?

One of-the many forced migration was the organized expulsion of Armenians from much of Anatolia by the Ottoman government. In light of the history and the events of this war, it is true that the Ottomans had obvious reason to fear the Armenians, and that forced migration was an age-old tool in Middle Eastern and Balkan conflicts. It is also true that while its troops were fighting the Russians and Armenians, the Ottoman Government could not and did not properly protect the Armenian migrants. Nevertheless, more than 200,000 of the deported Armenians reached Greater Syria and survived. (Some estimate that as many as two-thirds of the deportees survived.)

The "excuse" that genocide and ethnic cleansing was an age-old tool worsens the case of the Defender of the Turk even more and is a proof that the Armenian Genocide of 1915 was one among countless others carried out by the "benevolent" Ottomans.
"...the organized expulsion of Armenians from much (=all) of Anatolia by the Ottoman government." means GENOCIDE.

"Some estimate that as many as two-thirds of the deportees survived." Would the "truth seeking" "principled" charlatan cite one or two historic sources for this claim?

Those who see the evil of genocide in the forced migrations of Armenians ignore the survival of so many of those who were deported. They also ignore the fact that the Armenians who were most under Ottoman control, those in Western cities such as Izmir, Istanbul, and Edirne, were neither deported nor molested, presumably because they were not a threat.

No claim of genocide can rationally stand in the light of these facts. (Not if one is as irrational as this learned sage. H.) If genocide is to be considered, however, then the murders of Turks and Kurds in 1915 and 1916 must be included in the calculation of blame. The Armenian murder of the innocent civilians of Erzincan, Bayburt, Tercan, Erzurum, and all the villages on the route of the Armenian retreat in 1918 must be taken into account. The Armenian molestations and massacres in Cilicia, deplored even by their French and British allies, must be judged. And the exile or death of two-thirds of the Turks of Erivan Province, the Armenian Republic, during the war must be remembered.

See the box above

**imported_Hellektor** · 11-24-2005, 05:29 PM

A Rebuttal of Injust McFarty's "Essay", the Revisionist's Bible 10

That is the history of the Conflict between the Turks and the Armenians. Only when that history is known can the assertions of those who accuse the Turks be understood.

The defender of the Turkish Cause doesn't "seem" to know that history.

In examining the claims of Armenian nationalists, first to be considered should be outright lies.

Does this guy speak English? The sentence is so asinine that needs no comment.

The most well-known of many fabrications on the Armenian Question are the famous "Talat Pasa Telegrams," in which the Ottoman interior minister and other officials supposedly telegraphed instructions to murder the Armenians. These conclusively have been proven to be forgeries by Sinasi Orel and Sureyya Yuca. However, one can only wonder why they would ever have been taken seriously. A whole people (some eloquent English! H.) cannot be convicted of genocide on the basis of penciled scribblings on a telegraph pad.

The genocide of "a whole people" cannot be denied "on the basis of penciled scribblings on a telegraph pad" being "proven" to be forgeries, by a couple of Turks, originals of which none of them have ever seen.

These were not the only examples of words put in Talat Pasa's mouth. During World War I, the British Propaganda Office and American missionaries published a number of scurrilous works in which Ottoman officials were falsely quoted as ordering hideous deeds.

And the vile rascal assumes the authority to "advise" people not to go and consult the eyewitness accounts.

One of the best examples of invented Ottoman admissions of guilt may be that concocted by the American ambassador Morgenthau. Morgenthau asked his readers to believe that Talat Pasa offhandedly told the ambassador of his plans to eradicate the Armenians. Applying common sense and some knowledge of diplomatic practice helps to evaluate these supposed indiscretions. Can anyone believe that the Ottoman interior minister would actually have done such a thing? He knew that America invariably supported the Armenians, and had always done so. If he felt the need to unburden his soul, who would be the last person to whom he would talk? The American ambassador. Yet to whom does he tell all? The American Ambassador! Talat Pasa was a practical politician. Like all politicians, he undoubtedly violated rules and made errors. But no one has ever alleged that Talat Pasa was an idiot. Perhaps Ambassador Morgenthau knew that the U.S. State Department would never believe his story, because he never reported it at the time to his masters, only writing it later in a popular book.

Dismiss a valuable document just by assuming you know Talat pasha and what he would or would not say. Lazy researcher. The "objective" scholar is asking his readers to believe his garbage without reading Morgenthau's accounts. "Can anyone believe that" this poor sod is "applying common sense and some knowledge of diplomatic practice" to discourage the uninformed readers? America wasn't invariably supporting the Armenians, just like any country, it was/is always considering its own interests. Besides, America was neutral during WWI, how surprising that the revisionist "doesn't know" this.
The sophism this Sherlock Holmes is employing is so thin and transparent that a teenager won't buy it. Is this his applying of historical principles?
I wonder why the non-selective historian is forgetting the copious correspondence of German consuls, for instance that of Wangenheim, with their government...

The use of quotes from Americans is selective. One American ambassador, Morgenthau, is quoted by the Armenian apologists, but another American ambassador, Bristol, is ignored. Why? Because Bristol gave a balanced account and accused Armenians as well as Muslims of crimes.

Armenian apologists... Where does this xxxxx copy his ideas from? Accused Armenians? What, he was a prosecutor or something?
Morgenthau was in Turkey during the Genocide whereas Admiral Bristol, became U.S. High Commissioner in Turkey after WWI and came to Turkey in 1920.

This quote may shed some light on the man's objectivity and honesty:
"The Armenians are a race like the Jews, they have little or no national spirit and poor moral character." Admiral Mark L. Bristol, U.S. High Commissioner to Turkey.
One wonders at the tactics of this impostor who on one hand bases his case on Armenian nationalism and on the other hand cites this fellow, who denies the Armenians any national character, as a reliable source to prove his garbage.

The most often seen fabrication may be the famous "Hitler Quote." Hitler supposedly stated, "Who after all is today speaking of the destruction of the Armenians?" to justify his Holocaust. The quote now appears every year in school books, speeches in the American Congress and the French Parliament and most writings in which the Turks are attacked. Professor Heath Lowry has cast serious doubt on the authenticity of the quote. It is likely that Hitler never said it. But there is a more serious question: How can Adolf Hitler be taken as a serious source on Armenian history? Were his other historical pronouncements so reliable that his opinions can be trusted?

Whether Hitler said this decades after the Armenian Genocide or not doesn't change the FACT that the Genocide happened. Besides, the "professor" says "It is likely that Hitler never said it", as his mentor, prof. Lowlife "cast serious doubt on the authenticity of the quote". Here, just like in Talat's case the "lawyer" assumes he knew Hitler, the apprentice of Talat, Jemal and Enver, personally. His "more serious question" is as misleading as his conclusions. To mention the Armenian Genocide doesn't mean one is a SOURCE on Armenian history or not.

Politically, "Hitler" is a magic word that conjures up an all too true image of undisputed evil. He is quoted on the Armenian Question for polemic and political purpose, to tie the Turks to Hitler's evil. In the modern world nothing defames so well as associating your enemies with Hitler. This is all absurdity, but it is potent absurdity that convinces those who know nothing of the facts. It is also a deliberate distortion of history.

Assuming that the Hitler quote is a fabrication without PROVING it, is total and impotent absurdity that caresses the ego of the deniers of the Armenian Genocide and those who do not want to know anything of the facts. Which Armenian history book, written in the course of the last 1600 years has the "historian" EVER read?

Population has also been a popular field for fabrication. Armenian nationalists had a particular difficulty -- they were only a small part of the population of the land they planned to carve from the Ottoman Empire. The answer was false statistics. Figures appeared that claimed that Armenians were the largest group in Eastern Anatolia. These population statistics were supposedly the work of the Armenian Patriarch, but they were actually the work of an Armenian who assumed a French name, Marcel Leart, published them in Paris and pretended they were the Patriarch's work. Naturally, he greatly exaggerated the number of Armenians and diminished the number of Turks. Once again, the amazing thing is that these were ever taken seriously. Yet they were used after World War I to justify granting Eastern Anatolia to the Armenians and are still routinely quoted today.

From whose land was the Ottoman "Empire" carved?
The Turks were the indigenous "people" of Asia Minor and the Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians came thousands of years later... Once again read what Tavernier said in the 17th century (from Tokat to Tabriz� it's not surprising to come across fifty Armenians for every single Muslim) and tell us how come in the 20th century, the Armenians weren't the largest group. If they weren't, then what happened to them? Turks and their defenders always say that Turks and Armenians lived happily ever after for centuries...

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A Rebuttal of Injust McFarty's "Essay", the Revisionist's Bible

A Rebuttal of Injust McFarty's "Essay", the Revisionist's Bible

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