Armenians: Suffering or Genocide?

[Hovik]

Here is what Deborah Lipstadt has to say about it:

"Those who deny genocide always dismiss the abundance of documents and testimony as contrived or coerced, or as forgeries and falsehoods. Free speech does not guarantee the deniers the right to be treated as the "other" side of a legitimate debate when there is no credible "other side;" nor does it guarantee the deniers space in the classroom or curriculum, or in any other forum."

[Kharpert]

Globalpolitician has not yet responded to my rebuttal.

[Tongue]

I truly support my friend Ixtanbul because of his courage (which these fools certainly do not have.) I have nothing to say over here because Ixtanbul has said it all and the Armenians don't have any correct proofs to prove it wrong.

What exactly do you consider "proof"?

P.S: If you have the guts, swear in English my friends, you seem to lack the courage to challenge a Turk to a decent argument. Act like men and try to prove yourselves right. You obviously cannot but trying never hurts. Just like your desire to conquer Eastern Anatolia.

It has nothing to do with having guts, it's funnier when in Armenian.. trrrrust me. and as if, you were gonna jump on them over the internet.

And you're saying we lack the courage to challnege a Turk? and what do you call this? 68 pages of challenge my friend. Go read, it'll answer a lot of your questions.

PS you were also challenged here . I'm still waiting for your logical explanation for that 523,000 claim you made.

[imported_Armenian]

As morons within the Armenian community continue discussing geo-political issues with Turks, they on the other hand continue to do the following:



Pro-Turkish militants denounce Armenians, Russians

A frightening video-taped threat has shocked Armenian residents in Akhaltsikhe, a city in Georgia's Samtskhe Javakhetia region.

In a videotaped warning, armed and masked militants claiming to be part of the Akhaltsikhe Liberation Brigade stood before a Turkish flag chanting "Allahu Akbar" ("god is great" -- a Muslim war-cry) after a statement was read threatening a reprise of the 1915 Turkish genocide of the Armenians. “All who stand in our way will die. We will not allow mentioning of you here. The land of Akhaltsikhe will become ours soon. All who don’t hear us now will regret they were born. Leave your property for us and run. You and your ancestors should remember the year of 1915. Russians will not help you. Their time is up on our land. We have warned you, this is our last warning. Go and live or stay and die.”



Azerbaijan continues the destruction of Armenian cultural heritage upon historical Armenian lands. During the month of December, the Azerbaijani government sent approximately 200 soldiers into Nakhichevan to systematically destroy 'Hin Chougha's' 400 year old cemetery, which is adjacent to the river Arax.

Information in Russian: http://www.livejournal.com/users/amatuni/63534.html

Video made from Iranian side: http://clips1.vimeo.com/video_files/...imeo.37011.wmv

More photos:

http://www.cathcil.org/v04/doc/Photos/Pictures109.htm

http://www.cathcil.org/v04/doc/Photos/Pictures109-.htm

[TurQ]

A nice theater by Russians. They know Armenians are easity to manipulate and provoke, they do such things. They did in Baku and Karabag to provoke Armenians, they were successful. Now they are provoking Armenian community in Georgia. No wonder this coincides with start of new railroad and oil pipeline project..

As morons within the Armenian community continue discussing geo-political issues with Turks, they on the other hand continue to do the following:



Pro-Turkish militants denounce Armenians, Russians

A frightening video-taped threat has shocked Armenian residents in Akhaltsikhe, a city in Georgia's Samtskhe Javakhetia region.

In a videotaped warning, armed and masked militants claiming to be part of the Akhaltsikhe Liberation Brigade stood before a Turkish flag chanting "Allahu Akbar" ("god is great" -- a Muslim war-cry) after a statement was read threatening a reprise of the 1915 Turkish genocide of the Armenians. “All who stand in our way will die. We will not allow mentioning of you here. The land of Akhaltsikhe will become ours soon. All who don’t hear us now will regret they were born. Leave your property for us and run. You and your ancestors should remember the year of 1915. Russians will not help you. Their time is up on our land. We have warned you, this is our last warning. Go and live or stay and die.”



Azerbaijan continues the destruction of Armenian cultural heritage upon historical Armenian lands. During the month of December, the Azerbaijani government sent approximately 200 soldiers into Nakhichevan to systematically destroy 'Hin Chougha's' 400 year old cemetery, which is adjacent to the river Arax.

Information in Russian: http://www.livejournal.com/users/amatuni/63534.html

Video made from Iranian side: http://clips1.vimeo.com/video_files/...imeo.37011.wmv

More photos:

http://www.cathcil.org/v04/doc/Photos/Pictures109.htm

http://www.cathcil.org/v04/doc/Photos/Pictures109-.htm

[imported_Armenian]

A nice theater by Russians. They know Armenians are easity to manipulate and provoke, they do such things. They did in Baku and Karabag to provoke Armenians, they were successful. Now they are provoking Armenian community in Georgia. No wonder this coincides with start of new railroad and oil pipeline project..

Yeah, sure...

And them Russian dressed up about two hundred of their men as Azeri Turks in Nakhijevan and video taped them smashing Armenian Crossstones in order to provoke Armenian.

Right???

You turds are a funny bunch.

We did not need Russian "provocation" concerning Artsakh (NKR). We Armenians were demanding our lands back ever since Stalin put them under Azeri control. Also, we Armenian began demanding Artsakh in 1987 - when the Soviet Union were actively helping the Azeris in order to stop us.

Go educate yourself and then come back.

[TurQ]

I am not talking about Nahjivan, I was talking about the flag theater.
For Nahjivan I cant support what they are doing, what I can say is hatred breeds hatred. You guys do not recognize Azeri TUrkish existence and rights in Nahjivan , KArabag and in Armenia. It is hard to expect Azeris to do the same. I cant support what they are doing, what Armenians are doing is no different. Today can we talk about any Turkish and Muslim heritage preserved in Armenia? May be a few traces to give Iran a friendly salute, thats it. You still think KArabag being only Armenian, the same will extend to Georgia, whats next? THis is the mentality to isolate Armenia in the region which is a Russian policy. It is up to you to live under Russian shadow, and if you like it you should stop living in US and move to Armenia. SPeaking is easy and cheap..

Yeah, sure...

And them Russian dressed up about two hundred of their men as Azeri Turks in Nakhijevan and video taped them smashing Armenian Crossstones in order to provoke Armenian.

Right???

You turds are a funny bunch.

We did not need Russian "provocation" concerning Artsakh (NKR). We Armenians were demanding our lands back ever since Stalin put them under Azeri control. Also, we Armenian began demanding Artsakh in 1987 - when the Soviet Union were actively helping the Azeris in order to stop us.

Go educate yourself and then come back.

[Joseph]

I am not talking about Nahjivan, I was talking about the flag theater.
For Nahjivan I cant support what they are doing, what I can say is hatred breeds hatred. You guys do not recognize Azeri TUrkish existence and rights in Nahjivan , KArabag and in Armenia. It is hard to expect Azeris to do the same. I cant support what they are doing, what Armenians are doing is no different. Today can we talk about any Turkish and Muslim heritage preserved in Armenia? May be a few traces to give Iran a friendly salute, thats it. You still think KArabag being only Armenian, the same will extend to Georgia, whats next? THis is the mentality to isolate Armenia in the region which is a Russian policy. It is up to you to live under Russian shadow, and if you like it you should stop living in US and move to Armenia. SPeaking is easy and cheap..

TurQ, since everyone is playing realpolitick, the only alternative Armenia has is to keep up relations with Russia and Iran and relatively warm relations with the U.S. You don't expect Armenian would suddenly become buddies with Turkey? Why should they trust them? Turkey may have had a chance to be a honestbroker around 1990/91 but they missed and opportunity.Let' s face it, there are no honestbrokers or altrusitc states in the region and as we see violence begets violence. It is a shame.

[TurQ]

Joseph

I am not expecting Armenia to be buddies in a minute with Turkey.
But there is a tendency in Armenian nationalist politics (be it in diaspora or be in Armenia)to derail any relations with Turkey. Although I believe Turkey is 100% right for the embargo, we can gradually lift it up and build relations.

Yes violence begets violence. This is why at least we should have some kind of relations face to face, diplomatically. At this point we are dealing each other thru 3rd parties. This is not healty, as you said there are no honestbrokers, and these 3rd parties use this situation for their own benefit.
Lets face it, Russia does not want to give up its interests in Caucusia, and only entity in Caucusia is Armenia who would help Russian interests. Russians will just use them. I think Turkey is much more reliable neighbour than Russia. Russia would crush Armenia if Armenians do not obey them. This is not true for Turkey. It is Turkey's interest to have stable region. We have enough trouble in middle east, we had in Balkans, Caucusia is the other one. For our own good we need a stable Caucusia which includes stable relations with Armenia.

President Turgut Ozal built in 1992 a regional economic collaboration program for the countries in Black sea balkans and Caucusia. Armenia was a member of that program too. It was really a promising program. Levon Ter Petrosyan had a hope in that too. Unfortunetly this program was not carried out after Turgut Ozal's death in 1993. This could have normalizing effect on our relations, than the Karabag problem complicated things, now Georgian Armenians are next.

Lets face it Russia will complicate thing for its own benefit. They can burn down whole caucusia if they cant control there so they will keep on creating wars and tensions in caucusia..

TurQ, since everyone is playing realpolitick, the only alternative Armenia has is to keep up relations with Russia and Iran and relatively warm relations with the U.S. You don't expect Armenian would suddenly become buddies with Turkey? Why should they trust them? Turkey may have had a chance to be a honestbroker around 1990/91 but they missed and opportunity.Let' s face it, there are no honestbrokers or altrusitc states in the region and as we see violence begets violence. It is a shame.

[Kharpert]

TurQ, if you are curious to find muslim influence in Armenia and Karabagh, you should consider the Govhar-Aga mosque in Shusha, the Blue Mosque, the Mosque of Agdam, et. al. Armenians haven't viciously hacked historical artifacts apart, and considering that Armenia is 98% Armenian and Karabagh is 95% Armenian, it's almost amazing that those Mosques have remained standing through a war.

If you're somehow trying to imply that the Azeri destruction of any trace of Armenians is justified, you should know that Armenians have and are not returning the favor.

And personally, I don't think anyone has any reason to be believe that three Turkish shmucks in ski masks represent the Republic of Turkey. This is like saying ASALA represented the Republic of Armenia.