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Edited. Thanks for the heads up.
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The article which ASALA gave a link to was written by Hayk Demoyan and Levon Melik-Shakhnazaryan. Why do you think Armenians are going to be neutral about the atrocities they commited?Originally posted by Kharpert
And for Hellektor's post, i don't really care what Armenians or Azeris that didn't live the event think on the issue. Thats why i quoted how the foreign press gave the news, you should read it.
I read about Armenian thoughts on the 1915 events constantly but this thread is about the Azeri Genocide, i'd rather we discussed that issue in this thread.No, that is absolutely false in every sense of the word. Everyone, even the Turkish government, knows that Armenians were "relocated" (massacred, actually) into the Der Zohr desert in Syria. You obviously have not studied the Armenian Genocide. I'm going to refer you to this link so that you can learn the history. Racism, slander, Genocide denial and/or support is expressly prohibited. Questions and challenges for historical purposes are welcome, but outright denial of any prevalent Genocide (be it Armenian, Jewish, Sudanese) will result in the immediate explusion from the forum, never to return. If you feel you need to slander the Armenian state or express baseless accusations, these forums are not for you.
I gave the Nobel Prize example to show how the enemy of Atatürk that wared him on the battlefield felt about him. Or else i too know the Nobel Prize Awards are full of crap.p.s.
Nobel Prize Nominations are handed out to almost anyone. Not long ago the nomination was given to Tookie Williams, the founder of one of the largest street gangs in the United States (the Crips). Tookie Williams was given the death sentence soon after.Comment
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Hellektor's post consists almost entirely of Azeri sources, NOT Armenian sources. Also, if you refuse to believe something on basis that the author is Armenian, you're just flaunting your ignorance. Perhaps I should ignore you because you are Turkish?Comment
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Turks turn Armenian websites into server mirrors for their garbage
IT Was You Who Did It
Mods, if you want to ban me, go ahead. But this garbage is waaaaaay too much to take.
This disgusting filth doesn't want to see that "Azerbaijan" is a fake nation illegaly occupying Armenian territory and destroying thousand year old Armenian heritage to "hide" its genocidal acts.Originally posted by Ixtanbul
I won't answer this filth because it's all been answered in my post.
Mutalibov and Heydar Aliev have admitted that it was they who did it.
I'll just repeat my question to this barbarian:
Why did you kill Chingiz Musatfayev?
As far as "Azeris" killed by the members of their species is concerned:
No big deal. Get over it.
It was war... People diedFour things denialist Turks do when they are confronted with facts:
I. They change the subject [SIZE="1"](e.g. they copy/paste tons of garbage to divert attention).[/SIZE]
II. They project [SIZE="1"](e.g. they replace "Turk" with "Armenian" and vice versa and they regurgitate Armenian history).[/SIZE]
III. They offend [SIZE="1"](e.g. they cuss, threaten and/or mock).[/SIZE]
IV. They shut up and say nothing.
[URL="http://b.imagehost.org/download/0689/azerbaijan-real-fake-absurd.pdf"][COLOR="Red"]A country named Azerbaijan north of the Arax River [B]NEVER[/B] existed before 1918[/COLOR][/URL]Comment
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Ixtanbul,
Why do you want to highlight the atrocities of the Azeri government? It doesn't seem like it would be in your interests... Anyway, your perogative, right? Here are some sources for you about how Azeri opposition members organized the massacre of their own people:
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TurQ, please do a little reading:
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Did Already long time ago.
You and other Armenians here do know that thats done by Armenians.
And everybody knows that they were killed for vengeance for 1915 events. Everybody knows that they were killed to scare away other Azeris in and around Karabag to finish up the ethnic cleansing.
Hellektor also knows this very well. and he is actually not hiding his opinions about Azeris are doing a big mistake for daring to live on Hisotrical Armenian lands. And he says this not only for Karabag but for all the lands where Azeris live.
So if Azeris are doing a mistake, current day Turks and Kurds do the same mistake for living on historical homeland according to him. Behind all these there is the anger of Turks living on Armenian lands described by Armenians(as if Armenians in history all the time lived in ethnically pure lands)
If you are into information war, I am not into that. I am posting this just because you would be concerned about the human side of this tragedy.
Originally posted by HovikComment
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I have a final exam, so this is my last post for 24 hours
TurQ, the point is that many of the Azeri accusations are double-standards; they are overstated, misleading, and sometimes blatantly false. Calling the entire issue a Genocide is a horrible desecration of the term, while ignoring the Azeri massacres conducted NOT on battleground territory but far away from the battle front in the capital city and surrounding cities.
And I wouldn't doubt that, over the course of the war, many Azeri and Armenian civilians in Karabagh lost their lives, but in a state of war and considering that all the battles took place in Karabagh itself this is something that should've been expected from the beginning and avoided. Yes, we did invade Khojali, but isn't it common sense that when you know the battle front is heading towards a village you first evacuate the village?
Consider the Vietnam war; every day the Viet Cong would terrorize and kill American soldiers while dressed as friendly civilians in villages. One day American soldiers would see a 5 year old peasant boy, the next second the boy would throw a grenade at them. Well, how could these American soldiers, who are obviously scared for their own lives, take the time to morally reason and decide how to treat civilians directly in the line of fire?
It is unrealistic to think that civilians directly on the battlefield can be considered safe.
EDIT:
Oh, and before anyone even thinks about talking of "payback" or "reparations", keep in mind that techincally Karabagh and Azerbaijan are still in a state of war; they only have a timed cease fire. Neither Azerbaijan, nor Karabagh are paying back anything anytime soon.Comment
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Istanbul, Turq and you other Genocide deniers, I just want to start out by saying that if you actually believe any of the things that you posted here in this thread, then you're all dumber than dirt. Now I don't think you're dumber than dirt, and I don't think you believe what you're writing. At least if you were dumber than dirt I could have some sympathy for you.
You hypocrits constantly whine about not having enough evidence that the Turkish leaders of the Ottoman Empire intended to destroy the Armenian people. This despite the enormous amount of evidence that suggests they did intend to annhilate the Armenian people: official dispatches from German and Austrian leaders in the Ottoman Empire at the time; official dispatches from U.S. and Italian diplomats stationed in the Ottoman Empire at the time; eyewitness accounts from Turkish and German soldiers, Swiss, German, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Austrian, and American missionaries, all "miraculously" saying the exact same thing; the recorded testimony of Turkish officials who confessed to this crime; official TURKISH statistics from 1916 confirming that 800,000 Armenians had already been directly killed, and the list goes on and on. Basically, the only thing we don't have is a video-taped confession from Talaat. Yet, despite all of that; despite the fact that within a span of 3 years, almost the entire population of Armenians from the Ottoman Empire were ERASED, despite the fact that almost every Genocide expert in the world confirms that it was a Genocide, you idiots still refuse to accept this fact. And if that was not enough, you come here, to a forum designed to discuss the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE, and you allege that the death of 600 Azeris in Khojaly was a Genocide. Where is your evidence douchebags?! Show me one independent witness who saw what went down while it was going down? Show me one iota of evidence that the Armenian GOVERNMENT ordered the destruction of the Khojaly Azeris? On the contrary, there is a confession from the Azeri leader at the time, that it was in fact, Azeri opposition forces who were against him that committed this crime. Yet, you somehow have no problem taking enormous leaps and bounds in logic to call it a Khojaly Genocide, while requiring a time machine into Talaat's office as he writes the destruction orders to accept that your ancestors intentionally and ruthlessly exterminated the Armenian people.
As for freedom of speech, there is no such thing as freedom of speech in a private forum idiots! I used to have these same discussions with Turks in a Turkish forum, and virtually every Armenian who gave the Armenian viewpoint was banned. Where is the freedom of speech in Turkish forums, huh?
Given that there is no factual basis for your ideas, and that they are irresponsibly groundless, I would have no problem deleting this thread and banning you for "inciting ethnic hatred." If you don't know what that means, review the Turkish penal code . . . douchebags! And if you don't know what douchebag means, ask one of your parents; they should know since at least one of them must have married a douchebag in order to procreate you douchebags!Comment
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We dont need or ask for your sympathy.Istanbul, Turq and you other Genocide deniers, I just want to start out by saying that if you actually believe any of the things that you posted here in this thread, then you're all dumber than dirt. Now I don't think you're dumber than dirt, and I don't think you believe what you're writing. At least if you were dumber than dirt I could have some sympathy for you.
First,we have our own proof about Genocide claims in Turkey. You can ask the eastern population of Turkey what Armenians did and did not in eastern front.You hypocrits constantly whine about not having enough evidence that the Turkish leaders of the Ottoman Empire intended to destroy the Armenian people. This despite the enormous amount of evidence that suggests they did intend to annhilate the Armenian people: official dispatches from German and Austrian leaders in the Ottoman Empire at the time; official dispatches from U.S. and Italian diplomats stationed in the Ottoman Empire at the time; eyewitness accounts from Turkish and German soldiers, Swiss, German, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Austrian, and American missionaries, all "miraculously" saying the exact same thing; the recorded testimony of Turkish officials who confessed to this crime; official TURKISH statistics from 1916 confirming that 800,000 Armenians had already been directly killed, and the list goes on and on. Basically, the only thing we don't have is a video-taped confession from Talaat. Yet, despite all of that; despite the fact that within a span of 3 years, almost the entire population of Armenians from the Ottoman Empire were ERASED, despite the fact that almost every Genocide expert in the world confirms that it was a Genocide, you idiots still refuse to accept this fact. And if that was not enough, you come here, to a forum designed to discuss the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE, and you allege that the death of 600 Azeris in Khojaly was a Genocide. Where is your evidence douchebags?! Show me one independent witness who saw what went down while it was going down? Show me one iota of evidence that the Armenian GOVERNMENT ordered the destruction of the Khojaly Azeris? On the contrary, there is a confession from the Azeri leader at the time, that it was in fact, Azeri opposition forces who were against him that committed this crime. Yet, you somehow have no problem taking enormous leaps and bounds in logic to call it a Khojaly Genocide, while requiring a time machine into Talaat's office as he writes the destruction orders to accept that your ancestors intentionally and ruthlessly exterminated the Armenian people.
We, Turkish people never deny that we killed, took out Armenians. Yes, also children and old people count also as I said many times before it is war, civilians are killed, soldiers are killed
Second, you are right, killing of Azeris does not amount of genocide in anyway. It is war, civilian casualities are expected. Who is dead is dead and gone by. The problem is land that is under Armenian occupation. In fact I would not have much trouble about the land also since Azeri Turks in fact lost the battle despite our support from behind. Armenians were backed by Russians also but still at the end of the day it was Armenian's who gained on.
Still we need that piece of land which belongs to state of Azerbaijan to connect to Asia-Turkic Republics directly. Oh yes we may be building railroads, pipelines trade routes bypassing Armenia, but we certainly wish to hold the authority ourselves only in our dealings with Asia.
I dont see how a Turkish forum who banned you for speaking your mind can actually make you think that we are against freedom of speech," idiot"?As for freedom of speech, there is no such thing as freedom of speech in a private forum idiots! I used to have these same discussions with Turks in a Turkish forum, and virtually every Armenian who gave the Armenian viewpoint was banned. Where is the freedom of speech in Turkish forums, huh?
If you think that you must ban me, do it already. If you think that is the right course of action to take, just ban me. But do not ever complain about Turks being undemocratic, Turks are not aware of freedom of speech crap.....Given that there is no factual basis for your ideas, and that they are irresponsibly groundless, I would have no problem deleting this thread and banning you for "inciting ethnic hatred." If you don't know what that means, review the Turkish penal code . . . douchebags! And if you don't know what douchebag means, ask one of your parents; they should know since at least one of them must have married a douchebag in order to procreate you douchebags!
Your pathetic attempt to insult us, is just that pathetic...Comment
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