ASALA:Was it really necessary?

[Kharpert]

It is obvious ALL of your arguments are canned

I, at least, make critical arguments. You, on the other hand, have spent most of your time on these forums by trolling other members. I'm resisting throwing childish insults at you because I don't want to stoop to your level.

Now stop thinking you're some big hero and back off.

[1.5 million]

Kharpet - don't bother yourself with this neanderdal - he and others like him are no more then a distraction from the real issues - a waste of time and effort.

[imported_RUDO]

Where did you get that horse manure? Nizkor?

Denialism is denialism, it is not a subset of NOTHING. It makes me sick when Armenians try to parrot and mimick jews talking about their fairy tales. Don't do it.

It is obvious ALL of your arguments are canned arguments and you are totally and completely unable to think, much less speak, for yourself. Frankly, we don't need people incapable of their own throughts or words on our side. You do more harm than good.

I think you shouldn't think that only your thought is true.We all have diffrent ideas so we are here to discuss like Kharpert.Your words to Kharpert are offending I think.You should be polite to people.

[imported_RUDO]

Emmmmmmm...So the poll's result will be ''YES''?

[phantom]

TurQ,

I have nothing against individual Turks, I don't hate them even though I'm not a big fan too. I don't consider the Turk, any Turk as my enemy... that's totally not the case. You need to understand that even if some Armenians are angry( I don't say hate) with Turks, they don't mean the person but the beliefe....

The indifference of Turks toward matters of Armenians are the obstacle in the way of communication between the two... Turks need to understand that their history book have missing chapters, one of which was the Armenian Genocide, I don't blame the regular Turk for not knowing about that, or for blindly follow their national pride in refusing to listen to what Armenians are saying.... I don't blame you for not being sure about the Armenian Genocide although you can find tons of documents that prove it without doubt, and I certainly don't hate you for that...

What I do want to explain to you is that, I (as a person) can not accept to compromise... maybe I see things as black an white, because I clearly can see the truth that you still see in gray!

Armenian Genocide of 1915/16 is a Historical Fact. It might hurt you or other Turks to know that, I'm sure... But regardless of what your national pride make you think, that Historical Fact remain as it is... therefore, you need to think outside the box that your government put you in, you need to have your own mind, you need to dig facts for yourself and decide for yourself ...


Why you still don't see the Truth TurQ ?
We are communicating here, and you were around for few months and you still refuse to see the facts, Why is that ?
Do you think that Turko-Armenian dialoug will be fruitfull ? Then how come your dialoug with the Armenians , here and in this forum did not make any difference ? Neither you managed to convince us with anything nor you managed to open your eyes to the facts that we are proving !

What do you still need the dialoug for?! Don't you think that it's just a waste of time?

honestely TurQ, why can't you see the truth yet? Tell me !

TurQ, Maral makes an excellent point here. On a personal level, has your experience here made you more empathetic, less empathetic, more distrustful, less distrustful, more fond, less fond, etc. of Armenians?

As for me, to be honest with you, I grew up not knowing the difference between a Turk and an Armenian. For most of my young life, when a stupid American would ask where I was from and I said Turkey and then had to defend myself against the sound of gobbling, you can imagine that I felt quite Turkish. But having witnessed the attitude of most Turks over the past few years on these chat forums, I must say that I don't feel closer to Turks, I feel further away from them. I am in favor of dialog, but in my own experience, dialog has not helped. What about you?

[TurQ]

Phantom

May be these kind of forums are not the best places to get in touch with Armenians or vice a versa. Since the topic is emotional for both sides, it can suddenly errupt and turn into personal conflicts. In terms of communication theory this kind of interaction is the least effective means of communication.

As I said before I had not have the chance to grow up with Armenians, my dad and grandad did, I know Armenians from them, and I had 2 professors in my colege thats it. I have nothing against a person just because he/she is Armenian. And as far as the Turkish/Istanbul Armenians concerned, I see them our own and our people, and I am saddened to see them when some(in this case you) begin to distance themselves from us. I always thought that Turkish Armenians at least can bear for sometime because in my opinion they are the only ones can build a bridge between the two, beacuse they know both sides very well.
Anyways, I was thinking that you are personally feeling that alliniation. Obviously the harsh words that you use is an indicator of that. When I have seen few times tthat you are trying to convince just one person and spend time for it I was really saddened. As if you are trying to find at least one person to understand you. I can understand how could it feel when you get an adverse response. But in my humble opinion this is not the best way or the only way. I can only ask you not to generalize your experience and your perception. And really these kind of forums are not the best places. It really gives an opportunity to behave irresponsibly. That's why I didnt allow my perceptions for Armenians be effected by the tone of such discussions.

My experience tells me that this topic should be avoided at least by avarage people, and at least for a certain amount of time when Armenians and Turks can get togather and speak these in more peaceful ways and not using aggressive words. And I also have a firm idea that we are not politicians or such and we are mostly ordinary people, speaking or disputing this topic will not ever be productive. But we ordinary people can do something else, can build non-political(be it cultural, education etc) relations, that will help community leaders or politicians to start a dialogue.

TurQ, Maral makes an excellent point here. On a personal level, has your experience here made you more empathetic, less empathetic, more distrustful, less distrustful, more fond, less fond, etc. of Armenians?

As for me, to be honest with you, I grew up not knowing the difference between a Turk and an Armenian. For most of my young life, when a stupid American would ask where I was from and I said Turkey and then had to defend myself against the sound of gobbling, you can imagine that I felt quite Turkish. But having witnessed the attitude of most Turks over the past few years on these chat forums, I must say that I don't feel closer to Turks, I feel further away from them. I am in favor of dialog, but in my own experience, dialog has not helped. What about you?

[TurQ]

It is hard to say something on this, because I try not to get any perception from this kind of internet based discussions. But overall(mainly the diaspora) I think they are one of the closest nations to us, but at the same time so distant as if they are beyond "Kaf Dagi" the mount of Kaf, or nirvana. About trusting, I dont know, in this kind of places it is hard to have decision on this. In ordert to trust there has to be some kind of relations, you cant know otherwise. But I can say I sometimes feel uneasy to hear some certain racial slurs and land claims. I am not generalizing it and may be most of them are coming out of anger or out of insecurity probably, I dont know. I try to see the positive sides, at least knowing that there are Armenians with positive attitudes is comforting and promising for future.

And again I am sorry to see that you feel that way. It seems that I personally have some share and I am sorry about this. In a discussion I cant say something I dont believe but at the same time I hate to see that a Turkish Armenian feel aliniated, especially one who is a decendant of a family like yours.

TurQ, Maral makes an excellent point here. On a personal level, has your experience here made you more empathetic, less empathetic, more distrustful, less distrustful, more fond, less fond, etc. of Armenians?

As for me, to be honest with you, I grew up not knowing the difference between a Turk and an Armenian. For most of my young life, when a stupid American would ask where I was from and I said Turkey and then had to defend myself against the sound of gobbling, you can imagine that I felt quite Turkish. But having witnessed the attitude of most Turks over the past few years on these chat forums, I must say that I don't feel closer to Turks, I feel further away from them. I am in favor of dialog, but in my own experience, dialog has not helped. What about you?

[imported_RUDO]

Phantom,I feel like you.I try to support turks(only democratic ones).But while supporting I see that they despise my nation and me.So I also feel far from Turks.

[Joseph]

Phantom

May be these kind of forums are not the best places to get in touch with Armenians or vice a versa. Since the topic is emotional for both sides, it can suddenly errupt and turn into personal conflicts. In terms of communication theory this kind of interaction is the least effective means of communication.

As I said before I had not have the chance to grow up with Armenians, my dad and grandad did, I know Armenians from them, and I had 2 professors in my colege thats it. I have nothing against a person just because he/she is Armenian. And as far as the Turkish/Istanbul Armenians concerned, I see them our own and our people, and I am saddened to see them when some(in this case you) begin to distance themselves from us. I always thought that Turkish Armenians at least can bear for sometime because in my opinion they are the only ones can build a bridge between the two, beacuse they know both sides very well.
Anyways, I was thinking that you are personally feeling that alliniation. Obviously the harsh words that you use is an indicator of that. When I have seen few times tthat you are trying to convince just one person and spend time for it I was really saddened. As if you are trying to find at least one person to understand you. I can understand how could it feel when you get an adverse response. But in my humble opinion this is not the best way or the only way. I can only ask you not to generalize your experience and your perception. And really these kind of forums are not the best places. It really gives an opportunity to behave irresponsibly. That's why I didnt allow my perceptions for Armenians be effected by the tone of such discussions.

My experience tells me that this topic should be avoided at least by avarage people, and at least for a certain amount of time when Armenians and Turks can get togather and speak these in more peaceful ways and not using aggressive words. And I also have a firm idea that we are not politicians or such and we are mostly ordinary people, speaking or disputing this topic will not ever be productive. But we ordinary people can do something else, can build non-political(be it cultural, education etc) relations, that will help community leaders or politicians to start a dialogue.

I agree that these forums are about the last place you'll find people engaging in rational dialouge although there are some definite exceptions on this board. This forum attracts mostly nationalists from both sides and ugliness from both sides as well. It's a thoroughly ugly situation and I really don't know how it will ever get better.

[imported_RUDO]

But how can we communicate in an other way?(Turks-Armenians).Is there any other oppurtinity for us?