Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Young Turk Ethnic composition according to Zürcher (exerpt)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Young Turk Ethnic composition according to Zürcher (exerpt)

    The Young Turks – Children of the Borderlands?

    Erik Jan Zürcher (Universiteit Leiden)
    [October 2002]

    In...1889, a group of young students in the army medical school founded a secret committee, which would later become known as the Committee of Union and Progress (İttihat ve Terakki Cemiyeti, C.U.P.)...

    Between 1889 and 1896 this C.U.P. slowly gained adherents, primarily within the Ottoman bureaucracy.

    ....from 1905. Newly arrived activists reorganised the émigré movement into a far more effective force, with a cell structure and secure communications, while in 1906 in Salonica, an independent group of conspirators, some of whom had been members of the C.U.P. before 1896, founded a secret committee, which, within two years, managed to gain an important following among the officers of the Ottoman garrisons in the Balkans.

    In spite of their enormous importance in the modern history of Turkey, the social, geographical and ethnic background of the Young Turks remains largely unstudied.

    After the C.U.P.’s victory in the constitutional revolution, thousand, possibly even tens of thousands joined it, but we have little or no information about this membership. At the same time, however, the leadership of the movement was in the hands of a relatively small group of people, not more than a hundred or so, about whom we can know quite a bit.

    Within that leadership we can discern several groups. First of all, the leaders of the opposition movement against the rule of sultan Abdülhamid between 1889 and 1908. This group includes the founders of the movement at the Military Medical School in 1889 and the early members as well as those Young Turks, who kept up the publicity campaign against the sultan’s autocracy from Paris, Geneva or Cairo. Some, but not all, of these re-emerged in the second group, that of the members of the Central Committee of the C.U.P., which was the most powerful political body in the Ottoman Empire from the constitutional revolution of 1908 until the defeat in World War I ten years later. A third group is that of the administrators or party bosses (governors, inspectors, party secretaries (or in the terminology of the C.U.P. “responsible secretaries”), who were entrusted by the leadership with the control over provinces and cities. Finally, we have the activist, politicised army officers, who ultimately gave the C.U.P. its power through their influence in the army and who came to the rescue each time the C.U.P.’s hold on power was threatened. Some of these held formal positions in the Committee and even served on the Central Committee but most did not. As the Turkish independence movement after World War I, led by Mustafa Kemal Pasha (the later Atatürk) was also completely dominated by former C.U.P. members, we could also include the members of the leadership of this movement, the “Representative Committee” and the commissars of the first Great National Assembly in Ankara among the leading C.U.P. cadres whose background we want to investigate, but for the purposes of this article I have left these post-World War I leaders out of consideration.

    The “typical” Young Turk

    On the basis of the biographies of these leading Young Turks it is possible to discern a number of shared characteristics, which together make up a “typical Young Turk profile”. They were males and they were Muslims (with the exception of one single Sabbataic Jew or dönme)[14] of different ethnic backgrounds: Turk, Arab, Albanian, Kurd or Circassian. Their social background varied (some of them being sons of landowners, others of great dignitaries or generals, yet others sons of small-time civil servants), but it was urban and literate, with most fathers being in the service of the Ottoman state.

    Let us first of all look at...the founders and early members in the period between the start of the Young Turk movement in 1889 and its suppression in 1896. This is a group of 20 persons, whose origins were as follows:



    İstanbul
    2

    Balkans
    7 (this includes 2 from provinces lost in 1878)

    Aegean
    3 (Rhodes, Smyrna and Crete)

    Arab provinces
    2

    Kurdistan
    2

    Caucasus
    4 (all from the Russian Empire).

    Anatolia
    0




    Of the seven actual founders themselves, four came from the Russian Caucasus, one from the Albanian area in the Western Balkans and two from Kurdistan. Ethnically, not one was an Ottoman Turk. Surely, it is not an exaggeration to say that this is highly significant. It suggests that the fundamental questions regarding identity and loyalty were being asked earlier among the non-Turkish Muslim communities than among the ethnic Turks (but later than among the Christian communities of the empire).

    The second group in our population, that of the members of the Central Committee (Heyeti Merkeziye) between 1908 and 1918 breaks down as follows:



    İstanbul
    4

    Balkans
    11

    Aegean
    4 (Lesbos, Crete, Smyrna, Milas)

    Arab provinces
    0

    Kurdistan
    1

    Caucasus
    1

    Anatolia
    4 (excluding Aegean coast and Kurdistan)

    Unknown
    6




    The group of most prominent politically active officers, who obviously form a less strictly circumscribed category than the members of the Central Committee, have their birthplaces in the following areas:



    İstanbul
    8

    Balkans
    11

    Aegean
    1 (Smyrna)

    Arab provinces
    0

    Kurdistan
    0

    Caucasus
    0

    Anatolia
    1

    Unknown
    5

    The predominance of the southern Balkans as origin especially of the post-1908 leaders, civilian and military, is clear. 48 percent of them came from this relatively small part of the empire, with another 26 percent born in the capital. 11 percent came from the islands and coast of the Aegean, while the vast Asiatic possessions of the empire taken together produced only 13 percent of the second-generation leadership. Within the general category of “Balkans” three areas stand out: Salonica, the area from Monastir (Bitola) to Ohrid and the area around Prishtine (modern Kosovo). The number of military officers hailing from the Western Ottoman Balkans is especially remarkable: 11 out of 21, which compares to one from the Aegean and one from Anatolia.

    Fathers of Turkish nationalism

    A slightly different pattern emerges when we look at one special category among the Young Turks – those who, as writers and teachers, contributed to the emergence of Turkish nationalism. If we look at this group, which comprises Mehmet Ziya Gök Alp (1876-1924), Tekin Alp (real name: Moise Cohen, 1883-1961), Yusuf Akçura (1876-1933), Hüseyinzade Ali Turan (1864-1941), Ahmet Ağaoğlu (1869-1939)and Mehmet Emin Yurdakul (1869-1944), we are struck by one remarkable phenomenon: not one of them hails from an area with a solid Ottoman-Turkish majority. Four of them were born in the Russian Empire (one in Kazan, the others in the Caucasus region), one in a part Turkish, part-Kurdish family in Kurdistan and one in a Jewish family in Macedonia. It would seem that in each case, their awareness of the problems of national identity was sharpened by the fact that they grew up in ethnically mixed areas where Turks were a minority (as in the case of Gök Alp and Tekin Alp) or where Turks lived under Russian domination (in the case of the others). This is perhaps not surprising. As we saw in the case of the founders of the C.U.P, young intellectuals belonging to Muslim communities outside the dominant Ottoman-Turkish one, were sensitised earlier to problems of identity and political loyalty.

    when the secret committee that would bring about the constitutional revolution of 1908, was founded in Salonica in 1906, it accepted Ottoman Muslims without question, but non-Muslims only in exceptional cases after screening. The Young Turks developed a fierce Ottoman-Muslim nationalism, which defined the “other” very much in religious terms. In the years that followed, particularly between the outbreak of the Balkan War in 1912 and the end of the Turkish independence struggle in 1922, the Muslim – Non-Muslim divide would completely dominate politics and lead to the tragedies of the expulsion of Muslims from the Balkans and Greek-Orthodox from Anatolia, as well as to the wholesale slaughter of the Ottoman Armenians.

    Most of the Young Turk officers also served in the Balkans, with the Third Army in the West or the Second Army more to the East.
    Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?
    Adolf Hitler (22 August 1939)

  • #2
    Not.
    [SIZE="3"]First Rule of Battle: [COLOR="Red"] KNOW[/COLOR] [COLOR="Blue"]YOUR[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]ENEMY[/COLOR][/SIZE]

    Comment


    • #3
      WTF
      Can you feel its presents?
      http://www.armeniangenocide.com/foru...ead.php?t=1315
      "All truth passes through three stages:
      First, it is ridiculed;
      Second, it is violently opposed; and
      Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

      Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

      Comment


      • #4
        oops! Sorry must have missed that...anyway - it was originally intended as part of a post in another thread that was close between the time I posted the first part and this the second...if I would have seen your post I would just have linked it...(no offense intended...)
        Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?
        Adolf Hitler (22 August 1939)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sensei
          Not.
          Not? Not what? Or is this comment the extent of your brilliance?
          Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?
          Adolf Hitler (22 August 1939)

          Comment


          • #6
            Whats the point of this thread, Shlomo? We all know who Young Turks were and we all know who Ataturk was.
            [COLOR="Red"][SIZE="4"][B]The Armenian Genocide is a reality that can not be debated[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 1.5 million
              Not? Not what? Or is this comment the extent of your brilliance?
              What kind of place is this where on your first post some fool has to insult you?

              Mr. you know exactly what I am getting at.
              [SIZE="3"]First Rule of Battle: [COLOR="Red"] KNOW[/COLOR] [COLOR="Blue"]YOUR[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkOrange"]ENEMY[/COLOR][/SIZE]

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sensei
                What kind of place is this where on your first post some fool has to insult you?

                Mr. you know exactly what I am getting at.
                boo hoo hoo...not
                Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?
                Adolf Hitler (22 August 1939)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Armenoid
                  Whats the point of this thread, Shlomo? We all know who Young Turks were and we all know who Ataturk was.
                  I really can't assume - or even imagine - that you really know much of anything...dude
                  Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?
                  Adolf Hitler (22 August 1939)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 1.5 million
                    The Young Turks – Children of the Borderlands?

                    Erik Jan Zürcher (Universiteit Leiden)
                    [October 2002]

                    In...1889, a group of young students in the army medical school founded a secret committee, which would later become known as the Committee of Union and Progress (İttihat ve Terakki Cemiyeti, C.U.P.)...

                    Between 1889 and 1896 this C.U.P. slowly gained adherents, primarily within the Ottoman bureaucracy.

                    ....from 1905. Newly arrived activists reorganised the émigré movement into a far more effective force, with a cell structure and secure communications, while in 1906 in Salonica, an independent group of conspirators, some of whom had been members of the C.U.P. before 1896, founded a secret committee, which, within two years, managed to gain an important following among the officers of the Ottoman garrisons in the Balkans.

                    In spite of their enormous importance in the modern history of Turkey, the social, geographical and ethnic background of the Young Turks remains largely unstudied.

                    After the C.U.P.’s victory in the constitutional revolution, thousand, possibly even tens of thousands joined it, but we have little or no information about this membership. At the same time, however, the leadership of the movement was in the hands of a relatively small group of people, not more than a hundred or so, about whom we can know quite a bit.

                    Within that leadership we can discern several groups. First of all, the leaders of the opposition movement against the rule of sultan Abdülhamid between 1889 and 1908. This group includes the founders of the movement at the Military Medical School in 1889 and the early members as well as those Young Turks, who kept up the publicity campaign against the sultan’s autocracy from Paris, Geneva or Cairo. Some, but not all, of these re-emerged in the second group, that of the members of the Central Committee of the C.U.P., which was the most powerful political body in the Ottoman Empire from the constitutional revolution of 1908 until the defeat in World War I ten years later. A third group is that of the administrators or party bosses (governors, inspectors, party secretaries (or in the terminology of the C.U.P. “responsible secretaries”), who were entrusted by the leadership with the control over provinces and cities. Finally, we have the activist, politicised army officers, who ultimately gave the C.U.P. its power through their influence in the army and who came to the rescue each time the C.U.P.’s hold on power was threatened. Some of these held formal positions in the Committee and even served on the Central Committee but most did not. As the Turkish independence movement after World War I, led by Mustafa Kemal Pasha (the later Atatürk) was also completely dominated by former C.U.P. members, we could also include the members of the leadership of this movement, the “Representative Committee” and the commissars of the first Great National Assembly in Ankara among the leading C.U.P. cadres whose background we want to investigate, but for the purposes of this article I have left these post-World War I leaders out of consideration.

                    The “typical” Young Turk

                    On the basis of the biographies of these leading Young Turks it is possible to discern a number of shared characteristics, which together make up a “typical Young Turk profile”. They were males and they were Muslims (with the exception of one single Sabbataic Jew or dönme)[14] of different ethnic backgrounds: Turk, Arab, Albanian, Kurd or Circassian. Their social background varied (some of them being sons of landowners, others of great dignitaries or generals, yet others sons of small-time civil servants), but it was urban and literate, with most fathers being in the service of the Ottoman state.

                    Let us first of all look at...the founders and early members in the period between the start of the Young Turk movement in 1889 and its suppression in 1896. This is a group of 20 persons, whose origins were as follows:



                    İstanbul
                    2

                    Balkans
                    7 (this includes 2 from provinces lost in 1878)

                    Aegean
                    3 (Rhodes, Smyrna and Crete)

                    Arab provinces
                    2

                    Kurdistan
                    2

                    Caucasus
                    4 (all from the Russian Empire).

                    Anatolia
                    0




                    Of the seven actual founders themselves, four came from the Russian Caucasus, one from the Albanian area in the Western Balkans and two from Kurdistan. Ethnically, not one was an Ottoman Turk. Surely, it is not an exaggeration to say that this is highly significant. It suggests that the fundamental questions regarding identity and loyalty were being asked earlier among the non-Turkish Muslim communities than among the ethnic Turks (but later than among the Christian communities of the empire).

                    The second group in our population, that of the members of the Central Committee (Heyeti Merkeziye) between 1908 and 1918 breaks down as follows:



                    İstanbul
                    4

                    Balkans
                    11

                    Aegean
                    4 (Lesbos, Crete, Smyrna, Milas)

                    Arab provinces
                    0

                    Kurdistan
                    1

                    Caucasus
                    1

                    Anatolia
                    4 (excluding Aegean coast and Kurdistan)

                    Unknown
                    6




                    The group of most prominent politically active officers, who obviously form a less strictly circumscribed category than the members of the Central Committee, have their birthplaces in the following areas:



                    İstanbul
                    8

                    Balkans
                    11

                    Aegean
                    1 (Smyrna)

                    Arab provinces
                    0

                    Kurdistan
                    0

                    Caucasus
                    0

                    Anatolia
                    1

                    Unknown
                    5

                    The predominance of the southern Balkans as origin especially of the post-1908 leaders, civilian and military, is clear. 48 percent of them came from this relatively small part of the empire, with another 26 percent born in the capital. 11 percent came from the islands and coast of the Aegean, while the vast Asiatic possessions of the empire taken together produced only 13 percent of the second-generation leadership. Within the general category of “Balkans” three areas stand out: Salonica, the area from Monastir (Bitola) to Ohrid and the area around Prishtine (modern Kosovo). The number of military officers hailing from the Western Ottoman Balkans is especially remarkable: 11 out of 21, which compares to one from the Aegean and one from Anatolia.

                    Fathers of Turkish nationalism

                    A slightly different pattern emerges when we look at one special category among the Young Turks – those who, as writers and teachers, contributed to the emergence of Turkish nationalism. If we look at this group, which comprises Mehmet Ziya Gök Alp (1876-1924), Tekin Alp (real name: Moise Cohen, 1883-1961), Yusuf Akçura (1876-1933), Hüseyinzade Ali Turan (1864-1941), Ahmet Ağaoğlu (1869-1939)and Mehmet Emin Yurdakul (1869-1944), we are struck by one remarkable phenomenon: not one of them hails from an area with a solid Ottoman-Turkish majority. Four of them were born in the Russian Empire (one in Kazan, the others in the Caucasus region), one in a part Turkish, part-Kurdish family in Kurdistan and one in a Jewish family in Macedonia. It would seem that in each case, their awareness of the problems of national identity was sharpened by the fact that they grew up in ethnically mixed areas where Turks were a minority (as in the case of Gök Alp and Tekin Alp) or where Turks lived under Russian domination (in the case of the others). This is perhaps not surprising. As we saw in the case of the founders of the C.U.P, young intellectuals belonging to Muslim communities outside the dominant Ottoman-Turkish one, were sensitised earlier to problems of identity and political loyalty.

                    when the secret committee that would bring about the constitutional revolution of 1908, was founded in Salonica in 1906, it accepted Ottoman Muslims without question, but non-Muslims only in exceptional cases after screening. The Young Turks developed a fierce Ottoman-Muslim nationalism, which defined the “other” very much in religious terms. In the years that followed, particularly between the outbreak of the Balkan War in 1912 and the end of the Turkish independence struggle in 1922, the Muslim – Non-Muslim divide would completely dominate politics and lead to the tragedies of the expulsion of Muslims from the Balkans and Greek-Orthodox from Anatolia, as well as to the wholesale slaughter of the Ottoman Armenians.

                    Most of the Young Turk officers also served in the Balkans, with the Third Army in the West or the Second Army more to the East.

                    So what is your point?

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X