The Turks

[elendil]

short and sweet, kill now ask questions later - it served well for centuries, right? why change now

Indeed when one looks to past, one must hand it, it really has served well. But we are changing more and more,even the fact that Turkish nationalist party or Kurdish nationalist party only takes votes at %4-7 proves blind nationalism is dying out in Turkey.

[elendil]

In contrast to the rest, the Islam thats being sold (expertly I might add) is very moderate ,and thats muzic to the Neo-cons ears.They feel that secular state of Turkey has served its purpose (they have other routes to transfer drugs and contraband now)What they really can use is a "moderate" Islamic country that will enable them to control rest of Islam and you must know that they have the ability to put anybody they want in power.I think thats their objective! To break up Iraq and solidify an "Moderate Islamic"state in Turkey.

The rising of Islamists in Turkey grieves me much more than any seperatist movements. Because with people who ask for democracy and rights you can come to terms but with people who find in themselves to limit your way to live you can not. An Islamic Turkey will be hell, that is for sure. Hell for our women, to admit hell for whole middle-east and hell for world. May Allah stop the ones who pretend to be the executor of his will....That is pretty ironic in fact a muslim fearing a muslim state...

Hmm, I do not think America can take the risk of a strong muslim Turkey in middle-east. With the rising powers of China,India, there is a good chance Turkey will sell out America for regional benefits. But a constant state of raging war between Islamists and Secularits views can be used much more easily. My idea ofcourse.

Iraq is broken up already, no doubt oil will flow cheaper, faster now...

[imported_willy_wonka]

What violence?
PKK started to attacks since 1984, and before that?
Since the creation of Turkey, the country has been in denial of Kurds, their culture, their language, long before PKK started. Why didn't Turkey recognise us in 1923? 1933? 1943? 1953? 1963? 1973? and even today everybody in Turkey is by definition a TURK.

what would be more normal than to call people as "Turk" in whose identity card there isi written T.C.(Turkiye Cumhuriyeti-Turkey Republic)???
why do not laz people complain about it?Don't you think that you are also turk??
may be you dont but your ancestors did in WW1 fighting against 8 nation in hunger and in all impossiblities..
nationalism is not racism...you know...everyone has different blood and has different ancestors from different races...it's not different things when you say "i am turk" and "i am kurt"...you make it different...
on the other hand you said you are called "seperators"...why are you called seperators but no any other people do not??for example laz, dadaş, çıtak or any other...
(laz, dadaş, çıtak are people live in Turkey just like kurts...)

[NickyMartin]

What violence?
PKK started to attacks since 1984, and before that?
Since the creation of Turkey, the country has been in denial of Kurds, their culture, their language, long before PKK started. Why didn't Turkey recognise us in 1923? 1933? 1943? 1953? 1963? 1973? and even today everybody in Turkey is by definition a TURK.
It's easy to answer everything concerning Kurds: PKK PKK PKK PKK PKK PKK PKK.
PKK is an organisation I don't like, I am with you the party is very violent and uses terrible tactics to achieve it's goals.
But you cannot deny this is just a result of decades of massacring Kurds, denying Kurds. This does not make me a PKK-supporter, this is only logic. Everything has 2 sides.
As long as Turkey continues it's dirty policies concerning minorities, I will never support Turkey. Because if I do that, it's like a jew asking Nazi Germany for having rights. Reforms is what Turkey needs, and those must be BIG REFORMS.
I am speaking from a Kurdish point of view, I want to live side by side with Turks........as long as I can speak and learn the language our ancestors spoken, as long as I can wear traditional Kurdish clothes, as long as our own cities and villages have good infrastructure.
But can you see that these are just dreams, and do not think Turkey would ever let this, so Turkey fuels the Kurdish dream for an independent state day by day, and keeps asking why Kurds are separatist.

Greets

The performance of Turkish government is not perfect upto now .That's true.
But this government is also your government.
We had Kurdish parliament chairman, ministers,prime ministers and presidents.
But now, noone is killed because they speak or learn Kurdish.You can wear traditional clothes and in close future your villages will be fine infrastructure.
The condition of infrastructure is the same with the rest of the Turkey.
The villages even 10 kilometers far from the capital Ankara has the same infrastructure.
Think about this ,Overall income from east is less then overall spent in East.
Why are you so pessimistic ? Even Prime Minister has stated that he recognizes the Kurdish Reality.
Your defination of problem is good and i should say there are a lot of improvements.
But you put no clear solution for the problem and you are very pessimistic.
You speak what people in this forum like to hear.
I think you get valuable credits

[Gavur]

Yes what we like to hear !
The truth which we know and you need to admit.

[Joseph]

What violence?
PKK started to attacks since 1984, and before that?
Since the creation of Turkey, the country has been in denial of Kurds, their culture, their language, long before PKK started. Why didn't Turkey recognise us in 1923? 1933? 1943? 1953? 1963? 1973? and even today everybody in Turkey is by definition a TURK.
It's easy to answer everything concerning Kurds: PKK PKK PKK PKK PKK PKK PKK.
PKK is an organisation I don't like, I am with you the party is very violent and uses terrible tactics to achieve it's goals.
But you cannot deny this is just a result of decades of massacring Kurds, denying Kurds. This does not make me a PKK-supporter, this is only logic. Everything has 2 sides.
As long as Turkey continues it's dirty policies concerning minorities, I will never support Turkey. Because if I do that, it's like a jew asking Nazi Germany for having rights. Reforms is what Turkey needs, and those must be BIG REFORMS.
I am speaking from a Kurdish point of view, I want to live side by side with Turks........as long as I can speak and learn the language our ancestors spoken, as long as I can wear traditional Kurdish clothes, as long as our own cities and villages have good infrastructure.
But can you see that these are just dreams, and do not think Turkey would ever let this, so Turkey fuels the Kurdish dream for an independent state day by day, and keeps asking why Kurds are separatist.

Greets

Good post.

It's as if some people believe these problems are created in a vacuum, arising for no reason; naively thinking or wanting to believe that there are no problems, everything is just fine, and when a problem are arises, just eradicate it through violence.

Current problems exist and are exacerbated because there is indeed a cause and a reason why.

To paraphrase you and expand even more, the Turkish Gov't (and Ottoman Empire) has never dealt with internal problems in a progressive manner (but this is not unusal and they are not the only ones, especially at that time period) but even to this day, it seems they are finally starting to realize that once you give people a voice, perhaps the violence will cease and you can begin to understand your adversaries position even if you don't agree. But it seems as if that ship has sailed and maybe it's too late and the Kurdish problem is intractable.

[NickyMartin]

Yes what we like to hear !
The truth which we know and you need to admit.

You should know and I should admit that You have to face your role and resulted responsibilities.
Like this also?

[Joseph]

You should know and I should admit that You have to face your role and resulted responsibilities.
Like this also?

Hmm. Sounds like a threat. Gavur, you are now the leader of the revolution.

[kerkuk_kurdista]

Thanks folks, and I hope that some Turkish members will understand what I am trying to say. We are not just annoying people who can't do anything rather than complain (this is what I hear a lot from SOME Turks(Note how I wrote some kek RUDO)), Try to make us true citizens of Turkey, or give us autonomy, nobody will accept domination these times. Well, an indepedent state is the best of course , but that will enflame you a bit too much

[imported_RUDO]

For telling facts is making Turks racist? Then you are admitting Turks are naturally racist.

I don't mean that.

I mean you are provacating Turks by your rude words.Ok???

You are reversing things........
They deprived us from cultural rights, that's why hatred erupted.
And human rights are not given by choice, they should never be stolen from someone whatever or whoever he is.
You sound like a Turkish propaganda machine.

Yes I know we are deprived of our human rights.

But this war and terrorism will not benefit us.We will die,they will die and hate will get stronger between nations.Right???

I support democtaric ways.

It is 2006, shall we wait for another 100 years? Maybe nobody of our children will speak Kurdish anymore, and someone like you I highly doubt you can speak Kurdish.

If you look at my posts in this site,you will see that I am always angry because of not knowing my mother language.

I lovemy language.Fortunately my family sometimes speak Kurdish so I know a little. I can understand a little.

But I am determined to learn Kurdish and I will teach my children too in the future.

So don't say me that someone like you I highly doubt you can speak Kurdish.
Because I love my nation as much as you maybe even more.Because I don't want Kurds to die but live.Kurds should gain his rights by politics not terrorism.

My my my, what am I reading now?
I will be a Turkish soldier?
You are someone who was forced to be a citizen of Turkey back in the '20s.
And now you have been sleepwalking into becoming a Turk?
How can you declare Turkish nationalism and sell Kurdish nationalism?
If you like to be a Turkish citizen, then don't call yourself a Kurd. Because Turkey does not recognise Kurds. And this state is now killing Kurds, torturing us, oppressing us, doing everything against our nation,culture,language and this is almost going on for a century.
Instead, you could join the Kurdish opposition (I do not mean PKK or an army) and show the world what Turkey does to our people.
But you go play with your friends in the Turk army, and go rape some more Kurdish girls like all those soldiers do to Kurds.

I am not forced to be Turkish citizen.

I am happy to be Turkish citizen.But I hate war,so I wrote like that.Don't misunderstand me!!!Please!!!

You don't understand one thing:Those who kill our brothers aren't all Turks just a minority.

AND OUR AIM:GET RID OF THOSE MURDERERS WITH OUR DEMOCRATIC AND LEFT-WINGED TURKISH BROTHERS LIKE 60s 70s 80s...Do you understand me???Like Deniz Gezmiş and his brothers who want full democratic Turkey with all nations without despising them.Ok???I think that aim is much better than having independent state.

What do you think about it???