To All the Denialists Here

[Gavur]

[QUOTE=Aytug]I can swear you that we all in the command of US economically, thanks(!) to the IMF...

QUOTE]
Thats true U.S. has been deciding who fights who?where and for how much? The pasr 50 years at least!

[HayerMiacek]

I don't also surprised to the Jews...

you are a true idiot!

I just showed you how the majority of genocide scholars all affirm the AG and you change their last names to "ian", very mature of you

if all the denialists had brains and logic like you, we would have won the battle long time ago

[Aytug]

Prof. Ward Churchillyan
Ethnic Studies
The University of Colorado, Boulder


Dr. Philip Rosenyan, Director
Holocaust Education Center of the Delaware Valley

Prof. Alan S, Rosenbaumyan
Dept. of Philosophy
Cleveland State University

William L. Shulmanyan, President
Association of Holocaust Organizations City University of New York

Prof. Samuel Tottenyan
The University of Arkansas
Assoc. Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Elie Wieselyan
Andrew W. Mellon Professor in the Humanities
Boston University
Founding Chairman of the United States
Holocaust Memorial Council
Nobel Laureate for Peace[/B]

I don't also surprised to the Jews...

[Aytug]

Aytug,
... The United States does not dictate Turkey's economy... Don't you remember when Turkey rejected the United States' offer to build a base in Turkey? ...

I can swear you that we all in the command of US economically, thanks(!) to the IMF...

We rejected because we all in command of the US. How could you minimize the effect of the US in world changes, politicians? So many of them lived there, so many of them writing by earnin money from somewhere...

[HayerMiacek]

Most historians? When we show you historians that don't agree, you say they are paid by Turkey and should be put in jail. With that mentality of course you will think most historians agree with you. And why do you support people getting in jail for expressing their thoughts may I ask? That's a faschist behaviour. I'm sure everybody agrees with that. I think you need to learn about what democracy and human rights are before accusing people of genocide.

International Affirmation of the Armenian Genocide

Public Petitions

Statement by 126 Holocaust Scholars, Holders of Academic Chairs, and Directors of Holocaust Research and Studies Centers

March 7, 2000

View image of the petition appeared in New York Times, June 9, 2000.

126 HOLOCAUST SCHOLARS AFFIRM THE INCONTESTABLE FACT OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE AND URGE WESTERN DEMOCRACIES TO OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZE IT

At the Thirtieth Anniversary of the Scholar's Conference on the Holocaust and the Churches Convening at St. Joseph University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, March 3-7, 2000, one hundred twenty-six Holocaust Scholars, holders of Academic Chairs and Directors of Holocaust Research and Studies Centers, participants of the Conference, signed a statement affirming that the World War I Armenian Genocide is an incontestable historical fact and accordingly urge the governments of Western democracies to likewise recognize it as such. The petitioners, among whom is Nobel Laureate for Peace Elie Wiesel, who was the keynote speaker at the conference, also asked the Western Democracies to urge the Government and Parliament of Turkey to finally come to terms with a dark chapter of Ottoman-Turkish history and to recognize the Armenian Genocide. This would provide an invaluable impetus to the process of the democratization of Turkey.

Below is a partial list of the signatories:


Prof. Yehuda Bauer
Distinguished Professor
Hebrew University
Director, The International Institute of Holocaust Research
Yad Vashem, Jerusalem

Prof. Israel Charny, Director
Institute of the Holocaust and Genocide, Jerusalem
Professor at the Hebrew University,
Editor-in-Chief of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Ward Churchill
Ethnic Studies
The University of Colorado, Boulder

Prof. Stephen Feinstein, Director
Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies
University of Minnesota

Prof. Saul Friedman, Director
Holocaust and Jewish Studies
Youngston State University, Ohio

Prof. Edward Gaffney
Valparaiso University Law School

Prof. Zev Garber
Los Angeles Valley College

Prof. Dorota Glowacka
University of King's Collage
Halifax, Nova Scotia

Dr. Irving Greenberg, President
Jewish Life Network

Prof. Herbert Hirsch
Virginia Commonwealth University

Prof. Irving L. Horowitz
Hannah Arendt Distinguished Professor
Rutgers University, NJ

Rabbi Dr. Steve Jacobs
Temple Sinai Shalom
Huntsville, Alabama
Associate Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Steven Katz
Distinguish Professor
Director, Center for Judaic Studies
Boston University



Prof. Richard Libowitz
Temple University

Dr. Marcia Littell
Stockton College
Exec. Director, Scholars' Conference
On the Holocaust and the Churches

Franklin Littell
Emeritus Professor
Temple University

Prof. Hubert G. Locke
Washington University
Co-founder of the Annual Scholar's Conference
On the Holocaust and the Churches

Dr. Elizabeth Maxwell
Executive Director of the International Scholarly
Conference on the Holocaust, London, England

Prof. Erik Markusen
Southwest State University, MN

Prof. Saul Mendlowitz
Dag Hammerskjold Distinguished Professor
of International Law
Rutgers University

Prof. Jack Needle, Director
Center for Holocaust Studies
Brookdale Community College
Lincroft, NJ

Dr. Philip Rosen, Director
Holocaust Education Center of the Delaware Valley

Prof. Alan S, Rosenbaum
Dept. of Philosophy
Cleveland State University

William L. Shulman, President
Association of Holocaust Organizations City University of New York

Prof. Samuel Totten
The University of Arkansas
Assoc. Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Elie Wiesel
Andrew W. Mellon Professor in the Humanities
Boston University
Founding Chairman of the United States
Holocaust Memorial Council
Nobel Laureate for Peace

[HayerMiacek]

Most historians? When we show you historians that don't agree, you say they are paid by Turkey and should be put in jail. With that mentality of course you will think most historians agree with you. And why do you support people getting in jail for expressing their thoughts may I ask? That's a faschist behaviour. I'm sure everybody agrees with that. I think you need to learn about what democracy and human rights are before accusing people of genocide.

INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GENOCIDE SCHOLARS




President

Israel Charny (Israel)



First Vice-President

Gregory H. Stanton (USA)



Second Vice-President

Linda Melvern (UK)



Secretary-Treasurer

Steven Jacobs (USA)







June 13, 2005





Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan

TC Easbakanlik

Bakanlikir

Ankara, Turkey



FAX: 90 312 417 0476



Dear Prime Minister Erdogan:



We are writing you this open letter in response to your call for an “impartial study by historians” concerning the fate of the Armenian people in the Ottoman Empire during World War I.



We represent the major body of scholars who study genocide in North America and Europe. We are concerned that in calling for an impartial study of the Armenian Genocide you may not be fully aware of the extent of the scholarly and intellectual record on the Armenian Genocide and how this event conforms to the definition of the United Nations Genocide Convention. We want to underscore that it is not just Armenians who are affirming the Armenian Genocide but it is the overwhelming opinion of scholars who study genocide: hundreds of independent scholars, who have no affiliations with governments, and whose work spans many countries and nationalities and the course of decades. The scholarly evidence reveals the following:



On April 24, 1915, under cover of World War I, the Young Turk government of the Ottoman Empire began a systematic genocide of its Armenian citizens – an unarmed Christian minority population. More than a million Armenians were exterminated through direct killing, starvation, torture, and forced death marches. The rest of the Armenian population fled into permanent exile. Thus an ancient civilization was expunged from its homeland of 2,500 years.



The Armenian Genocide was the most well-known human rights issue of its time and was reported regularly in newspapers across the United States and Europe. The Armenian Genocide is abundantly documented by thousands of official records of the United States and nations around the world including Turkey’s wartime allies Germany, Austria and Hungary, by Ottoman court-martial records, by eyewitness accounts of missionaries and diplomats, by the testimony of survivors, and by decades of historical scholarship.



The Armenian Genocide is corroborated by the international scholarly, legal, and human rights community:

1) Polish jurist Raphael Lemkin, when he coined the term genocide in 1944, cited the Turkish extermination of the Armenians and the Nazi extermination of the Jews as defining examples of what he meant by genocide.

2) The killings of the Armenians is genocide as defined by the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

3) In 1997 the International Association of Genocide Scholars, an organization of the world’s foremost experts on genocide, unanimously passed a formal resolution affirming the Armenian Genocide.

4) 126 leading scholars of the Holocaust including Elie Wiesel and Yehuda Bauer placed a statement in the New York Times in June 2000 declaring the “incontestable fact of the Armenian Genocide” and urging western democracies to acknowledge it.

5) The Institute on the Holocaust and Genocide (Jerusalem), and the Institute for the Study of Genocide (NYC) have affirmed the historical fact of the Armenian Genocide.

6) Leading texts in the international law of genocide such as William A. Schabas’s Genocide in International Law (Cambridge University Press, 2000) cite the Armenian Genocide as a precursor to the Holocaust and as a precedent for the law on crimes against humanity.



We note that there may be differing interpretations of genocide—how and why the Armenian Genocide happened, but to deny its factual and moral reality as genocide is not to engage in scholarship but in propaganda and efforts to absolve the perpetrator, blame the victims, and erase the ethical meaning of this history.



We would also note that scholars who advise your government and who are affiliated in other ways with your state-controlled institutions are not impartial. Such so-called “scholars” work to serve the agenda of historical and moral obfuscation when they advise you and the Turkish Parliament on how to deny the Armenian Genocide. In preventing a conference on the Armenian Genocide from taking place at Bogacizi University in Istanbul on May 25, your government revealed its aversion to academic and intellectual freedom—a fundamental condition of democratic society.



We believe that it is clearly in the interest of the Turkish people and their future as a proud and equal participants in international, democratic discourse to acknowledge the responsibility of a previous government for the genocide of the Armenian people, just as the German government and people have done in the case of the Holocaust.

[Kharpert]

Silver, have you heard of the trial of David Irving?

When we show you historians that don't agree, you say they are paid by Turkey

No, no, no, you have it backwards. When historians are paid by Turkey, we don't agree with them, because they are being paid to say something that isn't true!

[Silver]

Most historians do agree it was Genocide,There will come a day when Turkish so-called historians Will find them selves in jail from denial.

Most historians? When we show you historians that don't agree, you say they are paid by Turkey and should be put in jail. With that mentality of course you will think most historians agree with you. And why do you support people getting in jail for expressing their thoughts may I ask? That's a faschist behaviour. I'm sure everybody agrees with that. I think you need to learn about what democracy and human rights are before accusing people of genocide.

[HayerMiacek]

I asked you this, it is democratic to send people to jail for observing scienctific information? Why do you so annoyed for the anti-thesis? You have to face with the other side of the medallion and prove the truth if you want to show people something. But Armenian side always rejected the arguement proposal from the Turkish side. That shows what is what

So, European countries should null their laws that ban Holocaust denial and they should promote debates between Holocaust denialists and the rest?

[Kharpert]

Aytug,

I should begin by saying it shouldn't come off as surprising to anyone that corruption takes place in a nation's government. Even the United States has it's fair share of corruption; it's NOT a sign of imperialism.

The rest of your explanation is describing alliances. Well, that's certainly true; the United States is the most powerful member of NATO (of which Turkey is a part), but that isn't a byproduct of imperialism. The United States does not dictate Turkey's economy; it does not have control over Greece's government; it does not impose base construction in Bulgaria. Don't you remember when Turkey rejected the United States' offer to build a base in Turkey? Doesn't that tell you that these nations are autonomous and can deny their relationship to the U.S. if they want to?