Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

The city of Kerkuk

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The city of Kerkuk

    Although this is not related to Armenian issues, it is to give you information about my name and why maybe you will see some Turks on cyberspaces carrying this name.

    The city of Kerkuk (or Kirkuk) (pronounce: Kuhhr-Kook) (Turks say Kerkük) lies today in modern Iraq. In the north.
    According to early estimates, the population was overwhelmingly Kurdish. With also a sizeable Arabic population. It starts on the foot of the Zagros mountains. The mountainious area which is known for it's continious Kurdish inhabitance. Iraq has never been the indegnious place for Turkic people.
    The Turkmens today living in Kerkuk, and generally in Iraq, are remnants and traders of the former Ottoman empire. Thus Turkmens were put in that region during the Ottoman Empire in the trade route from Baghdad to Mosul.
    When there was oil found in the Kurdish north, most Turkmens were ordered from Ottoman generals to settle around the oil rich areas. To be good trademen for their Empire.
    When the British conquered Iraq, they together with Arabs created the government and army.
    Kurds and Turkmens weren't recognized and Iraq became a police state.
    During the Saddam era, the city of Kerkuk was being heavily arabised. The Arabization campaign affected the Kurds mostly but also the Turkmens and Assyrians.
    Kerkuk in the '70's, being some 60% Kurdish, was under Arabization. Thousands of people were forced to leave their homes and families who refused to leave were executed in the minute. Kurdish sources estimate that at least 250.000 Kurds were expelled from their homes in the late '70s and early '80s. Also many Turkmens who were forced to leave and refused were executed. Thousands of Arabs from southern Iraq were settled in the city in order to crush future Kurdish claims on the city.
    In 1991, during the popular Kurdish uprising against the Baathist government, the Kurds managed to liberate Kerkuk city on their national day, Newroz on 21st of March. Later Iraqi troops captured the city again and again thousands of Kurds were expelled.

    Look at the picture: Kurds fleeing during the 1991 mass exodus, in the vicinity of Kirkuk
    http://www.uga.edu/islam/iraq.html

    Since then, Saddam has expelled daily Kurds from the city.
    Look at this ethnic cleansing campaign in 1997 and 1998. The ancient citadel which is inhabited by Kurds.
    Take a good look at the pictures.


    http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1999/09/photo3.htm

    Kerkuk ethnic population: http://www.kirkukcenter.com/English/...nstitution.htm

    Today there are Kurds returning to their homecity. They are living under poor conditions in football stadiums and tents:
    http://www.conflictpics.co.uk/Kurdistan/Kurd1.htm
    http://www.conflictpics.co.uk/Kurdistan/Kurd17.htm
    http://www.conflictpics.co.uk/Kurdistan/Kurd18.htm
    http://www.conflictpics.co.uk/Kurdistan/Kurd19.htm

    All the time before Saddam and his atrocities against Turkmens, Turkey did not say anything about it!!!

    Since Saddam was ousted in 2003, The Kurds are getting their city back. A city which has almost 6% of the planet's oil resources. Turkey is complaining about this happening and says that it is an Iraqi Turkmen city. Also it threatened to intervene if Kurds manage to control the city. Turkey is afraid that the resources will be enough and viable for a Kurdish state, which will eventually create separatism feelings for it's own longtime supressed Kurdish minority. The answer that Turkey is saying this city is Turkish is just simply answered. It didn't bother Turkey when Saddam killed many Turkmens, but when Kurds claim their own city. They suddenly do speak about them. There was never before the Iraq invasion of 2003 something said about a turkmen state in Iraq, or a Turkmen city, or Turkish cities. Only since Kurds are trying to get their city back.!!
    Remember that literally tenthousands of Kurds have died for the struggle to get ther city back.

    If you happen to surf some Turkmen Front sites and read their stories then I have something to say for you: This party claims that there are 4 million Turkmens in Iraq. A statistical comedy! Also it lost many votes during the second Iraqi elections.

    Kurdish sites about this city are also in Turkish, but Turkmen Front sites never include Kurdish.
    http://www.kerkuk-kurdistan.com/

    My point is that this is a historical Kurdish city and that you will see many Turks trying to say that it's a "Turkish" city. Also, the majority of Turkmens do not want anything Turkish about this city.
    Kurds have said to make the governor a Turkmen, there are many schools in Turkmen and more are planned. The Kurdish government has now 2 Turkmen ministers. Turkmens longtime joined Kurdish rebels.
    This is again a Turkish tactic to crush any Kurdish political entity in the world.

    In late 2007, there will be a referendum in the city which will eventually decide if it comes under Kurdish control or stay outside the Kurdistan Federation in Iraq.

    Areas controlled by Kurdish Peshmerga fighters during 1991-2003:

    The claim:


    What do you think, is this city historical Kurdish, Turkish or Arabic? Vote please.
    14
    Kurdish
    42.86%
    6
    Turkish
    57.14%
    8
    Arabic
    0.00%
    0

  • #2
    Good thread Kerkuk Kurdista.Thanks

    Of course it is Kurdish.

    Comment


    • #3
      Historically speaking, it was first Arabic, then Turkish and now Kurdish

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by elendil
        Historically speaking, it was first Arabic, then Turkish and now Kurdish
        I'm not sure of Kerkuk's origin but I'd say that these days it seems to be at the apex of the Kurdish independence movement. What is the city's population and demographic breakdown?
        General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by elendil
          Historically speaking, it was first Arabic, then Turkish and now Kurdish
          Untrue,

          The Kurds settled on the Zagros mountains for maybe 5000 years ago, while the Arabs have travelled to this area (and many other former non-Arab areas in the middle-east and Northern Africa) just before Islam arrived to the world.

          elendil, do you mean it's Turkish because it was the under Ottoman Empire? If so, then you can declare Cairo also Turkish.

          Comment


          • #6
            The majority is Kurdish now and naturally to claim total victory against central goverment of Iraq more and more Kurds are coming into the city.(along with the driven times at the Saddam) Personally speaking I dont give damn who runs the city as long as nobody harms our Turkmen brother. The city may be ruled by Kurds or Arabs or Turkmens individually as part of a regional goverment or as a council which is free from regional goverments.

            Comment


            • #7
              The Kurds settled on the Zagros mountains for maybe 5000 years ago, while the Arabs have travelled to this area (and many other former non-Arab areas in the middle-east and Northern Africa) just before Islam arrived to the world.
              I did not go back that much in time.. Let it be the Kurdish who founded the city does not matter much to me honestly

              Comment


              • #8
                elendil, do you mean it's Turkish because it was the under Ottoman Empire? If so, then you can declare Cairo also Turkish
                How did you reach this conclusion from my words? No to me empire is over, I have no claim on Iraq soil, it is not my country after all.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by elendil
                  How did you reach this conclusion from my words? No to me empire is over, I have no claim on Iraq soil, it is not my country after all.
                  fair enough my friend. But how did you come to the conclusion that Kerkuk was formerly Turkish?

                  Also, this city must come under the Kurdistan Federation by democracy, or else the Kurds will do militairly. You can't steal a city by forced displacements. ALso, most Turkmens want this to come under Kurdish control, a safer and wealthier government than the Iraqi government.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    fair enough my friend. But how did you come to the conclusion that Kerkuk was formerly Turkish?
                    I had read a demography graph of Kerkuk population before WW1 which showed Turkish as the dominant element, after that Kurdish element. The source was not Turkish mind you. Again that does not really matter, Iraq or Iraqi Kurdistan whatever you name it does not belong to my country therefore I have no say over it.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X