The city of Kerkuk

[elendil]

Also, this city must come under the Kurdistan Federation by democracy, or else the Kurds will do militairly. You can't steal a city by forced displacements. ALso, most Turkmens want this to come under Kurdish control, a safer and wealthier government than the Iraqi government.

Well, I dont think you will be able to use force to claim the city considering America's position there not to mention all ethnic groups in Iraq will turn towards you in case of such an act. I do not know what difference it will make in terms of wealth whomever rules the city.
Besides I am a Turk from Turkey, I believe sincerely you must discuss this with your Arabic countrymen.

[kerkuk_kurdista]

I had read a demography graph of Kerkuk population before WW1 which showed Turkish as the dominant element, after that Kurdish element. The source was not Turkish mind you. Again that does not really matter, Iraq or Iraqi Kurdistan whatever you name it does not belong to my country therefore I have no say over it.

If all Turks were like you then we maybe should have never had problems. But why does the Turkish government interfere in Iraq? Does it have to interfere in every country were Kurds live?
Also, nicely put that the city is 'Turkish' , it can never be, it is either Turkmen or Kurdish. Turkey claims it is a Turkish city, not a Turkmen city.

Add to that, that Kurds have already liberated this city 2 times , so it won't be anything new now to intervene into this city.

[seven_ba]

i don't agree

First of all; what is the reason of giving some kind of details in this forum. And secondly you're trying to confuse some brains who hasn't got enough information about kurdish problem.

[elendil]

If all Turks were like you then we maybe should have never had problems. But why does the Turkish government interfere in Iraq? Does it have to interfere in every country were Kurds live?
Also, nicely put that the city is 'Turkish' , it can never be, it is either Turkmen or Kurdish. Turkey claims it is a Turkish city, not a Turkmen city.

Turks are generally alike me, expect Grey wolves I have seen few Turks who gives a damn about Kerkuk.
Turkey does not claim it is an Turkish city. Turkey's official poisiton is of unity in Iraq therefore Turkey does not wish for a break-up. As to Turkmen they are Turkish ofcourse but that does not mean necessarily that they wont live under another flag. Do you see your Kurdish bretheren in Turkey as Turkish ? I doubt that. So you see Turkmens are Iraqi Turks for me. They speak Turkish, their culture is Turkish, therefore they are Turkish.

Turkey is a state, Kurds always miss that when speaking about politics of Turkey. It does not act on ethics, it acts on benefits.So as you interfere with Turkey, we interfere with Iraq. I dont mean military, I mean economy, I mean pipelines, I mean trade, I mean diplomacy. Today the greatest investment maker in northeren Iraq is Turkey. Turkey is where its benefits are...

Add to that, that Kurds have already liberated this city 2 times , so it won't be anything new now to intervene into this city

Given that Kerkuk is another matter entirely as you also very well know. Leave your neighbours aside, America will never let Kurds take that oil field. That is my guess ofcourse but America will probably give the managment of city to a common council consisted of all ethnicites of Iraq where it will be very easy to bribe one or another to form Iraq's oil policy through America's will.

[kerkuk_kurdista]

Turks are generally alike me, expect Grey wolves I have seen few Turks who gives a damn about Kerkuk.
Turkey does not claim it is an Turkish city. Turkey's official poisiton is of unity in Iraq therefore Turkey does not wish for a break-up. As to Turkmen they are Turkish ofcourse but that does not mean necessarily that they wont live under another flag. Do you see your Kurdish bretheren in Turkey as Turkish ? I doubt that. So you see Turkmens are Iraqi Turks for me. They speak Turkish, their culture is Turkish, therefore they are Turkish.

Turkey is a state, Kurds always miss that when speaking about politics of Turkey. It does not act on ethics, it acts on benefits.So as you interfere with Turkey, we interfere with Iraq. I dont mean military, I mean economy, I mean pipelines, I mean trade, I mean diplomacy. Today the greatest investment maker in northeren Iraq is Turkey. Turkey is where its benefits are...

First of all they do NOT speak Turkish, the speak TURKMEN, French and Italian are also Romance languages but they are still separate.
Also, I am convinced of the fact that before 2003 you didn't even know there were Turkmens in Iraq. 99% of the Turks didn't know, but since things have changed and since most of the Turks just believe every story that their channels say, you all have started to believe these kind of diaries and stories.

Also, do not compare the Turkmens in Iraq with Kurds in Turkey, all Kurds care about eachother regardless separated from eachother unlike the Turks and Turkey who never cared about Saddam massacring Turkmens.
Kurdish area is united and forms a geographical ethnical homeland. Whereas the Turkmens in Iraq are just city dwelling people, settled by the Ottoman with no area in Iraq belonging to them. Tell me when the already opressed Kurds ever supressed the Turkmens and stole their basic rights from them. In fact they are being protected by Kurdish fighters else they would get killed daily by the thousands of bombings,kidnappings,beheadings by terrorists.
But what has Turkey done, it has the worst name of all countries in the world.

[elendil]

First of all they do NOT speak Turkish, the speak TURKMEN, French and Italian are also Romance languages but they are still separate.
Also, I am convinced of the fact that before 2003 you didn't even know there were Turkmens in Iraq. 99% of the Turks didn't know, but since things have changed and since most of the Turks just believe every story that their channels say, you all have started to believe these kind of diaries and stories.

How come I do understand what they say then? Please, I am not a child, I have met enough people who are Turkmen to make a distinction about our language.
We did not know there were Turkmens? Kerkuk get serious please? You must be joking. I knew there were Turkmens in Iraq as I knew there are Azeris in Iran since I am 10 years. I think you have all started to believe what Kurdish channels tell you.

Also, do not compare the Turkmens in Iraq with Kurds in Turkey, all Kurds care about eachother regardless separated from eachother unlike the Turks and Turkey who never cared about Saddam massacring Turkmens.
Kurdish area is united and forms a geographical ethnical homeland. Whereas the Turkmens in Iraq are just city dwelling people, settled by the Ottoman with no area in Iraq belonging to them. Tell me when the already opressed Kurds ever supressed the Turkmens and stole their basic rights from them. In fact they are being protected by Kurdish fighters else they would get killed daily by the thousands of bombings,kidnappings,beheadings by terrorists.
But what has Turkey done, it has the worst name of all countries in the world.

When did we come to Turkey's Kurdish problem, I though we were talking about Turkmens. Not to mention I did not say Turkmens should be given a free land what is your fuss is all about. As to Saddam we did all we could about Turkmen brothers just as we did for Kurdish refugees after the massacre of Halepje. I never said Kurds opressed Turkmens, do you read my posts entirely man or are you just assuming? Turkmens may be dwelling people but they are our brothers who have rights and who speak the same language, I do not buy propaganda be it Kurdish based or Turkish based.
I know the language Turkmen speak it is Turkish. I have talked to Turkmens so dont believe everything you hear from Kurdish hate sites..

[kerkuk_kurdista]

How come I do understand what they say then? Please, I am not a child, I have met enough people who are Turkmen to make a distinction about our language.
We did not know there were Turkmens? Kerkuk get serious please? You must be joking. I knew there were Turkmens in Iraq as I knew there are Azeris in Iran since I am 10 years. I think you have all started to believe what Kurdish channels tell you.

Yeah, well how come my Turkmen friends say that they speak different than Turkish, do you know Kurdish and Persian are very near but still are seperate languages. Why would they say that they speak Turkmen, not Turkish? Why are they called Turkmen instead of Turkish then?
You don't know anything about them obviously, and neither does 99% of the other Turks. You know, before 2003 all the Turks I know never spoke about Turkmens in Iraq, I said many times Kerkuk but they were just getting more cold when I said this. As for Kurdish Channels, they are objective channels and I mainly watch the turkmen programs. As we have diversity in our channels.

When did we come to Turkey's Kurdish problem, I though we were talking about Turkmens.

You came with that mister hypocrite
This is what you said:

Do you see your Kurdish bretheren in Turkey as Turkish ?

As to Saddam we did all we could about Turkmen brothers just as we did for Kurdish refugees after the massacre of Halepje.

Oh man, after reading this I totally knew you were just biased and do not know ANYTHING about Iraq and it's Kurds and the history of it.
Kurdish refugees after Halabja? please spare me from more insane stories
Also, Saddam once executed 56 Turkmens in a row.
Now isn't that worse than their situation is today?
But Turkey is only now awake, they do not care about Turkmens.
But do not worry, Turkmens do not like Turkey as much.

[elendil]

Yeah, well how come my Turkmen friends say that they speak different than Turkish, do you know Kurdish and Persian are very near but still are seperate languages. Why would they say that they speak Turkmen, not Turkish?

Why are they called Turkmen instead of Turkish then?

Well the Turkmen girl I was hitting on could talk my language I assure you. Why they are not called Turkish? Because they are Iraqi man, why Azeri Turks are called Azeri?
Besides as far as I know when a Kurd and Persian talk they can not communicate.
But I can communicate with an Azeri or Turkmen with a slight difference of accent.

You came with that mister hypocrite
This is what you said:
Quote:
Do you see your Kurdish bretheren in Turkey as Turkish ?

??? What does it have to do with Kurdish problem, it was a direct question to empose you empathy about how we think about Turkmens of Iraq.

Oh man, after reading this I totally knew you were just biased and do not know ANYTHING about Iraq and it's Kurds and the history of it.
Kurdish refugees after Halabja? please spare me from more insane stories

Insane story???? Man are you really a Kurd from middle-east or were you born in Europe or something? Nearly 900.000 Kurds fled from the massacre of Saddam's armies to the Turkish border after the first gulf war when America abandoned you. Dont you know your own history?

Also, Saddam once executed 56 Turkmens in a row.
Now isn't that worse than their situation is today?
But Turkey is only now awake, they do not care about Turkmens.
But do not worry, Turkmens do not like Turkey as much.

What the hell are you talking about man? Did I say a thing about Turkmens being treated worse than the times of Saddam? Turkmens may or may not like Turkey, they are our bretheren, what part of this you dont understand???

I really doubt your intentions, your answers always seem to stray from main point....

[elendil]

You don't know anything about them obviously, and neither does 99% of the other Turks. You know, before 2003 all the Turks I know never spoke about Turkmens in Iraq, I said many times Kerkuk but they were just getting more cold when I said this. As for Kurdish Channels, they are objective channels and I mainly watch the turkmen programs. As we have diversity in our channels.

..... I am sorry but you have met Turks who live in Europe or you are lying. I know my people, we dont care who rules Kerkuk generally, but we know who lives in Iraq. I have not encountered a Turk that has no idea about the demography of Iraq. Please get real I know what I know and about this I know better since I am a Turk living in Turkey...

[bell-the-cat]

Add to that, that Kurds have already liberated this city 2 times , so it won't be anything new now to intervene into this city.

Being "liberated" by Kurds is, for non-Kurdish peoples, the equivalent of extermination. That there are a still substantial numbers of non-Kurds currently living in Kirkuk is probably mostly due to the fact that it is still so unsettled everywhere else in Iraq that they have nowhere else to move to.
I'm sure that the current batch of "liberators" are working hard towards that 100% Kurdish city.