Turkish Nationalists involved in Genocide

[HistoriCAL]

I am reading Robert Fisk's huge book "Great War for Civilization" that has a chapter devoted to the Armenian Genocide. I knew that it was carried out by the Ottomans under the control of the CUP. The book indicates that the Nationalists under Ataturk continued the policy in then-French occupied Cilicia and in Smyrna. Can anyone provide me any information on this ? What involvement did Ataturk have ?

[Kharpert]

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/genocidefaq.html

[HayerMiacek]

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (1881-1938) was the founder of the Republic of Turkey and the consummator of the Armenian Genocide. Kemal was an officer in the Turkish army whose defense of Gallipoli in 1915-1916 defeated the Allied campaign to breach the Dardanelles and quickly eliminate the Ottoman Empire from World War I. A supporter of the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), he stayed out of politics until 1919 when he organized the Turkish Nationalist Movement in the drive to oust the Allies who had placed strategic portions of the country under occupation after its defeat. Kemal established headquarters in Ankara, amnestied CUP members who joined his movement, and regrouped the remaining Ottoman army and other irregular units under his general command.

Kemal first directed his forces against the French in Cilicia with fatal consequences for the Armenians. With Allied encouragement and promises of protection, most surviving Armenians had repatriated to their hometowns in Cilicia in 1919. The attack by Kemalist units against the city of Marash in January 1920, which was accompanied by large-scale slaughtering of the Armenians, spelled the beginning of the end for the remnant Armenian population. The Armenians of Hajen (Hadjin) put up a last desperate fight for seven months only to be reduced by October 1920 to less than five hundred survivors who fled from a city completely torched by the besieging Turks. When the French formally agreed to evacuate Cilicia in October 1921, the debacle signified a second deportation for the Armenians of the region. In the meantime, the Turkish Nationalist forces had gone to war against the Republic of Armenia. With secret instructions from the Ankara government to proceed with the physical elimination of Armenia, General Kiazim Karabekir seized half the territories of Armenia in November 1920 as Red Army units Sovietized the remaining areas. Once again the Armenian population was driven out at the point of the sword with heavy casualties as the city of Kars and its surrounding region were annexed by Turkey.

The final chapter of the Armenians in Anatolia was written in Smyrna (Izmir) as Kemalist forces routed the Greek army and entered the city in September 1922. Soon after, a fire begun in the Armenian neighborhood consumed the entire Christian sector of the city and drove the civilian population to the shore whence they sailed into exile bereft of all belongings. With this exodus from the mainland, Mustafa Kemal completed what Talaat and Enver had started in 1915, the eradication of the Armenian population of Anatolia and the termination of Armenian political aspirations in the Caucasus. With the expulsion of the Greeks, the Turkification and Islamification of Asia Minor was nearly complete.

With the restoration of Turkish sovereignty over Anatolia, Kemal turned his attention to the modernization of the country. Designated President of the newly proclaimed Republic of Turkey in 1923, he embarked upon a thorough-going process of Westernization while promoting a secular Turkish national identity. This effort was epitomized in the adoption of the Latin alphabet for the modern Turkish language. In 1934 the Turkish Grand National Assembly hailed Kemal with the surname of Ataturk, meaning the father of the Turks, in tribute to his singular contribution in forging modern Turkey. With an eye toward securing his legacy, in 1931 Kemal founded the Turkish Historical Society, which was charged with the guardianship of the state's official history. In 1936 Kemal began to pressure France to yield the Sanjak of Alexandretta, or Iskenderun, a district on the Mediterranean under French administrative rule whose inhabitants included 23,000 Armenians. Preoccupied with the deteriorating situation in Europe, France yielded when Turkey send in its troops in 1938. Kemal died that year having prepared the annexation of the district. His action precipitated the final exodus of Armenians from Turkey in 1939 as most opted for the French offer of evacuation to Syria and Lebanon rather than risk mistreatment yet again.

[Vogelgrippe]

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (1881-1938) was the founder of the Republic of Turkey and the consummator of the Armenian Genocide. Kemal was an officer in the Turkish army whose defense of Gallipoli in 1915-1916 defeated the Allied campaign to breach the Dardanelles and quickly eliminate the Ottoman Empire from World War I. A supporter of the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), he stayed out of politics until 1919 when he organized the Turkish Nationalist Movement in the drive to oust the Allies who had placed strategic portions of the country under occupation after its defeat. Kemal established headquarters in Ankara, amnestied CUP members who joined his movement, and regrouped the remaining Ottoman army and other irregular units under his general command.

Kemal first directed his forces against the French in Cilicia with fatal consequences for the Armenians. With Allied encouragement and promises of protection, most surviving Armenians had repatriated to their hometowns in Cilicia in 1919. The attack by Kemalist units against the city of Marash in January 1920, which was accompanied by large-scale slaughtering of the Armenians, spelled the beginning of the end for the remnant Armenian population. The Armenians of Hajen (Hadjin) put up a last desperate fight for seven months only to be reduced by October 1920 to less than five hundred survivors who fled from a city completely torched by the besieging Turks. When the French formally agreed to evacuate Cilicia in October 1921, the debacle signified a second deportation for the Armenians of the region. In the meantime, the Turkish Nationalist forces had gone to war against the Republic of Armenia. With secret instructions from the Ankara government to proceed with the physical elimination of Armenia, General Kiazim Karabekir seized half the territories of Armenia in November 1920 as Red Army units Sovietized the remaining areas. Once again the Armenian population was driven out at the point of the sword with heavy casualties as the city of Kars and its surrounding region were annexed by Turkey.

The final chapter of the Armenians in Anatolia was written in Smyrna (Izmir) as Kemalist forces routed the Greek army and entered the city in September 1922. Soon after, a fire begun in the Armenian neighborhood consumed the entire Christian sector of the city and drove the civilian population to the shore whence they sailed into exile bereft of all belongings. With this exodus from the mainland, Mustafa Kemal completed what Talaat and Enver had started in 1915, the eradication of the Armenian population of Anatolia and the termination of Armenian political aspirations in the Caucasus. With the expulsion of the Greeks, the Turkification and Islamification of Asia Minor was nearly complete.

With the restoration of Turkish sovereignty over Anatolia, Kemal turned his attention to the modernization of the country. Designated President of the newly proclaimed Republic of Turkey in 1923, he embarked upon a thorough-going process of Westernization while promoting a secular Turkish national identity. This effort was epitomized in the adoption of the Latin alphabet for the modern Turkish language. In 1934 the Turkish Grand National Assembly hailed Kemal with the surname of Ataturk, meaning the father of the Turks, in tribute to his singular contribution in forging modern Turkey. With an eye toward securing his legacy, in 1931 Kemal founded the Turkish Historical Society, which was charged with the guardianship of the state's official history. In 1936 Kemal began to pressure France to yield the Sanjak of Alexandretta, or Iskenderun, a district on the Mediterranean under French administrative rule whose inhabitants included 23,000 Armenians. Preoccupied with the deteriorating situation in Europe, France yielded when Turkey send in its troops in 1938. Kemal died that year having prepared the annexation of the district. His action precipitated the final exodus of Armenians from Turkey in 1939 as most opted for the French offer of evacuation to Syria and Lebanon rather than risk mistreatment yet again.

Hayer, I don't know whether you wrote the above post yourself, or quoted it. It is, to the best of my knowledge, mostly correct information with the exception of the claim that Ataturk was "the consummator of the Armenian Genocide"

What you call the genocide is the deportation of thousands of innocent Armenian civilians in 1915, mostly women and children, who were forced to march to Syria, the majority of which died (or killied) during this inhumane process. Ataturk had nothing to do with that, and he was pyhsically present in the Dardanelles, fighting against the British. Even if he wished, he could not have improved or worsened the situation of Armenians given that his rank was way below the Triumvirate Enver, Talat, and Cemal.

The Armenians Ataturk fought against were the Armenian militia who were fighting as French auxiliaries in Cilicia against Turks between 1919-1922. The region you are talking about was under official and effective French occupation during that period. You can verify this in many history books, and I can provide you with sources if you like. Again, unlike the Armenians who were inhumately deported, the Armenians in Antep, Marash were militiamen, armed to their teeth, and under the command of the occupying French forces. There were most probably cruelties and massacres perpetrated by French, Armenians, and Turks, which had even violated today's Geneva Convention, but it had nothing to do with genocide.

If your primary aim is to slander Ataturk and Turkey, this would probably mean not much to you. If you acted out of ignorance, however, I hope I could explain you the difference between the events of 1915 and 1919-1922, and the notion of 'innocence' regarding the Armenians involved in these two different events.

[Joseph]

Hayer, I don't know whether you wrote the above post yourself, or quoted it. It is, to the best of my knowledge, mostly correct information with the exception of the claim that Ataturk was "the consummator of the Armenian Genocide"

What you call the genocide is the deportation of thousands of innocent Armenian civilians in 1915, mostly women and children, who were forced to march to Syria, the majority of which died (or killied) during this inhumane process. Ataturk had nothing to do with that, and he was pyhsically present in the Dardanelles, fighting against the British. Even if he wished, he could not have improved or worsened the situation of Armenians given that his rank was way below the Triumvirate Enver, Talat, and Cemal.

The Armenians Ataturk fought against were the Armenian militia who were fighting as French auxiliaries in Cilicia against Turks between 1919-1922. The region you are talking about was under official and effective French occupation during that period. You can verify this in many history books, and I can provide you with sources if you like. Again, unlike the Armenians who were inhumately deported, the Armenians in Antep, Marash were militiamen, armed to their teeth, and under the command of the occupying French forces. There were most probably cruelties and massacres perpetrated by French, Armenians, and Turks, which had even violated today's Geneva Convention, but it had nothing to do with genocide.

If your primary aim is to slander Ataturk and Turkey, this would probably mean not much to you. If you acted out of ignorance, however, I hope I could explain you the difference between the events of 1915 and 1919-1922, and the notion of 'innocence' regarding the Armenians involved in these two different events.

Vogelgrippe,

While I agree with you regarding Mustafa Kemal's whereabouts, rank and actions during 1915 he must have certianly greenlighted Karabekir's invasion of the Armenia in 1920, an invasion in which the only goal was the destruction of Armenia and slaughter of it's people. This is why we often refer to the Genocide as lasting from 1915-1923 because the events after WWI in both Cilicia and Armenia were the continuation of the wanton destruction of our people.

Regarding Cilicia, the French had repatriated thousands of Armenian who were temporarily in Syria and Lebanon back to their pre-war homes. They were subsequently slaughtered by Turkish forces. Some of my family members were among them (Marash). The Armenian contingent (which was actually quite small, consisting of male survivors of Musa Dagh, trained by the British in Egypt) were no angels but did not engage in massacre of the local population. The main impetus of the Turkish struggle (against the small French and Armenian contigents as well as left over Indian troops from the main British force that had handed over the region to the French) was the fact that there was no way the local Turkish population could conceivably see themselves in a state where they were not its overlord. It bears repeating that the "occupation force" was far too miniscule to pose any threat the Turkish population and criminally too small to protect any returning Armenians and Assyrians (for which the French need to take some blame; it is not forgotten that they were aware of the impending events in Marash and slipped away quietly in the night and left the Christian population to the murderous hands of the Nationalist mob)

A great source for events in Cilicia is "The Lions of Marash" by Dr. Stanley Kerr. Dr. Kerr was present in Marash at the time of the massacres that ensued.

[Vogelgrippe]

Vogelgrippe,

While I agree with you regarding Mustafa Kemal's whereabouts, rank and actions during 1915 he must have certianly greenlighted Karabekir's invasion of the Armenia in 1920, an invasion in which the only goal was the destruction of Armenia and slaughter of it's people. This is why we often refer to the Genocide as lasting from 1915-1923 because the events after WWI in both Cilicia and Armenia were the continuation of the wanton destruction of our people.

Regarding Cilicia, the French had repatriated thousands of Armenian who were temporarily in Syria and Lebanon back to their pre-war homes. They were subsequently slaughtered by Turkish forces. Some of my family members were among them (Marash). The Armenian contingent (which was actually quite small, consisting of male survivors of Musa Dagh, trained by the British in Egypt) were no angels but did not engage in massacre of the local population. The main impetus of the Turkish struggle (against the small French and Armenian contigents as well as left over Indian troops from the main British force that had handed over the region to the French) was the fact that there was no way the local Turkish population could conceivably see themselves in a state where they were not its overlord. It bears repeating that the "occupation force" was far too miniscule to pose any threat the Turkish population and criminally too small to protect any returning Armenians and Assyrians (for which the French need to take some blame; it is not forgotten that they were aware of the impending events in Marash and slipped away quietly in the night and left the Christian population to the murderous hands of the Nationalist mob)

A great source for events in Cilicia is "The Lions of Marash" by Dr. Stanley Kerr. Dr. Kerr was present in Marash at the time of the massacres that ensued.

Joseph, I have no scientific source which exactly proves or disproves your guess that Ataturk "must have certainly greenlighted Karabekirs invasion of Armenia in 1920". Hence, I leave it to you whether this educated guess is sufficient to blame a great Turkish patriot with involvement in any form of genocide. There are, however, several books, such as Patrick Kinross' "Ottoman Centuries", Peter Hart's "Defeat at Gallipoli", Steinbachs "Geschichte der Tuerkei", even adamantly pro-Armenian Arnold Toynbee's "The Western Question in Greece and Turkey", which clearly indicate that neither Karabekir nor the Triumvirate started to show any respect for Ataturk until 1921, when his organization of Turkish nationalist forces was all but complete. (The Members of Triumvirate did not live long enough to respect Mustafa Kemal anyways). It is therefore my quasi-educated guess that Ataturk was not in a position to give neither green nor red light to Karabekir's incursions into Transcaucasia in 1920.

About the "miniscule" Franco-Armenian invasion force which had occupied Cilicia, same sources state that their numbers were between 8.000 to 12.000, and that the ratio of Armenians were roughly equal to that of the French. Given that the entire Turkish nationalist forces' number had reached its peak at 25.000-30.000 (scattered throughout entire Anatolia) in 1922, I leave it up to you how miniscule this occupying force (concentrated in a small region like Cilicia) must have felt to the local Turkish population. Since Cilicia had been left to Turkey even in the infamous Treaty of Sevres, it should not be very difficult to imagine how cruel and unjustified this occupation was in the eyes of the local Turks.

Another thing I have difficulty in understanding is the final part of your Marash account. We seem to be in agreement that the Armenian population of Marash had been deported in 1915, and that the surviving Armenian males were trained and brought back by the French in 1919. Since almost all Christians of Marash had been Armenians, (deported in 1915) I wonder if the 'Christian population which was left at the murderous hands of Nationalist mob' were innocent civilians or armed militia. Here I am counting on your open mind, and hope you will rather take my confusion as a sign of my scientific curiosity than cynical suspicion. Since you include the Marash events in your genocide counts, I believe it plays an important role whether these people were innocent civilians (mercilessly massacred) or armed militia (killed, very probably in violation of Geneva Convention in case they had surrendered before).

The account of Arnold Toynbee, on the other hand, supports your finding about the French responsibility and lack of goodwill: "..Nationalist forces attacked the weak French garrisons here in January 1920, and France found herself involved in a costly campaign in difficult country. She tried many expedients. There were repeated changes of command; at one moment the Cilician Armenians were given arms and encouraged to hold the front; at other times they were held in leash, the Turks in the occupied territory conciliated, and temporary truces arranged with the enemy. In attempting to escape from an unwanted military burden, France heedlessly embroiled the local nationalities with one another, and made it almost as difficult for them to live together after her evacuation as it has been made in the territories occupied by Greece in Western Anatolia" (The Western Question in Greece and Turkey, p. 84)

While indoctrinated and bitterly anti-Turkish Mr.Toynbee comes very close to blaming Turks for trying to free their own country from Franco-Armenian occupation, he at least gives a thorough account of the French involvement in this mess.

Finally, I have to admit that I also occasionally feel the urge to downplay & reduce the numbers of Turks who had occupied themselves with terrorizing and mistreating innocent locals. This probably has to do with a nationalistic psyche which subconciously dictates that 'our' nation is not only the best, but also the most merciful. Only if we knew...

[HistoriCAL]

Thank you for the wealth of information. Anyway you cut it, a tragedy of epic purportions.