President Ahmadinejad and Pan-Turkism

[imported_oslonor]

No, you have guessed incorrectly. This man is not African. I'll give you the opportunity to guess again. If you'd like the answer, just ask.

All I want from you is a website or article, but NOT from your blog or postings, that claims Mr. Ahmadinejad is an Azeri Turk. Provide anything: geneology, quotes, etc. but don't post some random picture, who's source is completely unknown (and probably violating a website's copyright) and expect me to see the distinction. If you clearly can't recognize people's race by looking at their pictures, don't expect me to do the same.

I will leave you in your fairy land. I am discussing with ordinary people.

[imported_oslonor]

Warning over 'theocratic nationalism' in Iran

Ayhan Simsek - The New Anatolian / Ankara
A group of Turkish retired top generals and ambassadors diagnosed late last week the development of "theocratic nationalism" in Iran and asked for a genuine assessment of possible negative implications of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's new policies and nuclear program on the highly sensitive balance in Turkish-Iranian relations.

The Foundation for Middle East and Balkan Studies' (OBIV) Foreign Policy and Defense Studies Group, including former Foreign Ministers Vahit Halefoglu and Ilter Turkmen, former ambassadors Guner Oztek and Candemir Onhon, as well as retired top generals Ahmet Corekci and Salim Dervisoglu, prepared a report on the recent developments in Iran and their implications for Turkey.

The report entitled "Our distant neighbor, Iran" pointed to the differences between Turkey and Iran, such as political regimes, religious sects, different methods in foreign policy, but also stressed that due to their similar size, power and strategic positions, both countries refrained from getting into conflicts and enjoyed rather peaceful but frosty relations.

Commenting on recent developments, the report underlined that Turkey now has to develop a genuine assessment of President Ahmadinejad's new policies and nuclear program, and their possible negative impact on the sensitive balance between Iran and Turkey.

The report did not elaborate what Turkey's position might be in a time of a military conflict between the U.S. and Iran, but recalled Ankara's decision in the late '90s to build a natural gas pipeline from Iran, despite objections by its strategic partner the U.S. "This shows that neighborhood and mutual benefits may become more significant for Turkey than being in harmony with its main strategic partner U.S.," the report stressed.

One of the most striking parts of the report was the prediction of a new political transformation in Iran. The retired generals and ambassadors said that Iran will soon face a new power struggle and change, but this will not be towards democracy but towards further radicalization.

"What we refer to by radicalization is not a religious fundamentalism. We have a new growing tendency in Iran which can be described as nationalism with religious elements," the report underlined, also describing Ahmadinejad as the representative of this growing nationalism.

According to the report, Ahmadinejad, by insisting on the nation's nuclear program, is seeking to develop potential for possible nuclear arms and also fueling nationalist feelings among Iranians. The report further stressed that foreign pressure on Iran's nuclear program is doing nothing but fueling these nationalist sentiments.

The report concluded by asking, "How are we going to define an extreme nationalist, aggressive Iran with nuclear weapons and missile technology? Are we going to talk about a new phenomenon, a theocratic nationalism?"

[Kharpert]

I will leave you in your fairy land. I am discussing with ordinary people.

Well, thanks for blowing me off without answering my question. By the way, that man is Swedish-American, and unlike you, I can show proof. This is his website with an actual biography (scroll down), not your ficticious ramblings. You expect me to recognize Azeri Turks just by looking at their pictures, and yet you can't do the same for any other race of the world?

You clearly have NO proof, NO documentation, and NO idea what you're talking about when you say the President of Iran is an Azeri Turk.

And after what I have said, about giving someone a website, document, or news article that verifies your claims, you post only a news article with a vague (and perhaps nonexistant) source that has nothing to do with your claims, and everything about stating the obvious.

But don't take it from me: every Armenian, Turk, and Kurd who commented in the last 7 pages clearly isn't buying your story. You're not popular here; you're just trying to propagate your own artifical internet fame. It amazes me that you've been able to stay here so long after you have been insulting our intelligence for months.

[imported_oslonor]

Well, thanks for blowing me off without answering my question. By the way, that man is Swedish-American, and unlike you, I can show proof. This is his website with an actual biography (scroll down), not your ficticious ramblings. You expect me to recognize Azeri Turks just by looking at their pictures, and yet you can't do the same for any other race of the world?

You clearly have NO proof, NO documentation, and NO idea what you're talking about when you say the President of Iran is an Azeri Turk.

And after what I have said, about giving someone a website, document, or news article that verifies your claims, you post only a news article with a vague (and perhaps nonexistant) source that has nothing to do with your claims, and everything about stating the obvious.

But don't take it from me: every Armenian, Turk, and Kurd who commented in the last 7 pages clearly isn't buying your story. You're not popular here; you're just trying to propagate your own artifical internet fame. It amazes me that you've been able to stay here so long after you have been insulting our intelligence for months.

Mr. Ahmadinejad is an Azeri Turk for these reasons:
1. He looks like an Azeri Turk.
2. He speaks fluent Azeri Turk language.
3. He is a Pan-Turk
4. He has Azeri Turk culture (based on Persians listening to his speech)

You have declared antrhopology as nonsense. Please check here:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/487760/thread/1155544112/last-1155544112/Persians+and+Afghans

[Kharpert]

To address your first point, for the last time I'm going to say whether he looks like an Azeri Turk is irrelevant. You must provide a biography, or family history to prove that he is an Azeri Turk. You have provided none. Your article on anthropology does nothing but make generalized statements about the distinctions between Persians and Afghanis, which do NOT come into this argument.

To address your second point, you have failed to cite a news article or document to prove that he does speak Azeri Turk fluently. You made that allegation yourself without any proof or information to back up the claim. I haven't even heard of an instance where he made a speech in Turkish, much less speak it fluently himself.

To address your third point, you have not given us any quotes, speeches, or official statements of Mr. Ahmadinejad's to prove that he does have ANY Pan-Turkish ideology in his foreign policy. Only you made that claim, without any information to see for ourselves if it is true.

To address your fourth point, you haven't even GIVEN us this so-called speech where he expresses ANY sentiment or involvement for the Azeri Turk culture.

So, let's summarize: You refuse to give us any information based on anything other than your own writings, except snippets from off-tangent scholarly articles which have nothing to do with the point at hand. In other words, you expect us to believe everything you say without question, even if there's no proof to back up the claim.

Henceforth, I refuse to visit your blog, so if you're going to continue to argue a point, give us a website that you don't operate yourself. Even Wikipedia has a higher standard for information.

[imported_oslonor]

To address your first point, for the last time I'm going to say whether he looks like an Azeri Turk is irrelevant. You must provide a biography, or family history to prove that he is an Azeri Turk. You have provided none. Your article on anthropology does nothing but make generalized statements about the distinctions between Persians and Afghanis, which do NOT come into this argument.

To address your second point, you have failed to cite a news article or document to prove that he does speak Azeri Turk fluently. You made that allegation yourself without any proof or information to back up the claim. I haven't even heard of an instance where he made a speech in Turkish, much less speak it fluently himself.

To address your third point, you have not given us any quotes, speeches, or official statements of Mr. Ahmadinejad's to prove that he does have ANY Pan-Turkish ideology in his foreign policy. Only you made that claim, without any information to see for ourselves if it is true.

To address your fourth point, you haven't even GIVEN us this so-called speech where he expresses ANY sentiment or involvement for the Azeri Turk culture.

So, let's summarize: You refuse to give us any information based on anything other than your own writings, except snippets from off-tangent scholarly articles which have nothing to do with the point at hand. In other words, you expect us to believe everything you say without question, even if there's no proof to back up the claim.

Henceforth, I refuse to visit your blog, so if you're going to continue to argue a point, give us a website that you don't operate yourself. Even Wikipedia has a higher standard for information.

Just a few points:
1.Mr. Ahmadinjead did make a speech in Azerbaijan in Azeri Turk language on the satelite TV from Tehran.

"To address your fourth point, you haven't even GIVEN us this so-called speech where he expresses ANY sentiment or involvement for the Azeri Turk culture."

2. Mr. Ahmadinejad has Azeri Turk culture without saying a word about Azeris. Culture is not related to what political line you have. It is like recognizing a British from an American. They have different culture.

Also check the article posted on the seminar in Turkey about Iran. It confirms my points.

I think you know Mr. Ahmadinjead is Azeri Turk, but you are looking for some links so you can attack those people. I am sorry I do not have those links.

[Kharpert]

You're dodging me, and almost openly admitting that you have no information or proof to give me. All right, since you're unwilling to give me any sources, I'm going to ask you for some additional information and I'll find the sources myself. But first, let's look at a quick google search. I went to www.google.com and searched for "Ahmadinejad is an Azeri Turk". The search results were astouding

I visited over a dozen of those websites, and OSLONOR was the only person on the internet that claimed Ahmadinejad is an Azeri Turk. OSLONOR failed to provide any other information other than his claim on all websites and forums.

Now then, regarding the information you gave me:

Do you have a news article or copy of the speech that Ahmadinejad gave in Azerbaijan? What channel was this speech broadcasted on? When did this speech take place, and what was Ahmadinejad talking about?

Culture is a reflection of what you think, say, and do. You need to prove to me that Ahmadinejad acts like an Azeri Turk, or talks like one, or thinks like one. You need to prove that his family has Azeri Turkish origin. You need to prove that Ahmadinejad even so much as cares for Azeri Turkish culture. You failed to prove those claims.

I don't know where you went to school, oslonor, but in the academic world, people don't believe you just for saying something.

[imported_oslonor]

You're dodging me, and almost openly admitting that you have no information or proof to give me. All right, since you're unwilling to give me any sources, I'm going to ask you for some additional information and I'll find the sources myself. But first, let's look at a quick google search. I went to www.google.com and searched for "Ahmadinejad is an Azeri Turk". The search results were astouding

I visited over a dozen of those websites, and OSLONOR was the only person on the internet that claimed Ahmadinejad is an Azeri Turk. OSLONOR failed to provide any other information other than his claim on all websites and forums.

Now then, regarding the information you gave me:

Do you have a news article or copy of the speech that Ahmadinejad gave in Azerbaijan? What channel was this speech broadcasted on? When did this speech take place, and what was Ahmadinejad talking about?

Culture is a reflection of what you think, say, and do. You need to prove to me that Ahmadinejad acts like an Azeri Turk, or talks like one, or thinks like one. You need to prove that his family has Azeri Turkish origin. You need to prove that Ahmadinejad even so much as cares for Azeri Turkish culture. You failed to prove those claims.

I don't know where you went to school, oslonor, but in the academic world, people don't believe you just for saying something.

"You need to prove that Ahmadinejad even so much as cares for Azeri Turkish culture."

A British is a British even he does not care about British culture. A British has a british culture. Persians who have listened to Mr. Ahmadinejad say that Mr. Ahmadinejad has Azeri Turk culture. That is very simple. It is like Armenians recognize Armenians when they meet each other in foreign countries. They recognize who has Armenian culture. It does not require an Armenian shows that he cares about Armenian culture or make a speech about it.

Also check the article posted on the seminar in Turkey about Iran. It confirms my point.

[Kharpert]

Still no information? Still no proof?

Well, then, that's enough. I'm not going to tolerate this sort of fabrication and disinformation any more. Consider this discussion closed.

[imported_oslonor]

Still no information? Still no proof?

Well, then, that's enough. I'm not going to tolerate this sort of fabrication and disinformation any more. Consider this discussion closed.

It is very clear that you do not recognize that different ethnic groups in Iran have different culture.