Virtual Ani

[auser]

This is a beautiful side made by an englishman, during his exploratory visit to west Armenia.

http://www.virtualani.org/

[Vogelgrippe]

This is a beautiful side made by an englishman, during his exploratory visit to west Armenia.

http://www.virtualani.org/

Unless this guy is an archeologist and expert restauration architect, his views about Akhdamar restoration is ridiculously militant. Good to know!

[Joseph]

Unless this guy is an archeologist and expert restauration architect, his views about Akhdamar restoration is ridiculously militant. Good to know!

I looked on the message board and saw only three responses dedicated to Akhtamar and none seem militant. I did on the other hand see the responses from all the Turks regarding Armenians.

[Vogelgrippe]

I looked on the message board and saw only three responses dedicated to Akhtamar and none seem militant. I did on the other hand see the responses from all the Turks regarding Armenians.

Did you check out the extention of the website? http://www.virtualani.org/aghtamar/2005restoration.htm



Man, Turkish newspapers are full of criticism regarding all types of restaurations in Turkey (be it mosques, karvanserais, imarets, bridges, and of course churches). Needles to say they are from an architectural point of view, it it is very likely that Akhdamar Church is not being restaurated in the most 'perfect' manner, whatever that is.

This gentleman, however, is immersed deeply in constipation theories.

[Joseph]

Did you check out the extention of the website? http://www.virtualani.org/aghtamar/2005restoration.htm



Man, Turkish newspapers are full of criticism regarding all types of restaurations in Turkey (be it mosques, karvanserais, imarets, bridges, and of course churches). Needles to say they are from an architectural point of view, it it is very likely that Akhdamar Church is not being restaurated in the most 'perfect' manner, whatever that is.

This gentleman, however, is immersed deeply in constipation theories.

I can't say that I disagree with him and it does worry me that the restoration is being done haphazardly using elements that do not conform to the original construction and with little regard to detail (Seeing original elements such as khatchkars piled amongst ruble makes my blood boil). I do tend to agree that the church is being restored for propaganda purposes but I cannot read minds so maybe there is an element of altruism that I'm not seeing. If this operation were to be done correctly, they would have invited Armenian architectural experts (of which there are quite a few) to assist but I don't think the Turkish Gov't would ever consider that.

[auser]

Did you check out the extention of the website? http://www.virtualani.org/aghtamar/2005restoration.htm



Man, Turkish newspapers are full of criticism regarding all types of restaurations in Turkey (be it mosques, karvanserais, imarets, bridges, and of course churches). Needles to say they are from an architectural point of view, it it is very likely that Akhdamar Church is not being restaurated in the most 'perfect' manner, whatever that is.

This gentleman, however, is immersed deeply in constipation theories.

Churches and Khachkars in what is called now Turkey need more care than the mosques built after 13th century by the installation of these people in the area and I want to remind that these r the churches(armenian and greek) and other Christian monuments that need a serious restauration as a result of violent Turkish attacks and the destruction caused by, not the ones (mosques,…) which have never faced destructive attacks.

[Vogelgrippe]

Churches and Khachkars in what is called now Turkey need more care than the mosques built after 13th century by the installation of these people in the area and I want to remind that these r the churches(armenian and greek) and other Christian monuments that need a serious restauration as a result of violent Turkish attacks and the destruction caused by, not the ones (mosques,…) which have never faced destructive attacks.

Apart from the fact that you change the subject, you are right in claiming that many more Christian monuments in Turkey(in addition to Akhdamar) need restauration. I have no objection to that. But to accuse Turkey of acting with evil intentions with regards to the Akhdamar restauration is simply manipulative militantism. Simple as that.

As you correctly observe, Turkey tries to repair mosques and imarets that are of historical value, but always faces criticism from architects and media because allegedly they do not do it the 'right' way. The same is happening during the restauration of Akhdamar, and the different opinions about how it should be done just reflects the diversity of opinion, and not lack of goodwill.

[Vogelgrippe]

I can't say that I disagree with him and it does worry me that the restoration is being done haphazardly using elements that do not conform to the original construction and with little regard to detail (Seeing original elements such as khatchkars piled amongst ruble makes my blood boil). I do tend to agree that the church is being restored for propaganda purposes but I cannot read minds so maybe there is an element of altruism that I'm not seeing. If this operation were to be done correctly, they would have invited Armenian architectural experts (of which there are quite a few) to assist but I don't think the Turkish Gov't would ever consider that.

If you are absolutely sure that the Turkish Government or Turkish Archeological Society did not request help from Armenian architectural experts, (not necessarily from the ones in Armenia, but also from those in Turkey, U.S. or France) I agree with you that a certain level of superficiality and show-biz mentality exist on the Turkish side.

If you are not, however, (or if Turkish authorities in fact had requested help and got rejected) you are doing quite a bit of scapegoating which you purportedly so despise.

[phantom]

FYI, the author of that website is not Armenian, and is equally critical of Armenian diaspora groups who had called for restoration of the Akhtamar church, which the author argues was not necessary, except for minor repairs.

I'm not sure what her qualifications are, but I understand that she has extensive knowledge about historical architecture and has been to Turkey many times visiting historical (and not just Armenian) sites and recording her observations.

[Joseph]

If you are absolutely sure that the Turkish Government or Turkish Archeological Society did not request help from Armenian architectural experts, (not necessarily from the ones in Armenia, but also from those in Turkey, U.S. or France) I agree with you that a certain level of superficiality and show-biz mentality exist on the Turkish side.

If you are not, however, (or if Turkish authorities in fact had requested help and got rejected) you are doing quite a bit of scapegoating which you purportedly so despise.

Armenians worldwide were not even aware of the restoration until it was happening.


September 11, 2005 20:37:22

ARMENIAN CHURCH AKHTAMAR IN TURKEY RESTORED BY METHODS INADMISSIBLE
FOR IT

YEREVAN, SEPTEMBER 10. ARMINFO. The Armenian Church "Surb Khach" (St.
Cross) on Akhtamar peninsula (territory of present day Turkey) is
restored with materials inadmissible for restoration.

Members of a public organization engaged in study of Armenian
architecture visited the peninsula on August 14 2005. They told
ARMINFO that restoration is in process, and the territory is
fenced. The unique monument of Middle Age architecture, the Cross
dated 915-921 (architect Manuel) are covered with tar and mazut,
frescos are replaced with stones made from "khachkars." To note
Akhtamar peninsula was the residence of Armenian Kings of Artsruny
Dynasty (the 10-11th centuries). The monument's belonging to he
Armenian culture is not mentioned, just a placard says in Turkish and
English and that church belongs to the Armenian period. Besides,
architect Manuel was presented a archimandrite, specialists say. The
church is restored without participation of the Armenian party or
independent experts of UNESCO that initiated the restoration. The
members of the organization say that local Kurds survived from
massacres by Turks continue destroying the churches and houses of
Armenians.

Anti-Armenian propaganda is widely practiced at the Museum of the
ancient Armenian town of Van, wherein a Turk-guide presents the piles
of skulls as the Turk victims of the genocide by Armenians in the
beginning of the 20th century.

According to data of UNESCO dated 1974, of 913 Armenian historical
monuments 464 were fully destroyed, 252 were ruined, and 197 need
immediate restoration.



TURKS RESTORE ARMENIAN CHURCHES IN THEIR OWN WAY

ISTANBUL, JULY 21, NOYAN TAPAN - ARMENIANS TODAY. Official circles and
media of Turkey announce continuously about starting restoration of
historic and cultural monuments of the country receintly. Within the
framework of that PR company, authorities of Turkey organized a number
of events, including a visit to Aghtamar Island of representatives of
Embassies of a number of countries accredited in Istanbul. The goal of
the visit was to show European diplomates how Turks restore the Surb
Khach Church of the island. According to Panorama.am, some time has
passed since the "works" started here, and all that can be seen at the
church, saying calmly, arises indignation: tombstones of Armenian
clergymen are replaced, a part of them is broken. All left from the
gravestones is massed. The floor of the church is covered with 20
centimetres of concrete layer preparing foundation for revetment.

According to eye-witnesses, historic monuments closely neighboring the
church were also damaged during creating a constuction site. According
to the present information, authorities of Turkey envisage to spend
about 1.5ml US dollars for the restoration of the Surb Khach Church.

The client of the works is the Ministry of Culture and Tourism of
Turkey. And works are carried out with the usage of such "modern"
construction materials as black oil is.