If turkiye recognized it...

[mit-tr]

hi, I'm from turkiye and want to ask armenians a question..

If turkiye recognized the armenian genocide.... What will occur? Is Armenia going to ask for money/lands etc..? Or what??

[Tursian]

It wont solve anything at all, I believe that it will create more hatred between the two and things will just keep getting worst from that day forward.

[Hovik]

hi, I'm from turkiye and want to ask armenians a question..

If turkiye recognized the armenian genocide.... What will occur? Is Armenia going to ask for money/lands etc..? Or what??

Turkey needs to recognize it because it's in Turkeys interests. There are a host of economic and political advantages to Turkey's potential recognition. While I agree with the EU demands for recognition of the AG in Turkey, I don't believe recognition is something that can, will or should be forced on Turkey. Not to mention Turkey will never be forced into anything... The only way it'll be effective is if Turkey decides it's the right thing to do.

As a nation, our dead haven't been buried. The only thing relevant to us at this point in time is sincere recognition and apology. We cannot come to the table with Turks for any future discussion until we take the first step.

Furthermore it's an insult for Turks to say "we'll admit it happened if you tell us your demands for compensation up front". Only the most insincere apology would come as a result of knowing ones repercussions as a precursor to the apology.

There were 8 martyrs of the AG in my family alone, but as long as the status quo remains - every Armenian on this earth since the AG is a victim of it. Adding to an R-Mean lyric, "I am a victim, a victim of time" - and denial.

It's time for recognition.

------------------------------

To Tursian, I deeply disagree with the notion that recognition will bring hatred. Did it bring hatred between Germans and Armenians when last year Germany admitted the AG, including it's own guilt? Did it bring hatred between Kurds and Armenians when the former admitted the AG, including it's own guilt? Did it bring hatred between British and Irish when 2 years ago Tony Blair finally admitted British guilt in the Irish potatoe famine?

NO, NO and... NO

On the contrary, it allowed the victimized nations to come closer to the end of mourning, and finally bury their dead. The hatred and distrust between the above nations was only warmed and calmed by these acts of recognition.

Do you have an example of when such recognition created hatred?

*The above thoughts and opinions are mine only, and I do not mean to speak for anyone other than myself*

[Anatolian-Heart]

To Hovik;
I am not really aware of the details of what you said :'Germany accepted AG, and did it bring hatred between them?' => Sorry but they accepted what offically about AG??
...and can I ask the same for the 'Kurds', as you stated?? they accepted what really?? and besides who are 'they'?? as far as I know there is no offical body to represent or to speak in the name of all Kurds!!!
Please lets be logical and honest!

[Hovik]

Kurd and German accomplices to AG admit their guilt...

Germans:

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1697&postcount=1

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1942

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=437&postcount=1

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=654&postcount=1

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=820&postcount=1

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=858&postcount=1

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=956&postcount=1

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1412&postcount=1

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1412&postcount=1

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1595&postcount=1

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1622&postcount=2

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1568&postcount=1

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1841&postcount=1

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2086&postcount=1

Kurds:

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=954&postcount=1

[Anatolian-Heart]

They are not offical recognition of Germans and Kurds!

Hovik,

Unfortunately, the links you sent are not the offical recognition of Germans and Kurds for taking part in so called AG!
About Germans; what you presented is that Germans passed a resolution about AG. But where is their role ever mentioned, which might create any friction...They dont accept anything for Germany's responsibility in anything at all...(Although recent studies revealed that, Germany as the ally of Ottoman State in WWI, was trying to push Talat pasha to take action -deportation- against Armenians, so that Turkish army would invest more in Dardanelles' war against Britain-France forces. This would simply pull Britain and France to invest also more in Dardanelles war, by weakining their fronts against Germany in west Europe...)

About Kurds; needlessly to say that Ozgur Gundem does not represent all the Kurds at all! It is only a small newspaper in Istanbul! That is it!

So as conclusion; if tey are the data that you were basing yourself on, i have to say that they are so poor and not even near to prove what you said previously...

To summarize the so called AG issue honestly again;
Intercommunal war erupted when the Ottoman Empire entered World War I. Armenian revolutionaries, many trained in Russia, attempted to seize main Ottoman cities in Eastern Anatolia. They took the city of Van and held it until Russia invaders arrived, killing all but a few of the Muslims of the city and surrounding villages. In the countryside, Muslim tribesmen killed the Armenians who fell into their hands. Armenian and Kurdish bands killed throughout the East, and massacre was the rule of the time. Russian and Ottoman regular troops were less murderous, but they too gave little quarter to those viewed as the enemy. Some of the worst civilian deaths of Turks and Armenians came at the end of the war. The killing went on until 1920. Many more died of starvation and disease than from bullets.


The results were among the worst seen in warfare. More than forty per cent of the Anatolian Armenians died; similar mortality was the fate of the Muslims of the war zone. In the province of Van, for example, 60% of the Muslims were lost by war’s end.


During the war, each side engaged in de facto deportations of the other. When the Russians and Armenians triumphed, all the Muslims were exiled, as were all the Armenians when the Ottomans triumphed. The Ottoman government also organized an official deportation of Armenians in areas under their control. None of these deportations was wholly justified by wartime necessity, but the deportations were not acts of one-sided genocide on the part of either Turks or Armenians.

[Kharpert]

Anatolian-Heart, for someone so intent on official statements, you seem to shovel a lot of nonsense which you expect us to believe as history. I'm afraid that without a book or article your entire argument is reduced to nothing.

But don't take this as an invitation to find sources for your argument. This has been discussed to death, and we can safely say that you are wrong.

[Hovik]

Hovik,

Unfortunately, the links you sent are not the offical recognition of Germans and Kurds for taking part in so called AG!
About Germans; what you presented is that Germans passed a resolution about AG. But where is their role ever mentioned, which might create any friction...They dont accept anything for Germany's responsibility in anything at all...(Although recent studies revealed that, Germany as the ally of Ottoman State in WWI, was trying to push Talat pasha to take action -deportation- against Armenians, so that Turkish army would invest more in Dardanelles' war against Britain-France forces. This would simply pull Britain and France to invest also more in Dardanelles war, by weakining their fronts against Germany in west Europe...)

About Kurds; needlessly to say that Ozgur Gundem does not represent all the Kurds at all! It is only a small newspaper in Istanbul! That is it!

So as conclusion; if tey are the data that you were basing yourself on, i have to say that they are so poor and not even near to prove what you said previously...

To summarize the so called AG issue honestly again;
Intercommunal war erupted when the Ottoman Empire entered World War I. Armenian revolutionaries, many trained in Russia, attempted to seize main Ottoman cities in Eastern Anatolia. They took the city of Van and held it until Russia invaders arrived, killing all but a few of the Muslims of the city and surrounding villages. In the countryside, Muslim tribesmen killed the Armenians who fell into their hands. Armenian and Kurdish bands killed throughout the East, and massacre was the rule of the time. Russian and Ottoman regular troops were less murderous, but they too gave little quarter to those viewed as the enemy. Some of the worst civilian deaths of Turks and Armenians came at the end of the war. The killing went on until 1920. Many more died of starvation and disease than from bullets.


The results were among the worst seen in warfare. More than forty per cent of the Anatolian Armenians died; similar mortality was the fate of the Muslims of the war zone. In the province of Van, for example, 60% of the Muslims were lost by war’s end.


During the war, each side engaged in de facto deportations of the other. When the Russians and Armenians triumphed, all the Muslims were exiled, as were all the Armenians when the Ottomans triumphed. The Ottoman government also organized an official deportation of Armenians in areas under their control. None of these deportations was wholly justified by wartime necessity, but the deportations were not acts of one-sided genocide on the part of either Turks or Armenians.

Couple of things. It's sad that you cannot see the absurdity of your own statements. The thought that these are not recognitions is total nonsense. First, you obviously DID NOT READ THE POSTS I LINKED TO otherwise you would see that: 1. The German Bundestag (a governmental body) made the resolution (which unequivocally represents the Germans). and 2. The Germans alluded to their own guilt in the AG.
Since you didn't notice either of the above 2 points, read it again until you do. If you are not going to read it, stop wasting my time. If you're unwilling to educate yourself, it's not up to me to do it for you. This reminds me of a saying... "you can lead a donkey to water, but you can't make it drink"...

Second, The Kurdish recognition was not only made on behalf of all Kurds, but there was NO (unless you can prove otherwise) protest or rebuttal by any Kurds in reaction to it. If nobody had a problem with it except Turks, how can you say it doesn't represent the Kurdish position. Regardless, a Kurdish entity has recognized the AG, and it's role in it, and that is another major blow to the Turkish denial bubble.

Last,
Your summary of the 1915 events proves not only that you know nothing of the events aside from what Erdogan and company has engraved in your brain since childhood. What research have you done on your own? from where are your sources? (these are questions I already know you won't give a reasonable answer to).

[Yavrum]

Don't these guys know that their own government at that time - that of Damad Ferit Pasha - recognized the Armenian genocide? In fact, that government actually held war crimes trials and condemned to death the major leaders responsible. Do they even have that in their history books or has that been changed also?

[phantom]

Wow....., you re know many many things about Ottomans, so the problem is solved thanks to you. Most of the armenians have many many evidences, but they think that the history is written only by piliticians or the decisions of the councils. I see armenians only in different kind of councils, they are in a big effort,but they dont need to do many many things and spend billions.
Don't you know that History is written by the historians,researchers and evidences. So if you had so many evidences why couldn't you show them in an international platform,it would be very affective and formal in all over the world,wouldn't it? And why was the suggestion of Türkiye’s assembling an international comission and opening archives in "11 March 2005" refused by the Armenian foreign Minister Oskanyan? He said "the problem is political and Armenia does not need to discuss the "genocide".So you have many many evidences but you dont need to discuss (or you can't dare to discuss). Why? two years has passed since the Erdogan's suggestion. You had the chance to prove "genocide" to whole world in an international platform, and Turkey could have to recognize "genocide",but you dont need ? what a logical answer....

Before I answer, I beg you to think critically with an open mind while you read my response. Put any preconceived notions aside for just one minute, and consider what I have to say.

Erdogan's suggestion to form a commission of "independent" historians assumes that this has not already been done. The reality is that virtually all historians who specialize in holocaust and genocide studies have already studied this topic and have already concluded that there is no doubt but that a Genocide has occured. So in essence, Erdogan was simply asking for a retrial as if a trial convicting the criminal has not already happened, over and over again. Is not the International Association of Genocide Scholars an independent body? Is not the Institute for Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Jerusalem, not an independent body? And what about the The Turkish Armenian Reconciliation Commission (TARC), formed July 9, 2001, by Turkish and Armenian civil society representatives. In 2001 they requested that the International Center for Transitional Justice (ICTJ) facilitate an independent legal study on the applicability of the 1948 Genocide Convention to events which occurred during the early twentieth century. On February 4, 2003, ICTJ provided TARC with an analysis on the subject, and the conclusion set forth in that analysis was that this was a Genocide. How many times are we going to go through this before Turkey accepts it? How many "independent" historical commissions have to say that it was a Genocide before Turkey finally accepts this truth? Moreover, the government of Turkey punishes people and puts them in jail for saying this was a Genocide, yet you naively expect this government to take an honest approach to studying its history? Please think about this for a while, and don't just shoot back a thougtless response. Thanks.