about Harput (Kharpert)

[HAN]

Hi all
I'm a Turkish from Harput and I've heard much about my grandparents about the deportation. First of all Harput was a very peaceful province with a significant number of Asyrians and Armenians although much of its population was of Turks and Kurds. It's also one of the first cities that American colleges and an American embassy opened and during the ww1 years the college and the embassy was open. Especially Armenian children were going to the college since Muslims were mostly trained in medreses. About ten or twenty years before 1915 many Armenians migrated to the U.S.A as a result of the decline in Ottoman economy. You can find these records at genealogy.com. You'll see that many Armenians left the country much before these events took place. Moreover the Armenians abroad founded organizations that supported the independence of Armenian people of the state. They published newspapers and directed the Armenians in Harput to rebel against the state. BTW During the Russian war many muslims from Caucasia were driven to Harput by Russian and allied Armenian forces. (My other grandfather is one of them) The armenians of Harput couldn't work up a significant rebellion mostly because they didn't outnumber Muslims and Russians could never enter the city. But according to the temporary law of deportation much of the Armenians were deported. We still have some Armenian acquintances but they moved to Istanbul because the economy of the city collapsed since those years. And also the young Armenians want to move to the U.S.A because they don't feel comfortable here anymore. If the diaspora stopped spreading hatred I'm sure they'll change their opinions.

[Yavrum]

Maybe you can explain to me why my grandmother from Dyabekir had to flee in 1907 after her parents had been taken to a picnic and their heads cut off. The children dispersed and her sister at 8 years old was taken in by a Turkish gentleman who later married her. Another sister barely made it to the states where someone dropped her off in front of a store on the street. She was 13. These 3 sisters were later to meet when the sister in Turkey advertised for them in the Armenian newspaper. She came here to visit and gradually remembered her Armenian language again. My mother visited her in the 70s and was told that after her husband died, the Turkish daughter-in-law found out she was Armenian and put her out of the house. Maybe this is why Armenians are leaving?

And as for your temporary deportation, why were they forced to go to the desert with no food or water? My mother would talk about the plants they picked by the side of the road to eat and stay alive. My grandmother talked about how sick they got and how my great grandfather and grandmother didn't make it, but died there along with her child and were buried together. Some deporation. Please, try to be a little more sensitive to the memories of my ancestors whose bones are buried in your deserts.

This is not spreading hatred but talking about the truth which you wish to deny us to do.

Interestingly, my grandfather came from Kharpet. I would be interested to know if there is any records there that you can look up and find out information on my grandfather's family. I have no ill will towards you. Thanks.

[phantom]

And also a Turkish Armenian Levon Panos Dabağyan claims that Armenian militans first killed the Armenians and spreaded wrong information that they were killed by Turkish officers. I think it makes sense because Pkk in the beginning killed many Kurds who opposed to rebel against Turkey. And we all know very well that PKK was a product of ASALA. I don't know how much you know about the issue but the first terrorist captured dead was uncircumcised which was contradictional with the mostly Muslim Kurds.

And that automatically means he was an Armenian ! This is why it was so easy to commit the Armenian Genocide. Turks love to blame Armenians for all the world's evils. Now PKK is our fault too!

[phantom]

Where in that report does it say that the PKK was a product of ASALA? You took a report that says they made a pact and turned into the PKK being formed by ASALA. It is misinformation like this that lead to the loss of credibility.

[phantom]

After all the damage Armenians caused in the 19th century one may easily feel hatred towards them but unfortunately most of Turks (including me) don't.

I don't think there is really any point in having dialog with you. You are truly lost beyond all hope. Insallah bir gun odun kafani gotunden cikara bilirsin.

[phantom]

Both the Armenian rebels and pkk was supported by Russians and it's the Russian policy that turned the Eastern Turkey into a land of tragedies. I didn't say thet Turks and Kurds never killed Armenians. On the contrary I'm saying that both sides killed each other. But you never take the one million Muslims died into account when you're talking about those years.

So now, not only did we create the PKK, but we were responsible for killing 1 million Muslims too, even though, according to you, there were only 1.2 million of us? Are you sure it wasn't 15 million Muslims and that's why there are 70 million of us living in Turkey now and no Turks? That's why Turkey is 99.9% Christian and only .005% Muslim? Are you enjoying turning logic on its head. Do you like living in a parallel universe where up is down, left is right, and dumb is smart!

[phantom]

I guess you didn't understand my sarcasm. Next time I'll have to use the emoticoms to help you out. Here's one -

[Hovik]

HAN, what damage did Armenians do? What is amazing is that after you tried to eliminate our entire nation, Armenians still made great contributions to the human race:

http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Famous_Armenians

[Yavrum]

I'm sorry I can't know all the incidents occured in those years and especially in Diyarbakir because Harput was a large state including many cities.(My family is from Elazig) But I read the Ottoman archives and not all Armenians were sent to Halep. Some were replaced in the Anatolian Peninsula. I don't know if you know Turkish but if you do you can find out more.
But as you have mentioned the killings of your ancestors were before 1915 so that means it wasn't a part of Armenians' genocide claims. Moreover government's authority was weak in the Empire. Since lots of wars happened until 1914 and many rebels took place before those years by both Kurds, Armenians and Arabs. To sum up the region was like Texas at those times. ( e.g. My grandfather's brother was also killed because he was Sunni ) I think it was a hard time for both Muslims and Non Muslim citizens of the empire. My grandmother's father lost his family on the way from Caucasia to Harput) See even we Muslims don't know much about our ancestors though we weren't deported. I hope I could help a bit.

"The execution of the genocide of the Armenians in 1915 was preceded two decades earlier by widespread massacres perpetrated by Sultan 'Abdul Hamid between 1894 and 1896. These massacres, which aroused the horror of Europe, may be regarded as an overture or perhaps as a dress rehearsal for the 'final solution' of 1915." From The Armenians by David Marshall Lang, Professor of Caucasian Studies int he Univeryisty of London, C) 1981.

This was what happened to my grandparents on my father's side, which was before 1915. However, I forgot to mention that it was the years 1915-1920, that I'm talking about on my mother's side of the family who came from Aintab. Hope that was a help for you too.