Merry Christmas everyone!

[bell-the-cat]

The Roman Catholic church indeed moved the holiday to Dec. 25th to take away emphasis of the pagan winter solstice celebrations that were still very much a part of peasant life. This is another discrepancey, albeit a small one, between the Catholic and Protestant sects versus the Eastern sects (mainly Orthodox).

But didn't the Armenian Church also move the holiday for the same reason? And then the date moved again with the introduction of the Gregorian calendar - but since the Armenian church did not adopt that calendar, the date became the 6th January under the new Gregorian calendar. So won't it still be on the 25th December under the old Julian calendar? Or am I misunderstanding it?

[bell-the-cat]

Coincidence! I just saw this!!
But there is no reference to the Julian and gregorian calendars, so I don'tthink they have the reasons right.

Quote from wikipedia ( yes, I hate it too, but it is handy to quote from for non-controversial stuff) : Christmas Day falls on December 25. It is preceded by Christmas Eve on December 24, and in some countries is followed by Boxing Day on December 26. Some Eastern Orthodox Churches celebrate Christmas on January 7, which corresponds to December 25 on the Julian calendar.


Lraper.org
24/12/2006

WHY DO ARMENIANS CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS ON 6 JANUARY?
The festival generally called Armenian Christmas is a holy day celebrated as
the Holy Nativity of Jesus Christ. Christmas is celebrated in the Armenian
Church around the main them of the revelation and incarnation of God,
"Asdvadz-a-haydnootyoon."
The most important observances of the Armenians in the Christmas period are
of the birth of Jesus Christ in Bethlehem and his baptism in the Jordan
River at the age of thirty. The Holy Nativity of Christ is celebrated in the
Armenian Church on 6 January. At the end of the Divine Liturgy, Christ's
baptism is celebrated in the Tchrorhnek (Water Blessing) ceremony.
A question often asked is why Armenians do not celebrate Christmas on 25
December, as the rest of the world generally does. Just as chronologically
there is no clear date for Christ's Holy Nativity, the Gospels also do not
contain one. But historically all Christian Churches up until the fourth
century celebrated the Festival of Christ's Nativity on 6 January.
According to the Roman Catholic Church, the date of 6 January was changed
because the pagan traditional festival celebrated on 25 December that marked
the birth of the Sun was declared invalid. But Christians continued to hold
to those kinds of pagan festivals on that date. In order to break their
influence, the Church hierarchy defined 25 December as Christmas, that is,
as the Festival of the Holy Nativity of Christ, while 6 January was defined
as the visit of the three magi to the newly born Christ.
Because the Armenians did not experience the problem of Saturnalia, i.e. the
Festival of the Birth of the Sun, and because the Armenian Church was not a
satellite of the Roman Church, Armenians were unaffected by this change.
According to church traditions, Armenians continue to celebrate Christmas on
6 January.
The Coptic Orthodox Church of Egypt carries on with the same tradition
together with the Armenians. However, the Ethiopian and Russian Orthodox
Churches treat 6 January as the eve of the festival, which is celebrated on
7 January.
Armenians greet each other as follows on the Festival of the Holy Nativity:
--Christos dzenav yev haydnetsav! (Christ is born and revealed!)
--Orhneal eh dzenuntn u haydnuteunn Christosi! (Blessed be Christ's birth
and revelation!)

[Joseph]

Coincidence! I just saw this!!
But there is no reference to the Julian and gregorian calendars, so I don'tthink they have the reasons right.

Quote from wikipedia ( yes, I hate it too, but it is handy to quote from for non-controversial stuff) : Christmas Day falls on December 25. It is preceded by Christmas Eve on December 24, and in some countries is followed by Boxing Day on December 26. Some Eastern Orthodox Churches celebrate Christmas on January 7, which corresponds to December 25 on the Julian calendar.


Lraper.org
24/12/2006

WHY DO ARMENIANS CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS ON 6 JANUARY?
The festival generally called Armenian Christmas is a holy day celebrated as
the Holy Nativity of Jesus Christ. Christmas is celebrated in the Armenian
Church around the main them of the revelation and incarnation of God,
"Asdvadz-a-haydnootyoon."
The most important observances of the Armenians in the Christmas period are
of the birth of Jesus Christ in Bethlehem and his baptism in the Jordan
River at the age of thirty. The Holy Nativity of Christ is celebrated in the
Armenian Church on 6 January. At the end of the Divine Liturgy, Christ's
baptism is celebrated in the Tchrorhnek (Water Blessing) ceremony.
A question often asked is why Armenians do not celebrate Christmas on 25
December, as the rest of the world generally does. Just as chronologically
there is no clear date for Christ's Holy Nativity, the Gospels also do not
contain one. But historically all Christian Churches up until the fourth
century celebrated the Festival of Christ's Nativity on 6 January.
According to the Roman Catholic Church, the date of 6 January was changed
because the pagan traditional festival celebrated on 25 December that marked
the birth of the Sun was declared invalid. But Christians continued to hold
to those kinds of pagan festivals on that date. In order to break their
influence, the Church hierarchy defined 25 December as Christmas, that is,
as the Festival of the Holy Nativity of Christ, while 6 January was defined
as the visit of the three magi to the newly born Christ.
Because the Armenians did not experience the problem of Saturnalia, i.e. the
Festival of the Birth of the Sun, and because the Armenian Church was not a
satellite of the Roman Church, Armenians were unaffected by this change.
According to church traditions, Armenians continue to celebrate Christmas on
6 January.
The Coptic Orthodox Church of Egypt carries on with the same tradition
together with the Armenians. However, the Ethiopian and Russian Orthodox
Churches treat 6 January as the eve of the festival, which is celebrated on
7 January.
Armenians greet each other as follows on the Festival of the Holy Nativity:
--Christos dzenav yev haydnetsav! (Christ is born and revealed!)
--Orhneal eh dzenuntn u haydnuteunn Christosi! (Blessed be Christ's birth
and revelation!)

Thanks for the insight.

[bell-the-cat]

In this article the Armenian Church says one thing (other Churches changed the date to Dec. 25 to override a pagan feast, but Armenia did not), the Serbian Orthodox Church says another (Jan 7th date was a result of continuing to use the Julian calendar).
So, even the churches don't know seem to know why!

The Fresno Bee (California)
December 30, 2006 Saturday

Seven keys to Orthodox holy days: For Eastern Christians, Christmas
is far from over.

by Ron Orozco, The Fresno Bee, Calif.


Dec. 30--Many churches have completed their Christmas celebrations.
But the holy season continues in Orthodox churches.

For example, Holy Trinity Armenian Apostolic Church in Fresno will
celebrate Armenian Christmas on Friday and next Saturday. The
celebrations mark the birth and Baptism of Jesus.

St. Paul Armenian Church in Fresno will hold similar services on
Friday and next Saturday for the Feast of the Nativity and Theophany.
The latter concentrates on Jesus' baptism in the Jordan River as his
manifestation as the son of God.

Although St. George Greek Orthodox Church in Fresno celebrated
Christmas on Dec. 25, the same day as Western churches, it also will
hold "Little Christmas" services with Pre-Epiphany on Friday and
Epiphany next Saturday. The services focus on Jesus' baptism.

And St. Peter The Apostle Serbian Orthodox Church in Fresno will
celebrate Christmas on Jan. 7 and commemorate Pre-Theophany on Jan.
18 and Theophany on Jan. 19. The services also concentrate on the
baptism of Jesus.

Regardless of the kind of celebration, the Orthodox holy season is
both a spiritual and communal time, when liturgical symbolism helps
congregants to focus on their beliefs and when congregants just enjoy
being in the company of others with similar beliefs.

The Bee asked seven questions of local clergy members -- the Revs.
Vahan Gosdanian of Holy Trinity, Arshen Aivazian of St. Paul, George
Gligich of St. Peter and Jim Pappas of St. George -- to better
understand the celebrations at their churches.

Question: How are the dates picked for your celebrations?

Holy Trinity and St. Paul: All churches, historically, celebrated
Jesus' birth on Jan. 6. In the fourth century, however, Rome changed
the date to Dec. 25 to override a pagan feast. In Armenia,
worshippers didn't make the change. Thus, local Armenians have
remained faithful to the traditions of their forefathers by keeping
Jan. 6 as Christmas.

St. Peter: For Christmas and Theophany, the dates are based on the
Julian calendar. Every year, they are the same dates.

St. George: They are based on the Gregorian calendar -- Dec. 25 for
Christmas, Jan. 6 for Epiphany.

What is the significance of water in your services?

St. Peter: On Theophany, water is blessed as a reminder of Jesus'
baptism and when the Holy Spirit "came down," Gligich says.
Congregants fill jars or bottles with the water that is blessed. They
take it home with them to use it on special occasions.

St. Paul: At a Blessing of Water service, Aivazian dips a cross into
water to commemorate Jesus' baptism. It is the cross that blesses the
water that people can drink and take home with them.

St. George: Pappas not only dips a cross, which is wrapped in green
branches, into water; he also blesses congregants by tossing the
water off the cross toward them. Pappas also tosses the water onto
parts of the church.

Holy Trinity: Congregants can drink cups with holy water or take them
home as a reminder of Jesus' baptism through water.

What role does light or a candle play at your services?

Holy Trinity: On Christmas Eve, Holy Badarak service ends with nearly
20 choir members using lit candles to light congregants' candles. It
symbolizes that Jesus is born and that he is the light.

St. Paul: The main altar is decorated with 12 candlesticks,
representing each of Jesus' apostles. The candlesticks also symbolize
the heart of Christians, who can show light through the grace of God.

St. Peter: Upon entering the church, congregants light candles and
offer prayers to God. The candles represent the light of Christ, who
illuminates all people.

St. George: Three lit candles connected to a mini-font represent the
Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

What does the color of your vestments symbolize?

St. Peter: Gligich switches from wearing red for Advent before
Christmas to gold for Christmas and Theophany. The latter represents
a bright, celebratory color.

St. George: Pappas wears red because it is still considered
Christmastime.

Holy Trinity: Gosdanian wears white to symbolize purity. He says,
"When Jesus was being baptized, the white dove came down."

St. Paul: Aivazian also wears white, which symbolizes the virgin
birth and purity.

How does food mark your holy season?

Holy Trinity: After the Christmas Eve service ends, congregants break
a 40-day fasting period by eating dinner together. The meal consists
of salmon and lentil soup, which are prepared by Gosdanian's wife,
Sossy, and rice pilaf, which is made by Anoush Yaralian, widow of
former Holy Trinity priest the Rev. Kourken Yaralian.

St. Paul: In the privacy of their homes, worshippers break their
fasting period on Christmas Eve with a traditional meal of yogurt
soup with barley and mint.

St. Peter: On Christmas Day, Slavic foods such as pork and sausages
are eaten to break a fasting period. There is no fasting for the next
12 days until the eve of Theophany, which is a strict fasting time.

St. George: After breaking a fasting period on Dec. 25, congregants
return to fasting on the day before Epiphany. Also, on Jan. 7,
congregants enjoy eating basilopita or St. Basil's bread.

What is the best way to participate in your activities?

St. Paul: Aivazian advises congregants to come to services on Jan. 6
with only the celebration of Christ's birth in mind.

Holy Trinity: Sing Christmas songs with the choir, Gosdanian says.
For those who don't speak Armenian, some songs also are sung in
English.

St. Peter: Be sure to bring bottles and containers to be filled with
the blessed holy water, Gligich says.

St. George: Pappas recommends that congregants pray, spend time with
family members, attend church services and do things that enliven
their sense of God.

If you're not a church member, can you go to the events?

St. Paul and Holy Trinity: Everyone is welcome. You don't have to be
Armenian to attend.

St. Peter and St. George: All services are open to the commun- ity.

The reporter can be reached at [email protected] or (559)
441-6304.

[Kharpert]

Congratulations, Joseph, on your promotion to moderator!

[Joseph]

Congratulations, Joseph, on your promotion to moderator!

Thanks Kharpert. Spammers beware!!!