The Assassination of Hrant Dink

[Joseph]

That's the most despairing article to date, yet it seems quite accurate. :|

After speaking with my wife's family in Turkey, it is basically true. If you read the Turkish English websites; TDN, Zaman, Sabah, etc., you can already see the backlash.

[hrad]

We have already made up our minds and you have made up yours, so what is your point in being here? Joseph

If that's how you feel about me , I shall depart. You have not managed too convince me about your mission in life - Genocide recognition. Are you saying we Armenians are whiter than white ? What is wrong with Armenian historians and Turkish historians sitting TOGETHER and 'getting to the bottom of this' ?

To my recollection this has been suggested numerous times ! You CANT say Armenian historians haven't had access to Turkey's archives. I PERSONALLY know one who has been to Turkey SEVEN times!

Anyway you are very clear in your mind and I am in mine. Let us both go our own separate ways. OUR goal is the SAME. You all seem to be ALL or NOTHING individuals. I am one for COMPROMISE.

I would ask you not to direct any more postings directly to me.

Thanks for having me , good-bye.

[Hovik]

We have already made up our minds and you have made up yours, so what is your point in being here? Joseph

If that's how you feel about me , I shall depart. You have not managed too convince me about your mission in life - Genocide recognition. Are you saying we Armenians are whiter than white ? What is wrong with Armenian historians and Turkish historians sitting TOGETHER and 'getting to the bottom of this' ?

Funny thing... the mission of this forum isn't to convince deniers... Wallowing in your own ignorance cannot be helped by one, two or a thousand posts by people who have bothered to pick up a book and read it.

To my recollection this has been suggested numerous times ! You CANT say Armenian historians haven't had access to Turkey's archives. I PERSONALLY know one who has been to Turkey SEVEN times!

You know what? We're inferior infidels anyway, so how about this... Why don't you go talk to the Kurds who admitted that they were used by Turks to exterminate Armenians, or your own German allies who have recognized in the Bundestag their responsibility in the Armenian Genocide, or why don't you go sit down and talk to the American and British and Austrian Governments about wiping out their archives that contain thousands of state documents attesting to the AG? Why don't you sit down and discuss this issue with the growing number of TURKISH historians who recognize the Armenian Genocide? Or finally, why don't you make a joint commission with the International Association of Genocide Scholars and try to convince them that everyone in the world other than Turks (and those they bribe) are idiots? Armenians are tired of your veiled attempts and discovering the truth. That is a process which begins internally, you have to be ready to accept the truth.

By the way, if Turkey's archives are open to Armenians who want to research the Genocide, why are they closed to non-Armenians who want to research the Genocide?

http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Scholar_Banned_From_Ottoman_Archives

Anyway you are very clear in your mind and I am in mine. Let us both go our own separate ways. OUR goal is the SAME. You all seem to be ALL or NOTHING individuals. I am one for COMPROMISE.

I would ask you not to direct any more postings directly to me.

Thanks for having me , good-bye.

Translation: We are very clear in our FACTS (not mind), and you are very clear in your government programmed ignorance...

Truth knows NO compromise.

[1.5 million]

hrad - I would like you to stay and convince us. Obviously we differ greatly in our understanding of and approach to confronting this issue. I myself though often differ with the Diaspora political groups and other more hard core Armenians who cannot fathom any kind of friendship with Turks or otherwise just have only hatred toward Turks. I'm not racist or nationalistic and I have been to Turkey several times, have Turkish friends and generally like Turks and Turkey...however I will not waiver or conprimise on the genocide issue. As you feel differently I encourage you to express yourself here and make your case. We may disagree with you - and forcefully - but I for one at least value your opinion and want to know more about why it is you feel the way you do.

[1.5 million]

More Turkish spin - LA Times 1-26-07

Turkey reaching out to Armenia
January 28, 2007


Re "Armenia haunts the Turks again," Opinion, Jan. 23

Hugh Pope suggests that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan try a "grand gesture" toward reconciliation with the Armenian government. The Turkish government has already done so.

Nearly two years ago, Erdogan extended an invitation to his Armenian counterpart to establish a joint commission of historians and other experts to study records of the events of 1915 in the archives of Turkey, Armenia and all other relevant countries, and to share their findings with the international community. It was hoped that such an initiative would shed light on a disputed period of history and pave the way for a normalization of relations between the two countries. It is only through common dialogue that a process of reconciliation can begin.

Turkey's invitation of Armenian officials to the funeral of newspaper editor Hrant Dink, and the Armenian deputy foreign minister's participation in this solemn event, and the following statements of the high-level officials from Armenia and Turkey seem to be positive developments. Let us hope that fanaticism and short-sightedness do not block the future.

A. ENGIN ANSAY

Consul general of Turkey

Los Angeles

[70million]

Reasons for Armenian problem

Nobody seems to emphasize what has actually happened and why ? Why have we lived together in peace for almost 1000 years and all of a sudden decided to deport the Armenians in 1915 whereas Armenians were very highly aprreciated citizens of the state ever since 1071 ( The date we stepped into Anotolia). They also lived their golden age under the Turkish states. They served in all the levels in Ottoman state as officers , ministers, soldiers etc before , during and also after 1915 even today. Because all the Turkish states in Anatolia since 1071 have always treated all their citizens with the same and equal rules, conditions regardless of their religion,color , race etc. which did never existed anywhere in the world and does not exist at all even today anywhere except Turkey. In all the Western countries citizens or visitors of other races or religions are always considered as second or lower class creatures and you always feel this very strongly there. Nothing like here in Turkey where no one is questioned of his root , belief etc.

Why then our Armenian and Greek origin citizens betrayed their state and joined to the allies and attacked our army and Turkish- Kurdish villagers and killed them all of a sudden. It is British politics to weaken and split the Ottoman Empire so that they can sit on the oil resources in our territory. Just like the Kurdish conflict created all of a sudden today after 1000 years. History is repeatation !!! US politics this time to split the WATER resources in our East from the main land and rule this area via a muppet and antidemocratic Kurdish kingdom. As you should all recognize oil has been the resource of the last century and water will be the one of the next.

The English did not care about what would happen to Armenians or others and started this internal conflict between our citizens which unfortunately resulted in a disaster where huge numbers of people have lost their lives from all races and religions. For them , as Churchill said, only English benefits were important, nothing else !!! just like US benefits are most important concept of today at the cost of lives of other races or religions.

I am very sorry about whatever had happened during this time. But ,I'll give you one example to explain how difficult it was to travel during that time. Our army decided to send a troop to Iran to help the Turkish people there and 15000 soldiers left Istanbul and only 150 was able to arrive there alive without any combat just due to road, climate and food conditions. It was of course a very tough decison to deport our Armenian origin citizens under such terrible conditions. But we were in a terrible war fighting in so many different fronts and could not compromise attacking our own citizens from our behind in our toughest front against the Russians under terrible climatic and geografic conditions.

What I am trying to say is that no story in the world is one sided. You cannot judge us listening to only Armenian side of the story.

[70million]

I read in one of the messages that we are very nationalistic ,racist etc. I would like to remark that two nationalist parties MHP ( Turkish ) had 8 % and Hadep ( Kurdish ) had 5 % votes in the last election. Where do you think is the rest ?

[70million]

Au revoir.

How empty are your words. You'll never understand the pain of Armenians. They are considered foreginers and outsiders in their own lands. Your state is founded on the cornerstone of fascism and intolerance of "the other".

There has not been any state in the world history more tolerant than the Ottoman empire untill WW1 . I don't beleive there can be one in the future as well. We had churches and sinagogs and citizens of various races or religions with same and equal rights all throughout the country since almost 1000 years whereas only very few christian countries have mosques since only very recently. Turks are still being treated as second class citizens in all European countries whereas Jews, Greeks,Armenians etc have always been treated as first class citizens ever since we rule Anatolia just like the other approximately 30 different races and several different religions , beliefs, colours etc. I never wondered the origin of the person I talk to and I don't know anybody here who does so .

[Kharpert]

I don't want to get this thread any more off track, but 70million, read this link and then come back and post. Realize that there are two sides to the story, but YOUR side is the WRONG side.

I read in one of the messages that we are very nationalistic ,racist etc. I would like to remark that two nationalist parties MHP ( Turkish ) had 8 % and Hadep ( Kurdish ) had 5 % votes in the last election. Where do you think is the rest ?

Have you not read anything from this thread? Does it occur to you that the wanton repression and assasination of journalists in your country makes it one of the most unsafe places in the world for free speech? Turkey is full of violent, ultranationalist ideology which applaudes the slaughter of anyone who disagrees with them and dominates the popular attitude.

[Kharpert]

The LA times did not have a single article on the assasination of Hrant Dink when it was headline news almost everywhere else, including Google News.