The Assassination of Hrant Dink

[Jade]

The crescent moon and star is an internationally-recognized symbol of the faith of Islam. The symbol is featured on the flags of several Muslim countries, and is even part of the official emblem for the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. The Christians have the cross, the Jews have the star of David, and the Muslims have the crescent moon...
The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even before the birth of Christ.

The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags...
I got this off the internet for those of you who were wondering why we have a crescent up on our flag...
Ps: I suppose the crescent on the Turkish flag could be compared to the flag of Sweden which supports a sideways cross...Or perhaps the flag of Switzerland which also has a cross. And I suppose we don't really have any territorial claims on the moon although it might have been an interesting weekend getaway

[phantom]

I) I was obviously wrong about my statement that there is Mt. Ararat on the Armenian flag.Instead, Mt. Ararat is on the coat of arms of Armenia. Armenian gentlemen who were very quick to correct and reprimand me about my mistake, of course, forgot to add the thing about Armenian coat of arms. The quote below is from Joseph’s response to one of my postings.

Article 13 of Armenian Constitution

The flag of the Republic of Armenia is tricolor made of three
horizontal and equal strips of red, blue, and orange. The coat of arms
of the Republic of Armenia depicts, in the center on a shield, Mount
Ararat with Noah's ark and the coats of arms of the four kingdoms of
historical Armenia. The shield is supported by a lion and an eagle
while a sword, a branch, a sheaf, a chain and a ribbon are portrayed
under the shield. The national anthem of the Republic of Armenia is
the "Our Fatherland." The capital of the Republic of Armenia is
Yerevan.

One forum member already stated that it is a very ‘innocent’ thing to have a mountain which is in Turkish territory is on Armenian coat of arms! He went on stating that that the Mt. Ararat symbol had been in use since 19th century! 19th century? That is when there was no independent Armenia at all. If that statement is true, wouldn’t the Ottoman authorities right in suspecting that Armenians were involving in subversive and separatist activities…? Just brainstorming…

Vogel, it seems to me your paranoia knows no bounds. The leaders of Armenia have come out and stated countless times that Armenia has no territorial claims on Turkey. Who cares if Mount Ararat is on the Coat of Arms of Armenia; it's been an Armenian symbol for centuries. Are we supposed to change that just because it's inside the boundaries of the Republic of Turkey, formed only 94 years ago? Besides, there are pristine views of that Mountain right from central Yerevan. Who cares if it happened to go into the Turkish Republic. Sheesh!

If Armenians were as paranoid as you, we would not be able to sleep given that the Azeris threaten to attack Karabagh and ultimately take all of Armenia almost on a weekly basis. Moreover, Turkish authorities just last week were reported to have encouraged the Azeris to take back "their" land by force. And you're over here talking about Armenia's coat of arms! Give me a break!

II) Instead of starting a total assault on my statements, I would recommend you to look at my previous postings about Karabagh. I had openly stated that Armenia may have a legitimate claim on Karabagh, because that region has always had an ethnic Armenian majority.

Ok, then why do you keep calling the Karabagh Armenians "occupiers". Here's your exact quote:

"Armenia abuses the genocide issue to continue its occupation of Karabagh, and about 10-20 percent of remaining Azerbaijan proper. The logic behind is, however simplified it is, the ‘damn Turks took our lands 90 years ago, now we are taking their cousins’ land’ attitude."

Does that sound anything like what you're saying now? It's like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. It would be nice if you could take a position and stick with it so that we can all have an intelligent conversation rather than being sidetracked by these moving targets.

About my other statement that an additional 10-15 percent of proper Azerbaijan is still under Armenian occupation, there are, as usual, no comments. Nobody bothers to explain why, in addition to Karabagh, the rest of Azeri land is occupied even though there were no Armenians to protect there to start with.

How many times are we going to explain this? How many times have we had this conversation all together in this forum? You were there too! Have you forgotten what you learned so soon! Are you saying that we have to remind you every couple of months otherwise you will revert back to ignorance?

Armenia and Karabagh have offered these lands back as part of an overall package of peace that allows Karabagh to remain independent and free. The Azeris have so far refused that deal. Do we have to remind you of this again in two months?

As for the rest of your post, I have nothing to add to what 1.5 has already said.

[phantom]

Changing the subject back to what it orignally was: I read today that that Keriz guy is continuing with his criminal case against Hrant. First they sue him; then they kill him; then they sue him again. If it was in a movie I would complain that it's unrealistic, but it's actually happening in real life. I think this is truly entered the realm of the surreal.

[Jade]

Oh but this is ridiculous!

[bell-the-cat]

I)

One forum member already stated that it is a very ‘innocent’ thing to have a mountain which is in Turkish territory is on Armenian coat of arms! He went on stating that that the Mt. Ararat symbol had been in use since 19th century! 19th century? That is when there was no independent Armenia at all. If that statement is true, wouldn’t the Ottoman authorities right in suspecting that Armenians were involving in subversive and separatist activities…? Just brainstorming…

A storm in your brain may be of the "bir bardak suda firtina" scale.
Mt. Ararat was in Russian territory when those images were first produced. And yes, both Russian and Ottoman authorities tried to ban its display. In Turkey, the mere possssion of it was a reason to be arrested and probably subsequently killed. Possession of it was one of the official reasons used by the Ottoman regime to justify deporting Armenians in 1915. It seems that your thinking has not changed much from your 1915 ancestors.

[bell-the-cat]

Here is an earlier version of what became the coat of arms. It's from a book from the 1890s.

[bell-the-cat]

The female figure on the above coat of arms is sitting in front of Mt. Ararat. Here she is in the original form.

[bell-the-cat]

She later moved to Ani, since that place suited her melancholic spirit.

[bell-the-cat]

Maybe she is still there.

[Jade]

hmm maybe