The Assassination of Hrant Dink

[bell-the-cat]

Considering Turkish nationalist (like the ones written about in the article) do not want Armenians to exist, I'd say it has a lot to do with Armenia.

Also, I wanted to hi-lite that you don't see this kind of psychopathic stuff among Armenian nationalists. In turn, I would hope people like you would take note and refrain from lumping Turk and Armenian nationalist as one homogenous entity. Even if you consider nationalism unhealthy, you would have to admit that Turkey, in this respect, is a whole lot worse off than Armenia.

The point I was trying to make was that I saw nothing in that article to support your moral relativism claim that the article revealed that extremism in Turkey has no comparison with extremism in Armenia.

I was not saying that Turkish and Armenian extremists are part of one homogenous entity. Nor that they were exact duplicates. But there are close similarities. For example, Armenian nationalist calling their oppponents "Turks", and claiming that hidden outside forces are always trying to betray the country, and that the soul of the Armenian nation is at stake through the ceaseless and always sinister activities of "sects" matches exactly what their equivalents in Turkey say.

And of course the way their extremism is revealed is also often different - Armenia has no ethnic minorities to be oppressed or scapegoated, no dark secrets to be hidden, and journalists aren't silenced by being shot in the street (maybe because independant journalism is so marginalised that it is already all but silenced).

Another similarity may be that the most extreme and entrenched elements tend to be within their respective diaspora communities.

[bell-the-cat]

Considering Turkish nationalist (like the ones written about in the article) do not want Armenians to exist, I'd say it has a lot to do with Armenia.

Also, I wanted to hi-lite that you don't see this kind of psychopathic stuff among Armenian nationalists. In turn, I would hope people like you would take note and refrain from lumping Turk and Armenian nationalist as one homogenous entity. Even if you consider nationalism unhealthy, you would have to admit that Turkey, in this respect, is a whole lot worse off than Armenia.

The point I was trying to make, and probably not making it clearly, was that I saw nothing in that article to support your moral relativism claim that the article revealed that extremism in Turkey has no comparison with extremism in Armenia.

I was not saying that Turkish and Armenian extremists are part of one homogenous entity. Nor that they were exact duplicates. But there are close similarities. For example, Armenian nationalist calling their oppponents "Turks", and claiming that hidden outside forces are always trying to betray the country, and that the soul of the Armenian nation is at stake through the ceaseless and always sinister activities of "sects" matches exactly what their equivalents in Turkey say.

And of course the way their extremism is revealed is also often different - Armenia has no ethnic minorities to be oppressed or scapegoated, no dark secrets to be hidden, and journalists aren't silenced by being shot in the street (maybe because independant journalism is so marginalised that it is already all but silenced).

Another similarity may be that the most extreme and entrenched elements tend to be within their respective diaspora communities.

And the key similarity is that the true aim of extremism in both countries is actually to influence or oppress their own populations. Turkish extremism may often be directed against Armenia, but its intended effect is actually to influence events within Turkey.

[Joseph]

The point I was trying to make, and probably not making it clearly, was that I saw nothing in that article to support your moral relativism claim that the article revealed that extremism in Turkey has no comparison with extremism in Armenia.

I was not saying that Turkish and Armenian extremists are part of one homogenous entity. Nor that they were exact duplicates. But there are close similarities. For example, Armenian nationalist calling their oppponents "Turks", and claiming that hidden outside forces are always trying to betray the country, and that the soul of the Armenian nation is at stake through the ceaseless and always sinister activities of "sects" matches exactly what their equivalents in Turkey say.

And of course the way their extremism is revealed is also often different - Armenia has no ethnic minorities to be oppressed or scapegoated, no dark secrets to be hidden, and journalists aren't silenced by being shot in the street (maybe because independant journalism is so marginalised that it is already all but silenced).

Another similarity may be that the most extreme and entrenched elements tend to be within their respective diaspora communities.

And the key similarity is that the true aim of extremism in both countries is actually to influence or oppress their own populations. Turkish extremism may often be directed against Armenia, but its intended effect is actually to influence events within Turkey.

Unfortunately there is extremism in the Armenian community- some, albeit a small minority- do want revenge and they are quite vocal about this. All they do is unwittingly support the the fascist right-wingers in Turkey- which are far more numerous btw. Of course, in the mind of all Turkish right-wingers, the state apparatus, etc all Armenians are considered extremists, whether we fall into the camp that wants an apology or reparations, revenge or what have you and we like you say, we are the perfect tool to keep the Turkish state paranoid and overly vigilant.

[Steph]

Another similarity may be that the most extreme and entrenched elements tend to be within their respective diaspora communities.

And the key similarity is that the true aim of extremism in both countries is actually to influence or oppress their own populations. Turkish extremism may often be directed against Armenia, but its intended effect is actually to influence events within Turkey.

Bell, these points are probably true for any national diaspora community and the reason for extreme nationalism in all nations, in my experience at least.

I thought that Crusader was trying to point out that the extreme reactions of certain turks is way and far beyond what Armenian or other nationals would perhaps consider doing. Chopping off fingers, pretty extreme don't you think?
An act more influenced by Islamic influences than turkish???

[imported_crusader1492]

Bell, these points are probably true for any national diaspora community and the reason for extreme nationalism in all nations, in my experience at least.

I thought that Crusader was trying to point out that the extreme reactions of certain turks is way and far beyond what Armenian or other nationals would perhaps consider doing. Chopping off fingers, pretty extreme don't you think?
An act more influenced by Islamic influences than turkish???

Steph,

That is all I was trying to point out. Bell extapolated his own pre-conceived notions from my post which I though was pretty straight forward.

[imported_crusader1492]

We have lived to see this day

We have lived to see this day
By Christopher H. Zakian



* A reminiscence, after a year

At first hearing, the news seemed like the build-up to a joke. Dink’s been shot? The name itself never failed to amuse me, no matter the context. And pictures of the man had always showed a pleasant, expressive Armenian face, slightly ironic, and confidently composed even amid the Keystone-Coppish antics of Turkey’s legal system. Besides, he was only a writer. Dink’s been shot? What an improbable idea. Go on -- what’s the punchline? It turned out there was more than one punchline – and quite different from what I had expected. Dink’s been shot – and he’s dead. Dink was shot -- in broad daylight, on an open street. He was shot in the back of the head. He was shot coming out of his office. He was shot, and the punk who did it cursed him in Turkish as he ran away. The details trickled into the Reporter’s offices throughout that day, but there was hardly time to greet them with the reverence they deserved. Energy could be spared for a periodic sad shake of the head, an angry grinding of teeth. But what took possession of me and my colleagues in our scattered offices was the emerging news story -- already developing in astonishing ways on the streets of Istanbul, and rippling outward to Armenian communities across the world. How would we cover it? How would we do justice, not simply to the immediate event, but also to the accelerating pace of reactions and counter-developments? How would we convey it all in a timely way, with an original perspective? In some ways the reaction was coldly forensic; but there was a touch of poignancy in the realization that the victim himself, in decidedly different circumstances, would likely have been approaching things in a similar way. It was not until two days later, in church, that the full weight of Hrant Dink’s fate fell on me. Already by that time, the Internet was alive with headlines and slogans seeking to encapsulate the greater meaning of Dink’s death. Dink was said to have died in 1915. He was designated Victim Number one-and-a-half-million-plus-one of the Armenian Genocide. He was the hero-martyr killed for speaking the truth. All of these were thoughtful, helpful, even true in their own ways. And yet not the whole truth. Even in the Republic of Turkey, there are others willing to speak and write about the Genocide; some have been roughed up, threatened, sued, forced into exile. But none of them was selected for an execution-style murder. That distinction was reserved for Hrant Dink, and what recommended him for that fate, in the eyes of his killers, was not the kind of man he was or wasn’t, or even what he said or did, but rather the very fact that he was an Armenian.


That thought weighed on me as I stood in our church sanctuary, among fellow countrymen, but also by myself. The sharagans came from me raspingly, haltingly. Surely there was comfort to be found in those immortal sounds, which have outlived every Armenian who ever existed, and link us with those who were, and those who are yet to come. But on that day there was also a sense of defiance in the mere utterance of those Armenian words, and more than once, when I felt I couldn’t continue a given phrase, I found myself forcing the words out, through clenched teeth, and at the expense of tunefulness, just to assure the invisible powers listening that our words would never easily be silenced. It was just after the singing of Der voghormia that I felt my son at my side, up from Sunday School to receive Communion. Earlier that morning, I had tried to explain something of what had occurred in the previous days, and in his wise little way he stood close by me now, without any words, as if to console the troubled heart of his father. Every child, I think, represents a parent’s desire to redeem the wrongs of the past, and to cast a vote for a better future -- certainly that’s the perspective of many Armenians I know. And my own firstborn son, named for the departed grandfathers he never knew, is no exception. But in the midst of that mostly happy thought, it came hard upon me that this same boy, freshly turned six the week before, would be no different from Dink in the eyes of the killers: equally expendable, equally worthy of extinction. Equally guilty of the sin of being an Armenian. So are we all. Looking back from the vantage of a year, it is still astonishing to me that I have lived to see a day on which such a realization could occur. For reasons of politics, which are not unworthy in themselves, we pretend that what happened in 1915 was the act of a now-defunct regime. Even the attempt to link Dink’s death directly to the Genocide seems, to me, to be an attempt to isolate it, historicize it, emphasize its anomalous, retrograde quality – as if in the passage of 90-odd years the world has outgrown such things. But the thing that most impresses itself upon me a year after the day Hrant Dink was shot is that the passions of hatred and contempt which made something like the Genocide possible, even plausible, a century ago, are still alive, still easily accessible, still there waiting to be unleashed today. I fear that this hatred will always follow our people. Certainly, I cannot see how all the easy talk about reconciliation (whatever that entails) will ever overcome it. Dink’s killers, an amalgam of the faceless state, and the otherwise nameless lowlifes for whom a moment of violence is the only path to notoriety, are in their typology as old as man himself. They are the images of enforced order and mindless chaos which have allied themselves throughout history, whenever the conceit of human freedom, human distinctiveness, human dignity, arise, and need to be put down -- violently, carelessly, with only a token of remorse. Certainly, there was reason for unexpected hope in the immediate aftermath of Dink’s murder. Perhaps one day it will amount to something. There was likewise reason for disappointment in the political developments (or non-developments) of the past 12 months. But the fluctuating highs and lows are, I fear, in the scheme of history, ephemeral. What persists is a hatred directed at our people -- as it has been directed at other people, elsewhere. It will always be with us. By all accounts, Hrant Dink was a decent man in life; certainly a brave one. We should remember that whenever we memorialize him -- and we should be grateful that we can remember him as such a man. But good or bad, none of that mattered to his killers. Dink was shot – because he was an Armenian. That’s the terrible “punchline” that has stayed with me these past months. To be honest, the thought does not keep me awake at night, or pollute the joy I find in life’s many beautiful and noble aspects. But I am also all too aware that I have accepted the responsibility for bringing four new Armenians into this world, to carry on our family tradition, and to add their voices to the chorus of our ancestors. Someday, somehow, I will have to find a way to tell them that, despite their breathtaking purity and innocence, the weapon that targeted Hrant Dink is aimed at them, too.

[imported_crusader1492]

AGOS NEWSPAPER JOURNALISTS FACE PROSECUTION

International Journalist's Network
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=25184.
Jan 25 2008

Press freedom group Reporters Without Borders has spoken out against
prosecution of Serkis Seropyan and Aris Nalci, the owner and editor
(respectively) of the Armenian-Turkish newspaper Agos.

RWB reports that the journalists were arrested after a November
editorial criticizing prison sentences given to Seropyan, editor Arat
Dink, and journalists Aydin Engin and Karin Karakashli. According
to the media rights group, the owner and editor were arrested after
refusing to pay a fine for printing the editorial. The journalists
have been charged with "attempted obstruction of justice" for which
they may serve up to four-and-a-half years.

[bell-the-cat]

Chopping off fingers, pretty extreme don't you think?
An act more influenced by Islamic influences than turkish???

A casual glance through any AYF-type songbook will provide dozens of examples glorifying the shedding of blood, and a casual glance at Armenian history and culture would show that it has plenty of Islamic influences after having been obliged to co-exist within Islamic cultures for centuries.

[Joseph]

DINK LAWYERS TO TAKE CASE AGAINST POLICE TO EUROPEAN COURT

Today's Zaman
March 12 2008
Turkey

Lawyers for assassinated Turkish-Armenian journalist Hrant Dink's
family have decided to bring a case against some of the police
involved in the Dink murder investigation to the European Court of
Human Rights. One of the lawyers, Fethiye Cetin, noted that they had
brought allegations of misconduct and obstructing justice to Turkish
prosecutors but to no avail.

The lawyers for Dink's family had appealed to the Ýstanbul chief public
prosecutor regarding seven policemen, including former Trabzon police
intelligence chief Engin Dinc and former anti-terror team head Yahya
Ozturk, with the claim that these officers had obstructed justice. The
Istanbul chief public prosecutor sent the appeal to the Trabzon Public
Prosecutor's Office, which decided on Jan. 10 that there was no need
to open a court case against the policemen. The lawyers appealed
the decision to the nearest high criminal court, in Rize, but last
week the court in Rize also decided not to open a case against the
policemen. "The suspects did not commit murder by negligence and were
not aware of the murder plans," the Rize court said.

Cetin told Today's Zaman that with the decision of the Rize court, they
had exhausted all domestic legal remedies with regards to the police.

"We are waiting for a writ from the Rize court. Then we have six
months to apply to the European Court of Human Rights, and we will
do so as soon as possible," Cetin said.

[Joseph]

Crocodile Tears

Halacoaglu is crying crocodile tears


YUSUF HALACHOGLU: HRANT DINK'S MURDER WAS A STRONG BLOW

Noyan Tapan
April 28, 2008

ISTANBUL, APRIL 28, NOYAN TAPAN - ARMENIANS TODAY. The murder of
Agos weekly's editor-in-chief Hrant Dink was a strong blow. Doctor,
professor Yusuf Halachoglu, the Chairman of the Turkish Historic
Association, stated in his interview to the Hurriyet daily.

Mentioning that "Hrant's murder became the strongest blow for
the solution of the Armenian cause," the Turkish professor said:
"If Hrant Dink were alive, I would be able to carry out the most
efficient dialogue. He was a personality, with whom I would be able
to work. I did not share Hrant Dink's all ideas, but in the recent
period some of his assertions coincided with our assertions."

"I had an idea, to invite Hrant Dink to the Historic Association
for organizing a conference. However, I was not fated to do it,"
Halachoglu said adding: "Unfortunately, the most important person,
with whom we could carry out a dialogue, was killed."