Interesting Kurdish perspective

[bell-the-cat]

We are still a people who send their sons to the army and to war with huge commotions and no matter how the state may have misused their dead sons everybody still says they would give all their 5 sons for their country if they had to. We are too much of a warrior nation at a time when we dont need to be.

well,ı believe that this must change for sure. turks must have other talents than killing and die.life has other catagories. ı would change my nationality if ı had to send my son to die for something that ı dont respect at all. ı want a different turkey....

I remember often seeing on Turkish TV the public funerals of Turkish soldiers killed by the PKK. They seemed to me to be sickening sentimental and propagandistic events - full of waving Turkish flags, flag-draped coffins, weeping relatives whose purpose there is to weep as dramatically as possible, and medal-clad generals "comforting" those relatives while spewing their usual nationalistic rhetoric for the TV audience.
The programs often ended in soft-focus montages of idealised images of Turkey, green fields full of flowers, waterfalls, smiling children, noble peasants, soldiers marching proudly, pictures of Ataturk gazing into the distance, and so on. The implied message being that the nasty PKK is going to destroy all that unless Turkish citizens continue to fight and die for the nation.

Never do these parents turn their anger onto those that are actually responsible for the continuing deaths of their sons: those generals, state officials, and Turkish policies. It is as if their whole purpose was to breed stupid sons who sole purpose in turn was to die so that the State could make martyrs out of them. And of course Turkish media never question the purpose of such events.

I’m sure all of the above must be ten times worse now in Turkey just now, what with the action in Iraq. I bet poor Lal would like to bury her head under her blankets and stay in bed for a month until it's all over.

[Joseph]

Thank you for your reply.

Armenia 'does' have problems with their Yezidi population but they seem to be working on it.

I understand where the hatred towards Turks comes from, that was not exactly what I was asking about. Where it comes from is quite obvious. As I said before we all have our sad stories from the past, Armenians I believe have a lot more.

What I really was wondering about was if Turks are really portrayed in your schools, churches and grandma stories as the evil, bloodthirsty, brainwashed, stupid Mongolian from which only a few handfull have proven to be good citizens of the world since they helped Armenians flee from the Genocide and hid them. I see many Armenians on this forum that seem ok on a lot of topics but pull out their blunt "Turks are brainwashed idiots" swords when they have nothing better to say. When confronted with their own rascism and prejudice towards others they deny possessing those traits, since doing that is all so very Turkish. So how does an Armenian get to be the person who possesses a lot of the evil he accuses the Turk of having and yet does not chose to see that he himself is embelished by it, even though this is not taught in your schools and churches?

I never would say that Turks are the epitome of humanity and that we are god send rulers of this worldly domain kind of xxxx that some armenains here quite easliy (and amusingly) come to praise their own race. However I am roud of being a Turk like many other Turks and how many Armenians are proud of being Armenians. We are not perfect in any way, quite to the contrary we have done many wrongs and are continuing to do so but I am still proud. Its probably the kind of pride you feel towards your child who knows nothing but is trying hard. We are still a people who send their sons to the army and to war with huge commotions and no matter how the state may have misused their dead sons everybody still says they would give all their 5 sons for their country if they had to. We are too much of a warrior nation at a time when we dont need to be.

This reality makes Turkish society as a whole seem it is based on a "proto-Nazi pan-Turkic... foundation" to a more individualistic and friendly Armenian like yourself. I would say the reality is far from it. Turks may be patriotic but pan-Turkic, proto-nazi????

You're welcome hitite.

I appreciate your candor and you ask good questions that provoke reflection. I also admire many of your sentiments. Armenians-many Armenians-, certainly are prejudiced against Turks. I will not deny the obvious. It never had to be this way, but it is and I think we need to blame those that have caused this situation:

Not the so-called Western powers, not the victims, not the average Turk on the street, but those who planned, ordered, and carried out the Hamidian Massacres and the Genocide; Abdul Hamid II and later the cup.

They are the ones that made a difficult situation worse, they are the ones who put the nails in the coffin of the O.E., they are the ones who made it open season on the mostly unarmed minorities, they are the ones who dragged Turkey into a disastrous war, they are the ones who erased 3,000 years of history in he course of WWI, they are the one who have created the negative association of Turks/Turkey today.

It is high time that Turkey stops blaming others for their troubles, stops scape-goating and takes responsibility. I know this will not happen, yet you cannot imagine how much this will change attitudes from the standpoint of Armenians.

To answer your fair question, I would say that the Armenian perception of Turkey/Turks comes not just from our family histories but also from just doing research and reading books about Armenian history or the history of the O.E. for that matter. For instance, I can read book by a non-Armenian scholar like Israel Charny, David Bloxham, etc and it does make me angry at not only those that have committed the crimes, but at those who have tried to hide and/or validate what has been done; ends justifying the means. You start see through the lies; Armenians were traitors, Armenians had great lives in the O.E., Armenians were protected, Armenians were all greedy and rich, Armenians were militant and got what they deserved so on. On top of what has been done to Armenians, the added insults and current official Turkish stance breeds more anger.

For Armenians, not having any closure makes the situation even more egregious.

We also witness, hear about, and know individuals of Armenian extraction who live/lived in Turkey and are quite familiar with their struggles. Additionally we also witness Turkeys continued policies vis-a-vis the Kurds, Armenia, intellectuals, liberals, etc.

Its not so much that we are taught to hate Turks in our schools, churches, etc {which we are not} its that in your formative years you start getting curious about who you are, about your family origins and then when you head over to a library or ask your grandma, etc, you begin to understand.

[phantom]

I agree with Joseph. I've never witnessed in church, school or any Armenian organization some idea that Turks are evil or stupid or somehow less human than others. If there is a discussion, it usually relates to a historical level in which the Genocide itself is discussed.

Personally, I did not grow up with any anti-Turkish propoganda. In fact, for most of my young life, I didn't even grasp that Armenian and Turkish are different people. I equated the two, because both were equally part of my life in terms of language, music, food, movies, etc. But then I grew up and went to college and then law school, while at the same time realizing that Armenian and Turkish were two distinct (but related) things. I started reading more about the Armenian people, and invariably learning about the Genocide. I still don't have hate for Turks, but it angers me that in this day and age I have to argue with Turks over whether or not there was a Genocide. It seems you have to ignore the obvious and really numb yourself to critical thinking in order to be a Genocide Denier, and at this point I am very impatient and angry with those who can't or won't think critically.

[Joseph]

IMO it is a natural survival instinct. I guess if cave men did not flock together there would be no human race

You are not a maniac lal since your thoughts are not unique to yourself. You seem to dwell a good deal on a Lenonistic utopia which does not tranlate well into present day reality since it does not offer any practical and applicable solutions to the problems of today.

I dont think the human race will unite in worldwide peace and love one another until there is a common threat from, say, Mars or until we evolve into Homo Sapiens 'Numb'us

I agree. Humans by nature are very competitive and if there were only a handful of us left on this earth, we might still find ways to categorize each other or form competing clans and such.

[Joseph]

Wow!

http://www.kurdishaspect.com/doc071008GT.html

Spreading Out, Hunkering Down

Progressive Historians - By Gordon Taylor





















This place--Giresun, on the Black Sea Coast--is a long way from Kurdistan. The mountains are greener, the trees more plentiful, the summer heat not nearly so lethal. It is more like the Pacific Northwest than the Middle East. Fruits grow in abundance hereabouts. The Roman general Lucullus, according to legend, brought the first cherry tree back to Europe from this very port--then called Cerasus. But hazelnuts, not cherrries, now predominate. Turkey's Black Sea Coast is the Persian Gulf of hazelnuts. "The Turks control everything," a Washington State filbert grower once told me. "Every year, until they set the price they want, I have no idea whether or not I can make a profit." And it's not just nuts. That Italian olive oil that you bought last week? You don't really think it's Italian, do you? Or olive, for that matter. Don't be surprised if it contains a big glug of hazelnut oil from these same shores.

This is, in short, a province humming with commerce, the last place one would expect a guerrilla war to arrive. And yet it has.



















Here is the map posted at hpg-online.com, the official website of the PKK's armed force, the HPG. Just your standard Mapquest item, but with a difference. The blue expanse is the Black Sea. At the far right of the map, past Hopa, you can see the frontier between Turkey and Georgia. Between the towns, hemming in the roads, are mountains. (If you think of Turkey as nothing but mountains, you won't be far wrong.) The map tack shows the location of the latest clashes between PKK guerrillas and the Turkish Army, near Gumushane, a major town on the highway between Erzurum and Trabzon. Previously they were directly southeast of Giresun--beyond, in other words, those peaks in the above photo. According to the PKK, 3 Army soldiers were killed and 4 wounded in the fight, which took place on 28 June. All in all, the PKK's "war tally" for June, just issued, claims 66 clashes across a wide slash of territory, with 158 Turkish soldiers killed, many more wounded, and a flurry of forest fires deliberately set by the Turkish Army. A PKK unit even attacked a police barracks in Hakkari province, in retaliation, they said, for police brutality against young Cuneyt Ertus during the Newroz celebrations.*

All the casualties, of course, are unverifiable, and since guerrillas rarely take and hold ground, the PKK themselves would have a hard time counting the dead. 158 is an improbable number. But numbers are not the point. The point is in the geographical spread. A PKK unit (or units) is operating near the shores of the Black Sea. Further south, near Erzincan and Tunceli, many other guerrillas have long been active. Add to these units further east, near Kars on the border with Armenia, and the geographical spread becomes amazing. From Mt. Ararat, at the Armenia-Iran border, to the mountains behind Iskenderun, on the Mediterranean, all of this is territory that has seen PKK-government fighting in the past six months. For a guerrilla army that moves solely on foot and supplies itself with hidden caches, this is astonishing. The PKK, which by the year 2000 seemed almost finished, has come back, with new recruits coming in all the time and plenty of angry, unemployed teenagers waiting in the wings. For this, as so many have stated so many times before, the Turks have no one to blame but themselves.

The guerrillas, meanwhile, are using the Internet for all it's worth--as long as, that is, their website doesn't succumb to vandalism by the Turkish government. Several new portfolios have recently been posted on the HPG website, and I recommend them to anyone curious about these people and their world. [Just go to hpg-online.com, and click 'Foto Galeri' on the right.] One photograph shows the late Halil Uysal, the German-born PKK film maker and photographer, sitting in a plastic-roofed shelter using a laptop connected, no doubt, to the Internet. In the background are other guerrillas working on other laptops. And these laptops and the websites they serve are fed by digital cameras, shooting both stills and video, as well as press releases, essays, and poems posted by men and women in the ranks.

Two videos in particular have shown up recently. The first shows an attack by some 150 PKK guerrillas, one of the largest they have ever made, on a Turkish military outpost in the mountains of Semdinli, near the Iraqi border. This happened in May. In the video we can see the guerrillas, men and women, hiking through the mountains. We see their mules and their weapons, but also we see the terrain. On a mountainside a pillar marked "TC" (Turkiye Cumhuriyeti: Republic of Turkey) denotes the border. As the guerrillas prepare to attack, with the target far below in a gorge, and a gun emplacement high above it to provide covering fire, we get glimpses of the scenery: naked spires flecked with snow, a Yosemite-like rock wall that must be thousands of feet high. As night falls and the attack begins, the video becomes more frenetic: streams of tracer rounds dance about; a shaky handheld camera moves here and there; an ammunition store in the army outpost is burning out of control. It was, claimed the PKK, their first "aerial" attack.

The second video is shorter, more intense, and more brutal: a piece of combat porn rather than a revealing look behind the headlines. Amid a din of small arms fire, in broad daylight, two big army trucks are ambushed on a mountain road somewhere in Turkey. The first comes round a bend into a wall of bullets. It veers off the road and plunges into a ravine directly below the photographer, its wheels pointing skyward. Immediately the camera looks up. Another truck is coming around the same bend. As the lens focuses and zooms in, we can plainly see the pocks and splintering of multiple hits on the front and windshield of the vehicle. The truck stops, and for some reason, amid this hail of bullets, the passenger door opens and a soldier falls out onto the road. Immediately he picks himself up, but by this time the driver has put the truck in reverse and is backing wildly away. The soldier, alone and in the open, runs for his life. All around him the road is erupting in spurts of dust. He jinks left, then right, then left again, his feet bracketed by gunfire as he chases after the truck. He makes it off the road into the low brush, where by now the truck is even farther away, weaving in reverse amid the scrub. And there, with no hint of the man's fate, the video ends.

And who perpetrated this violence? Well, it could have been someone like this:





















Or maybe this guy.





















Ah, but I am so naive. It's so much easier just to buy AWACS planes.
---------------------
*Revenge seems like the last thing Cuneyt would need. He needs therapy for his mangled arm--and anonymity.
---------------------


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"Defeat this!" he seems to be saying. After all, this war is at 24 years and counting. Meanwhile, as of 3 July 2008 General James Cartwright, vice-chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, is in Turkey to confer with the generals on intelligence-sharing, weapons-buying, and "rooting out" the PKK. Just fifteen minutes from my house, at the south end of Boeing Field, expensive new Boeing AWACS planes with "Turkish Air Force" printed on their sides are being prepared for just such service. As if there is any mystery. As if any ordinary person couldn't tell you that if you treat your citizens decently, respect who they are, and become the European democracy that you claim to be, perhaps you'd get somewhere in "rooting out" these

Ah, but I am so naive. It's so much easier just to buy AWACS planes.
---------------------
*Revenge seems like the last thing Cuneyt would need. He needs therapy for his mangled arm--and anonymity.
---------------------

[Perdikaraki]

Biji PKK

[Joseph]

http://www.hetq.am/eng/culture/8241/?printable=1

Aynur Dogan

[July 28, 2008]


While visiting Istanbul, Gayaneh Chalukian and her husband Jan Gavrilof invited us to the 15th anniversary concert of the “Kardes Turkuler” ensemble. The concert took place in the huge “Arena” open-air theater on the shores of the Bosporus. Leman Sami also sang the Armenian song “Bingyol”. The Armenian, Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic, and Romany, (Gypsy) songs literally rocked the arena to its pillars.
Q - Where are your roots? Where do you hail from?

A - From the province of Tunceli (it was called Dersim, or “Silver Door, in Kurdish up till 1936). It’s part of the Armenian highlands and there are still Armenian churches to be found.

Q - Do Armenians still live there?

A - Fragments exist in the form of Kurdisized Armenians. During the Genocide, the Kurds of Dersim protected the Armenians, sometimes exacting passage money, and guided them through the mountains to the Russian-controlled area on the other side. After long periods of living side by side most of these remaining Armenians eventually became Kurds as well in all but name. There are still villages that are solely inhabited by Armenians but they would never call themselves Armenian. But the surrounding Turks and Kurds know that they are Armenian.

Q - And where are your forefathers from?

A - Generally, Kurds belong to tribal clans. Our family didn’t have one so I can’t exactly pinpoint our origins. Who knows, perhaps my forefathers were Armenian too.

Q - When did you begin to sing?

A - I’ve been in Istanbul for fifteen years now. My singing career began here. We Kurds have a tradition of “wailing women” who sing lamentations at funerals, etc. I grew up with that music as a child and it formed the basis for my songs. I used to sing along with those women back in the village. The Alevi religious tradition is formed around song and dance which symbolizes the putting off of one’s self and uniting with God. This is how we were reared. Music is a sacred task for me and as natural as drinking a glass of water.

Q - And men and women pray together during the Alevi religious ceremony?

A - Alevis are not like other Muslims. The woman is the mother, the head of the family and is regarded as equal to the man. We have a custom; when a woman throws her headscarf to the ground that means putting an end to the matter, whether an argument, fight, etc. The woman has the final word.

Q - Given that Kurds still face problems in Turkey how are you able to give concerts?

A - There was a time when the Kurdish language was outlawed. Due to European pressure that prohibition has been lifted by law. The pressures started to lessen four or five years back. At least now we can perform in Kurdish before the public. But the government doesn’t assist us at all. On the contrary, it does whatever it can to hinder us. The Ministry of Culture still finds ways to put obstacles in the way of developing our cultural life. I’ve performed on the stages in various countries but have never given a one-woman concert in Turkey. I haven’t been able to. First off, I have no sponsor and secondly I don’t receive the assistance of the government.

Q - You also sing in Turkish, correct?

A - Yes, I aslo sing a few songs in Turkish. It’s the language I was brougt up on. But my identity, my internal world, is Kurdish.

Q - Who would you say your audience in Turkey is?

A - I sing Kurdish in the villages and small cities. I haven’t been able to give concerts in the larger cities. I am very well known outside Turkey. Here, I haven’t been able to organize concerts in the cities of Istanbul, Ankara and Izmir. Thus, I couldn’t tell you who my urban audience is in this country.

Q - Can you perform withouit difficulty in the villages?

A - Yes, but sometimes it’s quite a chore. You’d think I’m a terrorist or some such thing, the way I’m treated. I’m about to particiapte in a festival in Moush and the Police want copies of my residency papers, etc. I have to fill out certain forms and explain the reasons for performing before I can actually do so. In other words, the Interior Ministry must first give its OK before I can go and sing there.

Q - Does this mean then that you pose some perceived threat to the government?

A - In Turkey all ethnic groups pose some potential threat to the Turkish majority. Today, the fate of the Armenians and the Alevis is linked. They did it to the Armenians in the past. For the past thirty years they have been oppressing the Alevi community. Our villages have been drenched in blood. They set our villages ablaze and destroyed everything. They are continuing the same policies today.

Q - Where have you performed outside of Turkey?

A - In Iraq, all over Europe. Even in Rumania, where there’s a sizeable Kurdish community. By the way, this year I”ll be taking part in a music festival organized by Peter Gabriel in the Canary Islands.

Q - The songs in your repetoire, what are they about?

A - The Kurdish song is about war, love and sorrow. Generally speaking, Kurdish music is pretty diverse. Go to Iran and it’s something else entirely. It’s different whether in Iraq, Armenia, the villages in Turkey or Syria. The music has its distinctive character wherever you go. I would feel inhibited to have to add something else to all this. It’s as if everything has already been said. “Love has driven me mad. They call me crazy but it’s love that has driven me crazy. When I recite these sincere words to someone they think I’ve just escaped the insane assylum.” These are words that have been sung hundreds of years ago. There are many enigmatic riddles to our history and only a precious little has reached us through the years. But in the last few years, particularly as Kurds and Armenians have started to make some noise, we’ve seen a rather large cultural explosion. In reality, there will be other explosions if allowed. In addition, this will be good for Turkey, a country with a rich diversity of cultures within its borders. To “make it” in this country you have to be a Sunni, a Kemalist and a Turk. This drive to create a one-dimensional person based on this mold has created a host of problems for Turkey.

Q - Have your relatives been victims of the repression?

A - Many have. I have lost many loved ones, especially in Dersim. I’m not just talking about blood relations, but friends and neighbors as well. We’re all part of one big family and the loss of any one is tragic.

Q - Aynur, is it possible to define culture as a means of struggle?

A - Very much so. Culture, song and literature are the strongest of fortresses from which to defend one’s identity. There are no Kurdish-language schools. If a people’s culture isn’t recognized as such under the law, it is proscribed and difficult to preserve. The language at least allows us to preserve our culture.

Q - As a cultural activist, what future do you see for Turkey?

A - Turkey is a country built on lies. It will take a very long time to change certain entrenched things. It is vital that the various communities be able to coexist peacefully. Even if there’s a complete overhaul of the system, it will be difficult to eradicate the preconceived notions and ideas that exist within the masses.

I live in the Kurtulus, a heavily Armenian populated neighborhood of Istanbul. Everyone knows that many Armenians live there. Manifestations of Turkish chauvinism are on the rise there. For instance, men parading around with Turkish flags and even guys throwing stones at houses where Armenians live. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. There isn’t a neighborhood in Istanbul where I’ve seen the water and electricity cut, for the entire day, like happens in Kurtulus.

Q- Do you ever intend to visit Armenia?

A - Of course, if I ever get an invitation to go. I have already stated that I’d like to go and search out our Kurdish songs in your radio archives. This is the primary reason that I’d visit Armenia, for the songs. Armenia is the only place that our songs have been preserved in such a fashion. Kurdish singers have used many of these songs in their repertoires. If the opportunity were to present itself, I would definitely visit Armenia.


Edik Baghdasaryan Hrant Gadarigian

[lal]

Biji PKK

ı think, even armenians should not support PKK terrorist --and the bloodiest one--organization. no human being must support terrorizm. chechens or phalisteins or bask, doesnt matter. you dont fight by killing humans,children randomly by bombs. you dont fight like this for freedom. you can fight against military. if you dont have power to do that,you can fight politicly-- like armenians do for years against turks,except asala period-- but you dont put bombs among civil people, you dont burn forests, you dont bomb turists.this is really shameful, disgusting.

ı personally think that neither turks or kurds are civilised people. ı dont know how pkk dreams seperating turkey by these wild methods. what will 10 million kurds do living and working in all over anatolia. they will never leave west. pkk knows this. but they only work to weaken turkey. and they also harm european people by selling drugs to finance themselves.if it was possible to completely seperate kurds and turks, this would be higly advatageous for new turkey. it would be little smaller but much stronger and richer country.but this is unfortunately not possible.

armenians must not expect turks to feel sympathy to them and accept the genocide while they support terrorizm in turkey.

ı think genocide has happened. but if really armenians want turkey to accept this extremely humiliating crime of human history, ı can safely say that they are on the wrong path.

turkey can only face her past when and if she can feel safe and confident. if her people are in peace. if facing her past will benefit her,take her into eu or into something else.

ıraq,iran,syria,georgia,azerbeycan are none of them stable countries. if turkey joins to this club, ı wonder how armenia can feel safe in this very dangerous area. but again diaspora really dont care .they dont live here. this is the problem.

[Joseph]

ı think, even armenians should not support PKK terrorist --and the bloodiest one--organization. no human being must support terrorizm. chechens or phalisteins or bask, doesnt matter. you dont fight by killing humans,children randomly by bombs. you dont fight like this for freedom. you can fight against military. if you dont have power to do that,you can fight politicly-- like armenians do for years against turks,except asala period-- but you dont put bombs among civil people, you dont burn forests, you dont bomb turists.this is really shameful, disgusting.

ı personally think that neither turks or kurds are civilised people. ı dont know how pkk dreams seperating turkey by these wild methods. what will 10 million kurds do living and working in all over anatolia. they will never leave west. pkk knows this. but they only work to weaken turkey. and they also harm european people by selling drugs to finance themselves.if it was possible to completely seperate kurds and turks, this would be higly advatageous for new turkey. it would be little smaller but much stronger and richer country.but this is unfortunately not possible.

armenians must not expect turks to feel sympathy to them and accept the genocide while they support terrorizm in turkey.

ı think genocide has happened. but if really armenians want turkey to accept this extremely humiliating crime of human history, ı can safely say that they are on the wrong path.

turkey can only face her past when and if she can feel safe and confident. if her people are in peace. if facing her past will benefit her,take her into eu or into something else.

ıraq,iran,syria,georgia,azerbeycan are none of them stable countries. if turkey joins to this club, ı wonder how armenia can feel safe in this very dangerous area. but again diaspora really dont care .they dont live here. this is the problem.

Actually, its the Turks and the deep-state that give the PKK its support.

1. Turkey continually threatens, humiliates, and maltreats its minorities {Kurds, Alevis, Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians} so in essence gives the terrorists reasons to exist. Terrorists are not created in a vacuum; people who are not oppressed do not join such organizations willing to kill and die.


2. Shadowy, clandestine groups such as Ergenekon are in collusion with the PKK. More and more information is coming out regarding the relations between the PKK, Turkish Hizbullah, gangsters, IP, and the Turkish military.
They all rely on each other to keep Turkey backward, paranoid, nationalistic, etc. Turks tend to blame others outside of Turkey for the internal problems it has created for itself since it's inception.

As for the latest bombings, I'd be willing to bet that it was a group linked with Ergenekon that was responsible. Why?

1. It would not serve the PKK's interest to hit a civilian area full of conservative, working class, pro-AKP muslims who are not necessarily sympathetic to the devout Kemalists. The PKK was also very quick to deny their involvement which is something they would not do. They take credit only when credit is due.

2. It was used by Eregenkon to deflect attention away from the ultra-nationalists and pressure/warn the AKP. This ongoing fight between the AK and the military is going to get more complicated and maybe even more violent.

3. Eregenkon/Turkish Gladio has done this before in others locations namely Diyarbakir. They have used terrorists to do their bidding for years. Most Turks turned a blind eye because they were told or at least thought that deep-state was keeping them safe. The chickens have come home to roost.

[lal]

Actually, its the Turks and the deep-state that give the PKK its support.

1. Turkey continually threatens, humiliates, and maltreats its minorities {Kurds, Alevis, Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians} so in essence gives the terrorists reasons to exist. Terrorists are not created in a vacuum; people who are not oppressed do not join such organizations willing the kill and die.


2. Shadowy, clandestine groups such as Ergenekon are in collusion with the PKK. More and more information is coming out regarding the relations between the PKK, Turkish Hizbullah, gangsters, IP, and the Turkish military.
They all rely on each other to keep Turkey backward, paranoid, nationalistic, etc. Turks tend to blame others outside of Turkey for the internal problems it has created for itself since it's inception.

As for the latest bombings, I'd be willing to bet that it was a group linked with Ergenekon that was responsible. Why?

1. It would not serve the PKK's interest to hit a civilian area full of conservative, working class, pro-AKP muslims who are not necessarily sympathetic to the devout Kemalists. The PKK was also very quick to deny their involvement which is something they would not do. They take credit only when credit is due.

2. It was used by Eregenkon to deflect attention away from the ultra-nationalists and pressure/warn the AKP. This ongoing fight between the AK and the military is going to get more complicated and maybe even more violent.

3. Eregenkon/Turkish Gladio has done this before in others locations namely Diyarbakir. They have used terrorists to do their bidding for years. Most Turks turned a blind eye because they were told or at least thought that deep-state was keeping them safe. The chickens have come home to roost.

ı know that ı dont know everything. ı know that we are used by some bustards.but ı am sick of tired of this wild world.

it is not different for me ,ergenekon or pkk or kkk!!!. ı am extremely disgusted by terrorizm.in turkey,in ıraq,in israel,everywhere. and ı hate to see some people enjoying terrorizm thinking this helps them. they dont undertsand that terrorizm can hit anybody anytime.

if eu didnt kick us out--only because we are muslims--we would not fall into this deep darkness.

ı am also impressed about your knowlege about turkey. you follow the things better than me. you sound like a turk really...but you dont want real peace deep in your heart ,unlike me. you only want revenge.no?