Glenn Beck Program

[phantom]

I really do believe there is moral common ground in America as there is in many nations, maybe a little bit more in the US due to the way it was formed several hundred years ago. The Armenian Genocide is a moral question that the US and Turkey have to deal with but the outstanding fact is that the reason a bill is voted for every year in the US since the times of Truman and that other genocides like that in Darfur and possibly Bosnia are not addressed is because of Armenian lobbying and Armenian votes and money that back up this lobbying. If these members of congress were so focused on getting things morally correct they would have also dealt with other massacres and genocides with the same zeal. Since they do not there can only be political motives to talk about.

Many times I wish this bill would just pass like it did in France who we also have centuries of relations with and Turkey would not have to deal with the useless and bullxxxx counter-lobbying they do every year and kiss less US ass. Both Armenians and Turks would be relieved. But I really do not think the US would really want to lose this leverage over Turkey, that is why they have masterfully kept it in limbo for decades and decades. This is not fair for Turks and Armenians who have moronically been going after the carrot for so long.

Armenians have no choice but to moronically go after the carot, since Turkey moronically does not fess up on its own. What need would Armenians have for international resolutions if Turkey had accepted this fact by now.

[1.5 million]

Armenians have no choice but to moronically go after the carot, since Turkey moronically does not fess up on its own. What need would Armenians have for international resolutions if Turkey had accepted this fact by now.

exactly

[mrod]

Get a clue

Why do you want America's Congress to declare it was genocide? What does it matter? Is the US Congress that high and mighty? If you think it was a genocide as opposed to a civil war then you can keep on believing that. That is fine, but why do you need America to confirm what "you already know"?
If the Congress said it was true then it must be. That was sarcasm.
You are all missing the point. Congress doesn't care about an Armenian genocide they are only doing this to undermine the war in Iraq. Turkey is an ally to America in the war on terror, especially in Iraq, and Democrats want to lose the war. They actually like to lose wars. Democrats lost the Civil war--to Republicans-- and Vietnam. They hope to lose another war because they are Losers. They don't know how to win because they are always on the wrong side of an issue.

[Gavur]

Why do you want America's Congress to declare it was genocide? What does it matter? Is the US Congress that high and mighty? If you think it was a genocide as opposed to a civil war then you can keep on believing that. That is fine, but why do you need America to confirm what "you already know"?
If the Congress said it was true then it must be. That was sarcasm.
You are all missing the point. Congress doesn't care about an Armenian genocide they are only doing this to undermine the war in Iraq. Turkey is an ally to America in the war on terror, especially in Iraq, and Democrats want to lose the war. They actually like to lose wars. Democrats lost the Civil war--to Republicans-- and Vietnam. They hope to lose another war because they are Losers. They don't know how to win because they are always on the wrong side of an issue.

Ladies and gentelman see the newest way of denying the Genocide of our innocent familys by the trecherous Turkish leadership and those country's that stood by and just let it happen.
This is the latest style of American denialism that just started couple of days ago in full force throught of all media !
We must stay vigilante and carry it through and stand up to the NEO-con's attempt to deny a historical reality by trying to turn it into a political item.
They (Neo-con's) are taking this passage personally and are looking for an spacegoat for all their failures.I'm taking this as an insult and will hurt them where it counts with my vote!Lets kick some arse and take down some names!

[Hovik]

Why do you want America's Congress to declare it was genocide? What does it matter? Is the US Congress that high and mighty?

Several reasons:

This history is just as much the United States' own history as it is Armenia's and Turkey's. If you're not totally biased (sorry I have to say it sounds like you are) please take a look at Peter Balakian's "The Buring Tigris: The Armenian Genocide and America's Response". It sounds to me like you are a patriotic American. If I'm wrong for assuming this I apologize. If I'm right on the other hand, then consider that the American reaction to the Armenian Genocide is documented to be America's FIRST international human rights mobilization and relief effort, and arguably one of the most proud and patriotic times in U.S. History. The relief effort directed to Armenians united this country, and was a major theme in every American home, "The Starving Armenians" was the first international human rights problem that this country stood up to. To deny that history is not only sad and wrong, it's anti-American and anti-Patriotic.

If you're proud to be American, you should honor the proud history that is woven into the fabric of our America, you should honor the memory of those who American Missionaries in Turkey who fought to save Armenian lives even at risk of their own, you should honor the American citizens such as the Rabbi Steven Wise who spearheaded America's first international relief efforts to Armenian Genocide victims, you should honor the great U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire Henry Morgenthau whose first hand account of the Turkish GOVERNMENT intent to eliminate the Armenian Race is piled high in thousands of documents contained in our U.S. National Archives and the Library of Congress in Washington D.C. To deny this history is to plunge the bloody Ottoman sword into the belly of America itself. Are you ready to do that? Is that the kind of American you are?

If you think it was a genocide as opposed to a civil war then you can keep on believing that. That is fine, but why do you need America to confirm what "you already know"?

Look, you obviously have not spent a second reading any account of the events from 1894 through 1923. The percentage of the Armenian population that died because they were on ANY KIND of a battle front near any kind of war ground be it civil or any other kind, is miniscule in comparison with the innocent Armenian population in the interior of the country hundreds of miles away from ANY battleground whatsoever that was deported en masse and massacred brutally at orders and with the full cooperation of the C.U.P. This is why you have a 7 year old Armenian boy hiding in the chimney of a Turkish families home trying to save him, being dismembered and bleeding to death, his father shot for not reporting his whereabouts. This is why you have a 25 year old college professor in Kharpert beheaded in front of his classmates, his parents butchered in their sleep.

By the way, there are plenty of cases in the world where two factions WERE fighting a civil war, and one of the sides ended up victimized by Genocide. So, trying to use the "civil war" card as an argument for it not being a Genocide simply doesn't "hold water".

If the Congress said it was true then it must be. That was sarcasm. You are all missing the point. Congress doesn't care about an Armenian genocide they are only doing this to undermine the war in Iraq.

I haven't met an Armenian yet that is looking for morals in Congress. The Armenian Genocide has been used as a bargaining chip without end over the last 93 years, this is what recognizing the Genocide will end. We hope it'll be for the right reasons, but we cannot control that, it is up to them.

Turkey is an ally to America in the war on terror, especially in Iraq, and Democrats want to lose the war. They actually like to lose wars. Democrats lost the Civil war--to Republicans-- and Vietnam. They hope to lose another war because they are Losers. They don't know how to win because they are always on the wrong side of an issue.

A couple things are flawed here. America does appreciate and value the long history of friendship between the U.S. and Turkey. However, the failure of the Turkish government to allow the U.S. access to the northern front of Iraq when we invaded greatly UNDERMINED the war on terror, not helped it... Of course we shouldn't forget to mention the "Valley of the Wolves" film in which Turkish directors portrayed American and Jewish doctors in Iraq as organ harvesters and sellers on the black market. Wasn't that a major success in our Turkish ally's box offices? And what ally hangs a sword about their friends head and makes threats to them about legislation in their country? I believe China did this to the U.S. today regarding Bush's meeting with the Dali Lama, is China our ally? No. These are just a few examples of how recent Turkish behavior has caused the United States to reconsider the extent to which Turkey is a dedicated ally.

I should add that Turkey has a lot more to lose that the U.S. How about the $11 Billion /year in trade between the two nations? How about the vast majority of military equipment that comes from the U.S.? How about the Billions in Foreign Aid? (Turkey is like the 3rd largest recipient behind Israel and Egypt (i believe)) How about the steadfast U.S. support for Turkey's E.U. bid? Is Turkey willing to throw all that away?

As for your Democrat Republican argument - this is not a partisan bill. Support for this bill comes largely from both sides of the isle. There may be a democratic majority of signatories but that does not make it a democratic bill. Unfortunate for the rest of Republicans and Democrats, they're missing an awesome opportunity to show their patriotism and pride in America's history of being a human rights and freedom proponent in the world.

[1.5 million]

Hovik - very nice response. However I think I was somewhat out of date in depicting Turkey as the 3rd largest recipient of aid - after all there is now Iraq (clearly the new #1), Afghanistan, Pakistan and possibly some others that have overtaken it. Still it is high - the Turks clearly have a great deal more to lose then we have over this.

BTW it seems clear to me that this guy is a Turk/denier...

[Joseph]

I really do believe there is moral common ground in America as there is in many nations, maybe a little bit more in the US due to the way it was formed several hundred years ago. The Armenian Genocide is a moral question that the US and Turkey have to deal with but the outstanding fact is that the reason a bill is voted for every year in the US since the times of Truman and that other genocides like that in Darfur and possibly Bosnia are not addressed is because of Armenian lobbying and Armenian votes and money that back up this lobbying. If these members of congress were so focused on getting things morally correct they would have also dealt with other massacres and genocides with the same zeal. Since they do not there can only be political motives to talk about.

Many times I wish this bill would just pass like it did in France who we also have centuries of relations with and Turkey would not have to deal with the useless and bullxxxx counter-lobbying they do every year and kiss less US ass. Both Armenians and Turks would be relieved. But I really do not think the US would really want to lose this leverage over Turkey, that is why they have masterfully kept it in limbo for decades and decades. This is not fair for Turks and Armenians who have moronically been going after the carrot for so long.

Hitite,

You are wrong.

Bosnia and Darfur have been addressed. Remember, it was the United States that finally ended the civil war and Bosnia and the genocide of the Bosnian Muslims by force. Additionally, the US ended the Serbian campaign to ethnically cleanse Kosovo and now Kosovo may gain independence thanks the US. This continually gets overlooked by the Muslim world. Have you forgotten this or did you just not know about it?

Darfur has been proclaimed a genocide by the US Congress though we haven't been able to do nearly enough do to our hands being tied to the Iraq and Afghanistan occupations. We have insituted political pressure on Sudan, which is certainly a rouge state.

In both cases, the US has not only addressed both genocides but
also taken action. You argument that the Armenian genocide resolution hinders US action regarding other genocides is so profoundly false.

Additionally, Armenians have been very active in the last 4 years regarding Darfur. Our churches and other organizations have been lobbying Congress and raising money for the victims in Darfur. I would even go as far to say that on a per capita basis, based upon the size of our community, we have done exceedingly more than just about anyone else. I know of one priest who works day and night on fundrainsing and political awareness for Darfur only when not attending to his parish. He was even responsible for getting several large donations from celebrities.

Armenians are sympathetic to other peoples that have gone or are undergoing genocide and we hate the rogue states that committ these acts against their own people.

[bell-the-cat]

Hitite,
the US ended the Serbian campaign to ethnically cleanse Kosovo and now Kosovo may gain independence thanks the US.

You will be telling me next that Turkey ended the Armenian campaign to ethnically cleanse Nakhchivan, and Turkey should also end the Armenian campaign to ethnically cleanse Nagorno Karabagh by invading and getting rid of every Armenian there.

[chinchilla]

You will be telling me next that Turkey ended the Armenian campaign to ethnically cleanse Nakhchivan, and Turkey should also end the Armenian campaign to ethnically cleanse Nagorno Karabagh by invading and getting rid of every Armenian there.

Agree with Bell. The U.S./NATO bombed and killed Serb Yugoslav civilians. Not like many Americans cared much about that. But they started shaking in their boots when they accidentally bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.

[hitite]

Hitite,

You are wrong.

Bosnia and Darfur have been addressed. Remember, it was the United States that finally ended the civil war and Bosnia and the genocide of the Bosnian Muslims by force. Additionally, the US ended the Serbian campaign to ethnically cleanse Kosovo and now Kosovo may gain independence thanks the US. This continually gets overlooked by the Muslim world. Have you forgotten this or did you just not know about it?

Darfur has been proclaimed a genocide by the US Congress though we haven't been able to do nearly enough do to our hands being tied to the Iraq and Afghanistan occupations. We have insituted political pressure on Sudan, which is certainly a rouge state.

In both cases, the US has not only addressed both genocides but
also taken action. You argument that the Armenian genocide resolution hinders US action regarding other genocides is so profoundly false.

Additionally, Armenians have been very active in the last 4 years regarding Darfur. Our churches and other organizations have been lobbying Congress and raising money for the victims in Darfur. I would even go as far to say that on a per capita basis, based upon the size of our community, we have done exceedingly more than just about anyone else. I know of one priest who works day and night on fundrainsing and political awareness for Darfur only when not attending to his parish. He was even responsible for getting several large donations from celebrities.

Armenians are sympathetic to other peoples that have gone or are undergoing genocide and we hate the rogue states that committ these acts against their own people.

OK. How about other genocides that took place in the not so near past. Especially those committed by the French, English and the Belgians. How about the almost undeniable contribution of the French in the Rwanda incident. I dont see any bills passed through for them. What I'm trying to say is that if interests are at stake the US congress dont give a xxxx. That is the reason Pelosi was almost condemned traitor because her timing was wrong. When it is in the interest for US congress to pass the bill or if the US will not be hurt by it they will do it. Out of the hundreds of PM's around the world that voted for the AG to be recognised in their parliaments how many do you really think knows anything about the AG? How many of these countries have a noticable or influential Armenian population?

Turkey also is helping people in Darfur and we have a hospital there that has been very successful.

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/sudan-feature-260407