Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Have you heard of the Akhtamar church issue with Turkey

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
    The implication being that everything good that happened had everything to do with Ataturk and Kemalism, and everything bad that happened has nothing at all to do with it? That is a problem when using an ideology to understand events.
    Hardly... authoritarian Kemalism has only two principles, national unity and state secularism (laicism). Democracy and civil rights have all been sacrificed, and will continue to be sacrificed, for the sake of these two principles. For example, when MIT ( Turkish Intelligence Agency) bombed Ataturk's home in Salonika, they rationalized that this horrendous act was a perfect way to expell the hundreds of thousands of ethnic Greeks from Istanbul. This false flag operation pinned the blame on Greeks for bombing Ataturk's home. All the government had to do was give a reason to hordes of conservative Anatolian Turks to attack the gavur Greeks.

    This is a bit of a digression, but i see many parallels between the 1955 pogrom against Istanbul Christians and the assassination of Hrant Dink. In both cases, fanatic elements within the Turkish government shipped impressionable conservative Anatolians to Istanbul to do their dirty work. Istanbul Turks would have never done it.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
      I wrote a long reply to the above, but when posting it I got a "database error" mesage and my post was lost!
      I don't feel like rewriting it just now, but one thing I said was that egeli is making some interesting and intelligent thoughts here and in some of the other posts, and much of subsequent criticism of him/her is unjustified.
      Thank you for your tolerance bell-the-cat! Being a proud Turkish citizen should not automatically make me anti-Armenian. I was a lurker to this forum for a long time and have been impressed by the relative civility (atleast most of the time) of the debates. Seriously, there is no other forum on the internet where there can fruitful debate of the Armenian genocide and Armenian-Turkish relations.

      Comment


      • #33
        Back to the original topic of the thread, Turkification does not necessarily mean loss of indigenous Anatolian culture. When the Hagia Sophia was Turkified to Ayasofya, the Byzantine History of the Hagia Sophia was not erased. If anything, its (kemalist) nationalization helped resurface the Ayasofya's byzantine history by turning it from a mosque to a museum, as it rightfully should be.

        In the perfect world, it should be Turkish-Armenians who decide whether Akhtamar be changed to Akdamar. I am willing to bet they would prefer Akdamar. Having the name Akhtamar would encourage Turks to see Armenians and Armenian culture as foreign and threatening to Turkey. If Turkish-Armenians are to have any hopes of complete peaceful living in Turkey, they have to be viewed as Turks. As i argued before in previous posts, being seen as Turkish does not mean erasing their Armenian heritage. There are millions of Turkified Kurds, and it is not taboo for them to reveal their Kurdish ancestory if they are loyal Turkish citizens. Everyone knows that Ibrahim Tatlises (popular singer in Turkey) is half Kurdish, half Arab. Yet ever since he announced that he was proud to be called a Turk, he has become one of the most popular singers in Turkey.

        The main obstacle preventing Armenians from being viewed as Turks is not their ethnicty (Tayyip Erdogan is a Georgian muslim!) but their Christian religion. Turkish-Armenians have every right to keep their religion.

        There has to be a mentality change in Turkey if it is to become a truly democratic, liberal, and secular country.

        Comment


        • #34
          Here is something related to the original topic.
          Turkish leaflet about the 2007 "restoration" of an Armenian church in Edremit (Artemid) near Van.

          Not heard of it? Maybe because Turkey is intentionally being quiet about it.

          Armenian diaspora organisations periodically go on about neglect of Armenian monuments in Turkey (while never actually suggesting anything practical to alleviate the situation). To this accusation Turkey now replies "Aghtamar". To which Armenian diaspora organisations reply "just a one-off" (rather than the proper reply which would involve a condemnation of the destructive nature of that "restoration" - but that is not sound-bite friendly). To which Turkey can additionally now reply "Edremit", and those Armenian diaspora organisations will just appear silly and ill informed.

          BTW, The word Armenian doesn't appear anywhere in the booklet. A translation of the text into English would be useful.
          Plenipotentiary meow!

          Comment


          • #35
            Front of the booklet:
            Attached Files
            Plenipotentiary meow!

            Comment


            • #36
              Back of the booklet:
              Attached Files
              Plenipotentiary meow!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by bell-the-cat
                Here is something related to the original topic.
                Turkish leaflet about the 2007 "restoration" of an Armenian church in Edremit (Artemid) near Van.

                Not heard of it? Maybe because Turkey is intentionally being quiet about it.

                Armenian diaspora organisations periodically go on about neglect of Armenian monuments in Turkey (while never actually suggesting anything practical to alleviate the situation). To this accusation Turkey now replies "Aghtamar". To which Armenian diaspora organisations reply "just a one-off" (rather than the proper reply which would involve a condemnation of the destructive nature of that "restoration" - but that is not sound-bite friendly). To which Turkey can additionally now reply "Edremit", and those Armenian diaspora organisations will just appear silly and ill informed.

                BTW, The word Armenian doesn't appear anywhere in the booklet. A translation of the text into English would be useful.
                When the Turkish government launched a website about the Armenian city of Ani - now on Turkish territory - the word “Armenian” is absent from the entire content of http://www.ani.gov.tr/, except for some bibliography sources.


                More at this link:

                Comment


                • #38
                  Your kidding me, damn.
                  THE ROAD TO FREEDOM AND JUSTICE IS A LONG ONE!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Alexandros
                    When the Turkish government launched a website about the Armenian city of Ani - now on Turkish territory - the word “Armenian” is absent from the entire content of http://www.ani.gov.tr/, except for some bibliography sources.


                    More at this link:

                    http://www.armeniangenocide.com/show...&postcount=371
                    In the website. Armenians are called "Bagratli"!
                    The bibliography is mostly copied from www.virtualani.org/booklist.htm, which is why you see the word "Armenian" there.

                    From reading some Turkish news reports and based on the limits of my very bad Turkish, the Turkish website has been created as a response to VirtualAni.org (the news reports don't mention it by name but just mention online information, but since there is no other website about Ani they must mean VirtualAni.
                    Plenipotentiary meow!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Well I have heard worse reading comments on U Tube videos, some person claimed that the Turks were always in modern day Turkey. Wrong! Persians there before the Turks. I am sure the people who write these sorts of sites are just as stupid and racist as the people claiming the Persians didn't exist. So now they deny not only the genocide, but also that the Persians existed. *sigh When will it end.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X