Turkey's Young Civilians extend olive branch to people of Armenia

[Alexandros]

DETERMINED:Members of a Turkey-based NGO that calls itself Young Civilians are set to visit Yerevan on September 6.



Turkey's Young Civilians extend olive branch to people of Armenia


Monday, August 11, 2008

VERCİHAN ZİFLİOĞLU
ISTANBUL - Turkish Daily News


Turkish President Abdullah Gül has yet to respond to Armenian President Serge Sarkisian's invitation to join him for the Turkey-Armenia football game to be held in Yerevan on September 6.

But a Turkey-based nongovernmental organization that calls itself Young Civilians --not only because they are a group of youths-- has already decided to be in the capital city of Armenia on that date in order to form a peace bridge between the two countries.

Young Civilians has already prepared their meters-long banners containing messages of friendship and peace to be waved during the game.

What prompted Young Civilians to take such actions was the peaceful and objective attitude of two broadcasters from Armenia's Radio Liberty, Erik Gazharian and Karlen Arslanian, whose remarks on relations between Turkey and Armenia were published in the Turkish Daily News last week. The main goal of Young Civilians is to participate in joint projects with a young, dynamic Armenian-based group that includes Gazharian and Arslanian.

Formed in 2000, the Young Civilians, whose members include Turgay Oğur, Hayri İnce, Erkan Şen, Ceren Kenar, and Said Albayrak, has issued the following statement to the people of Armenia:

“That our president has given a positive reply to the invitation is definitely an important step. But more important than that is establishing a dialogue between the two peoples: the Turks and the Armenians. We are not politicians. But we will be in Yerevan on September 6 in the name of peace and friendship. Fifty of us will be there to form a bridge. But hundreds of us will follow in the near future.”

The Young Civilians, with 2000 members, has dedicated themselves to establishing peace and harmony among peoples of different faiths and cultures. Their organization's website is www.gencsiviller.net

“We listen to the voice of our conscience,” says a representative from Young Civilians.

“Some ears might not perceive Karlen's and Erik's voice as a strong one. But to us, their voice is one free from hatred and enmity. We were deeply impressed when we read the interview in which these two strong and self-confident young people from Armenia expressed themselves and the way they look with hope to the future, without denying the past.”


‘Even historians cannot solve the problem'

Young Civilians described what happened in the past as “painful events.” “As Karlen and Erik pointed out, no matter what words you utter to describe those events in history, they would not alleviate the pain caused by them,” they said. Young Civilians do not concur with the common idea that only historians from Armenia and Turkey can solve the Armenian issue. “Traumas can only be overcome through mutual understanding, having close contacts, sharing the pains, and listening to each other,” they said. “For historians, too, voice an official rhetoric just as politicians do,” they added.Young Civilians also noted Turkey has taken a leap in consolidating freedom of expression. “We have begun, for some time, debating about our thoughts freely in Turkey. The biggest problem between the Turks and the Armenians is just a lack of a healthy and full-fledged communication. We, members of the two societies, might begin a dialogue by detaching ourselves from politics. We truly do not need official ideologies anymore.”

Young Civilians and Istanbul-born young Armenians to stand shoulder to shoulder Kenar, a member of the Young Civilians, referred to the recently burgeoning dialogue between Turkey and Greece, putting aside past political tensions. “Let's recall the past years, when we, Turks and Greeks, came to the brink of war because of the Kardak Rocks, just some small rocks on the Aegean Sea. But today, we are extending olive branches to each other and again becoming immersed in each other's songs,” she said. She notes that she has a sister who is six years old and, therefore, never witnessed a moment in history when Turkey and Greece were on the brink of war. “So, why shouldn't such normalization take place in Turkey-Armenia relations, as well, within ten years, for instance. I see no obstacles to that,” she added. Albayrak, Şen, Oğur, and İnce agree with Kenar. They made the following remark:“Our consciences and hearts will produce a peaceful and harmonious future. We would like young people of Armenia to help us in accomplishing that. We want to live in peace and harmony with our neighbors.”Yong Civilians said they would also take their Istanbul-born Armenian friends to Yerevan to watch the football game together. “There, in that stadium, we shall stand shoulder to shoulder, together with our friends from the Armenian community of Istanbul. And we shall, altogether, cry out for peace and friendliness. In fact, we shall be hugging each other in that stadium as Hrant would do if he had lived.”


Source

[Pedro Xaramillo]

It sounds positive

Maybe it will be positive and helpful and maybe these kids will see the Armenian perspective, I just hope Turkey is not going to use this as a "look how good we are to the Armenians" act. But maybe they will bring some positive change in Turkey

[hitite]

But we will be in Yerevan on September 6 in the name of peace and friendship. Fifty of us will be there to form a bridge. But hundreds of us will follow in the near future.”
Source

Hundreds will follow ???.....Are you guys sure you want to let these guys in. Sounds like Ottoman style expansion tactics to me.

Are there going to be denial tests at the airport?

How does the diaspora feel about the Armenian presidents invitation and the fact that he will be sitting with a cryin' out loud denier for 90 minutes?

[Gavur]

A state of denial, is but a temporary stage of evolution.

[hitite]

How does the diaspora feel about the Armenian presidents invitation and the fact that he will be sitting with a cryin' out loud denier for 90 minutes?

Well president Gül accepted the Armenian presidents invitation to go to the football match in Erivan. There were a number of internet polls on whether he should go or not and results were nearly 50-50 with a little bit leaning towards the "he shouldnt go".

What does the diaspora and the proper think about it?

[Edoman]

This is very nice and they should be made welcome but let’s never loose sight again who the real Turks are. The Democratic face of Turkey is nothing but a front to get into the EU which they are failing miserably. We know the Gray Wolfs, Ergenekon, the “state within”, Turkish fascism, Islamic Extremism, human rights abuses of their minorities and the major officials behind them. How many people have gone missing this year in Turkey after they were arrested by police?
They still believe strongly that Turkey is facing existential threats. Kurds, Armenians, Jews, Greeks, missionaries, non-nationalist Muslims — anybody who falls outside the narrow definition of a “good Turk” — are all seen as “internal enemies,” who are in bed with the external ones — the Europeans, the Americans, Iraqi Kurds, and, actually, the whole world, and they all must be dealt with.

[Joseph]

Well president Gül accepted the Armenian presidents invitation to go to the football match in Erivan. There were a number of internet polls on whether he should go or not and results were nearly 50-50 with a little bit leaning towards the "he shouldnt go".

What does the diaspora and the proper think about it?

From what I have seen/heard most Armenians are positive regarding the visit; both in Armenian and the diaspora. It seems that finally there is a realization that even though Turkey and Armenia are worlds apart on many issues, they must eventually have diplomatic relations otherwise there will be no movement whatsoever. I don't think anything will necessarily be solved, at least anytime soon, but even enemies trade ambassadors.

I could be wrong but I think the following considerations may have been made by Turkey:

1. To the outside world, we look like a bully. A nation of 70MM that bullies 3MM.
2. If India and pakistan, can have relations, why not Armenian and Turkey. You can almost guarantee no movement with political dialogue.
3. After Russia's action in Ossetia and Abkhazia, we need to rethink position vis a vis Artsakh. Russia really is the guarantor of Armenia in case of a Turkish or Azeri attack and the Russians do mean business. Russia's latest actions have also made many in the region re-assess their relations with the US. The Russians are not getting any weaker.
4. The Georgian situation is not going to get any more stable or reliable as Russia is now determined to overthrow Saakashvili and harass Georgia so maybe relations with Armenia would provide a better communications/trade route eventually.

[Gavur]

Well president Gül accepted the Armenian presidents invitation to go to the football match in Erivan. There were a number of internet polls on whether he should go or not and results were nearly 50-50 with a little bit leaning towards the "he shouldnt go".

What does the diaspora and the proper think about it?

It should be a rosy match.

[Joseph]

Turkey not ready to reconcile with bloody past: analysts

Agence France Presse -- English
September 5, 2008 Friday 2:36 AM GMT

Turkey not ready to reconcile with bloody past: analysts

by Hande Culpan
ANKARA, Sept 5 2008


Turkish President Abdullah Gul's visit Saturday to Armenia is a brave
step, but it is unrealistic to expect Ankara to reconcile soon with a
bloody past that has poisoned ties with Yerevan, analysts say.

In a first for Turkish diplomacy, Gul will fly to Armenia on Saturday
to watch a qualifying match between the two countries for the 2010
World Cup finals upon an invitation from his Armenian counterpart
Serzh Sarkisian.

"Gul's visit is a bold move, but one should not expect much from it,"
said Cengiz Aktar, an international affairs expert at Istanbul's
Bahcesehir University.

"First of all, there is no a real desire in Turkey to make peace with
Armenia and the atmosphere is not suitable for ground-breaking moves,"
he explained.

Turkey and Armenia, two neighbours with no diplomatic relations, have
long been held hostage by their common tragic past: Yerevan claims
that up to 1.5 million Armenians perished in systematic killings
between 1915 and 1917 as the Ottoman Empire, the predecessor of modern
Turkey was falling apart.

Ankara categorically denies the genocide label and argues that 300,000
Armenians and at least as many Turks died in civil strife during World
war I when Armenians revolted against Ottoman rule and sided with
invading Russian troops, resulting in an order to deport them em masse
from their homelands.

The Armenian question for years remained a taboo in Turkey with school
books mentioning in a brief paragraph a problematic people who were
sent into forced exile for betraying the Ottomans and clearing Turks
of all guilt for their deaths.

Only recently have Turks -- albeit only liberal-minded intellectuals
and the educated elite -- begun to question the official line and
alternative books re-examining Turkish history have begun to hit the
shelves.

But the self-reflection has yet to spread to rural parts of Turkey
where many still believe deeply in official nationalist history.

"Fundamentally, the Turkish population is deeply nationalistic and one
of the founding stones of the Turkish nationalistic streak is
animosity to Armenians," Aktar said.

Last year, ethnic Armenian journalist Hrant Dink, reviled by many for
calling the Armenian killings a genocide, was shot dead outside his
office in Istanbul by an ultra-nationalist youth.

Several intellectuals, among them Turkey's first Nobel laureate Orhan
Pamuk, were recently tried in court for remarks contesting Ankara's
version of the events.

"The loss of Hrant opened the way for Turkish people to come closer
mentally to discussing what happened in those years, but politically
we are still far from any reconciliation with the past," said Etyen
Mahcupyan, who replaced Dink as chief editor of the Armenian newspaper
Agos.

The government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is too weak to
make any ground-breaking moves.

The Islamist-rooted ruling party has only just survived a legal bid
seeking its closure; it is under pressure over a controversial
investigation into an ultra-nationalist gang and the influential
army's top brass has begun to step up warnings of rising Islamist
threats to the secular country.

"There needs to be a period of stability in order to see clearly
ahead. Turkey is lacking that at the moment and that is why it is
unable to discuss the past," Mahcupyan said.

The Armenians massacres is also fodder for domestic politics on both
sides of the border, preventing an honest discussion of the issue, he
explained, as seen by opposition parties attacking Gul even before he
confirmed his visit.

Turkey was one of the first countries to recognise Armeania when it
gained independence in 1991 but no diplomatic relations were
established because of Armenian efforts to have the killings
internationally recognised as genocide.

In 1993, Turkey also shut its border with Armenia in a show of
solidarity with Azerbaijan, which was at war with Armenia over the
Nagorny-Karabakh enclave.
__________________

[Gavur]

Turkey not ready to reconcile with bloody past: analysts



Turkey was one of the first countries to recognise Armeania when it
gained independence in 1991 but no diplomatic relations were
established because of Armenian efforts to have the killings
internationally recognised as genocide.


__________________

If I'm not mistaken it took Turkey year and a half to recognize Armenia.