Hey Everyone

[Sako]

Barev Joghovurd Jan. I hope you all are doing great when you read this.

It's my first time on an Armenian forum which I've been reading for more then an hour yesterday. I thought I might join. Well, let me introduce myself.

My name is Sarkis and I was born on the 21st of September, 1990. I have a younger sister and brother, me being the oldest in the family and of course my mom and dad. Since then, I've moved a lot around the world, more then eight years in India, five years in the US, and other countries at different periods throughout the years. My family has been the traveling type for a long time which has been quite the experience, allowing me to bond with many different types of people with different religions, cultures, and manners, understanding the world and how it works pretty fast. Some trips were because we got exceptional chances to go on them and the others were business based you can say. In these eighteen years, I've come to Armenia only a few times, maybe 3-4 years altogether with intervals. Now I'm back and I've already been here with my family for 2 years. We’ve settled down and I can truthfully say that it feels refreshing. I know Armenian since my mom taught it in America to me, my brother, and my sister, sometimes forcefully, which I’m thankful for. It's difficult learning a language you don't use at the immediate time. I'm studying here now and I've finished school elsewhere. Naturally, my English is better then my Armenian although I can speak without any problems in expressing myself. I'm a computer designer, having been on computers since I could crawl and that's my career. I'm also a musician, love music which is an undividable part of me, basketball, history, writing, acting, and a few other things that define who I am in many ways. Anyways, all these years, I've been to countless places but Armenia is a place that is definitely exceptional. It may not be the best place but it's a little place ... I like to call home.

I’ve read many of the articles on this site and some were very interesting. Although I’ve been away from Armenia for such a long time, the love and respect I have for it hasn’t decreased but has rather gone much higher. Some of my thoughts on what’s going on right now and what I believe in are as follows.

I believe and I’m not afraid to say KNOW that the Genocide took place. People can call it karma, call it massacre, call it whatever, but the fact is, it happened. Right now, what we live by is the past. I don’t believe in living by the past NOR the future. Rather, I believe in living in the preset although at times, we all like to dream or must go back to the past which makes us human and gives us priorities or sets some for us. They say, “Forgive and Forget”. I say, “Forgive but never Forget”. The Genocide or incidents like that weren’t and will never be just some memories that some don’t like to remember or talk about. It’s neither just “something” that happened. It’s because of those Armenians and yes, even many Turks, that not I but WE are alive today and forgetting what they did is like letting dust pile on the mirror that we look in, not being able to then see who we are. Not only Turks but Americans, Russians, and people from lots of other countries. When we forget what happened, we are that much closer to making the same mistakes made back then, again. For that reason, we must look at ourselves in our mirrors and forgive, never forgetting those that gave us the opportunity to do so. Our past is our present but not the future. We can change that but shouldn’t at the expense of losing our identities.

The Armenians that died in the Genocide will only die when we forget about them and blindly forgive. True forgiveness is forgiving with understanding. It’s easy forgetting what happened and accepting blind apologies but its hard forgiving with understanding and realization of what happened. When there isn’t wine on the table, you can’t say you don’t drink because there isn’t any wine to drink whatsoever. In the same way, if you don’t face the past, looking straight and upright into the mirror, you won’t be able to forgive or understand what happened or who you really are. The identity that no amount of makeup, clothes, or passport’s can diminish. Facing it is no easy business but fear is not an option because fear of the past and present generates fear in the future. Once a person puts himself in the shoes of the person that has lost the person he/she has loved, only then will he/she have the right to forgive or not to forgive or in many (maybe all) cases, even talk about it. The rest is just everyday words that we have the ability to use. All of us, including our countries, have good and bad sides we hold on to but all problems must be faced at one point or another. We have all made mistakes as a country, family, and as individuals but the only solution to facing those problems is accepting what happened. We won’t be on this earth forever. We must go someday, one day, maybe today, but we will never stay. What will stay is what we do. The difference we make which isn’t as hard as it seems. A real mistake is making the SAME mistake again, having not learned a lesson from it. Our grandfathers, good or bad, all made their mistakes hoping and trying, in their own ways, good or bad, to create a better future.

What we have now is what we’re standing on and in the end it’s us that make the decisions and choices. We won’t be able to stand in front of God and say my government told me not to do something or this person told me not to OR even worse, some people changed my mind. We are, even as we speak, designing our future. Let’s make it a bright one and not respect each other as a WHOLE or something, that will never happen, but with distinction and RESPECT towards differences and those very same distinctions. Many people don’t understand why Armenians or people that have gone through a lot, fight after all this time. We fight because the truth and future I just described is powerful. We fight because those are the things really worth fighting for with every breath and all we’ve got. That battle will never end.

Hope all of you are still awake, haha. All the same, I’m proud to be an Armenian and I wish you all the best, looking forward to talking to all of you soon. Thanks for listening and not giving up.

[Steph]

Barev Joghovurd Jan. I hope you all are doing great when you read this.

Welcome Saco, really nice opening post.

[Joseph]

Barev Joghovurd Jan. I hope you all are doing great when you read this.

It's my first time on an Armenian forum which I've been reading for more then an hour yesterday. I thought I might join. Well, let me introduce myself.

My name is Sarkis and I was born on the 21st of September, 1990. I have a younger sister and brother, me being the oldest in the family and of course my mom and dad. Since then, I've moved a lot around the world, more then eight years in India, five years in the US, and other countries at different periods throughout the years. My family has been the traveling type for a long time which has been quite the experience, allowing me to bond with many different types of people with different religions, cultures, and manners, understanding the world and how it works pretty fast. Some trips were because we got exceptional chances to go on them and the others were business based you can say. In these eighteen years, I've come to Armenia only a few times, maybe 3-4 years altogether with intervals. Now I'm back and I've already been here with my family for 2 years. We’ve settled down and I can truthfully say that it feels refreshing. I know Armenian since my mom taught it in America to me, my brother, and my sister, sometimes forcefully, which I’m thankful for. It's difficult learning a language you don't use at the immediate time. I'm studying here now and I've finished school elsewhere. Naturally, my English is better then my Armenian although I can speak without any problems in expressing myself. I'm a computer designer, having been on computers since I could crawl and that's my career. I'm also a musician, love music which is an undividable part of me, basketball, history, writing, acting, and a few other things that define who I am in many ways. Anyways, all these years, I've been to countless places but Armenia is a place that is definitely exceptional. It may not be the best place but it's a little place ... I like to call home.

I’ve read many of the articles on this site and some were very interesting. Although I’ve been away from Armenia for such a long time, the love and respect I have for it hasn’t decreased but has rather gone much higher. Some of my thoughts on what’s going on right now and what I believe in are as follows.

I believe and I’m not afraid to say KNOW that the Genocide took place. People can call it karma, call it massacre, call it whatever, but the fact is, it happened. Right now, what we live by is the past. I don’t believe in living by the past NOR the future. Rather, I believe in living in the preset although at times, we all like to dream or must go back to the past which makes us human and gives us priorities or sets some for us. They say, “Forgive and Forget”. I say, “Forgive but never Forget”. The Genocide or incidents like that weren’t and will never be just some memories that some don’t like to remember or talk about. It’s neither just “something” that happened. It’s because of those Armenians and yes, even many Turks, that not I but WE are alive today and forgetting what they did is like letting dust pile on the mirror that we look in, not being able to then see who we are. Not only Turks but Americans, Russians, and people from lots of other countries. When we forget what happened, we are that much closer to making the same mistakes made back then, again. For that reason, we must look at ourselves in our mirrors and forgive, never forgetting those that gave us the opportunity to do so. Our past is our present but not the future. We can change that but shouldn’t at the expense of losing our identities.

The Armenians that died in the Genocide will only die when we forget about them and blindly forgive. True forgiveness is forgiving with understanding. It’s easy forgetting what happened and accepting blind apologies but its hard forgiving with understanding and realization of what happened. When there isn’t wine on the table, you can’t say you don’t drink because there isn’t any wine to drink whatsoever. In the same way, if you don’t face the past, looking straight and upright into the mirror, you won’t be able to forgive or understand what happened or who you really are. The identity that no amount of makeup, clothes, or passport’s can diminish. Facing it is no easy business but fear is not an option because fear of the past and present generates fear in the future. Once a person puts himself in the shoes of the person that has lost the person he/she has loved, only then will he/she have the right to forgive or not to forgive or in many (maybe all) cases, even talk about it. The rest is just everyday words that we have the ability to use. All of us, including our countries, have good and bad sides we hold on to but all problems must be faced at one point or another. We have all made mistakes as a country, family, and as individuals but the only solution to facing those problems is accepting what happened. We won’t be on this earth forever. We must go someday, one day, maybe today, but we will never stay. What will stay is what we do. The difference we make which isn’t as hard as it seems. A real mistake is making the SAME mistake again, having not learned a lesson from it. Our grandfathers, good or bad, all made their mistakes hoping and trying, in their own ways, good or bad, to create a better future.

What we have now is what we’re standing on and in the end it’s us that make the decisions and choices. We won’t be able to stand in front of God and say my government told me not to do something or this person told me not to OR even worse, some people changed my mind. We are, even as we speak, designing our future. Let’s make it a bright one and not respect each other as a WHOLE or something, that will never happen, but with distinction and RESPECT towards differences and those very same distinctions. Many people don’t understand why Armenians or people that have gone through a lot, fight after all this time. We fight because the truth and future I just described is powerful. We fight because those are the things really worth fighting for with every breath and all we’ve got. That battle will never end.

Hope all of you are still awake, haha. All the same, I’m proud to be an Armenian and I wish you all the best, looking forward to talking to all of you soon. Thanks for listening and not giving up.

Welcome!

[Edoman]

Quote "...We must go someday, one day, maybe today, but we will never stay. What will stay is what we do. The difference we make which isn’t as hard as it seems. A real mistake is making the SAME mistake again, having not learned a lesson from it. Our grandfathers, good or bad, all made their mistakes hoping and trying, in their own ways, good or bad, to create a better future..."



Are you sure you are 18? don't give up school kid, you could be our next leader.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Wow man

Barev Joghovurd Jan. I hope you all are doing great when you read this.

It's my first time on an Armenian forum which I've been reading for more then an hour yesterday. I thought I might join. Well, let me introduce myself.

My name is Sarkis and I was born on the 21st of September, 1990. I have a younger sister and brother, me being the oldest in the family and of course my mom and dad. Since then, I've moved a lot around the world, more then eight years in India, five years in the US, and other countries at different periods throughout the years. My family has been the traveling type for a long time which has been quite the experience, allowing me to bond with many different types of people with different religions, cultures, and manners, understanding the world and how it works pretty fast. Some trips were because we got exceptional chances to go on them and the others were business based you can say. In these eighteen years, I've come to Armenia only a few times, maybe 3-4 years altogether with intervals. Now I'm back and I've already been here with my family for 2 years. We’ve settled down and I can truthfully say that it feels refreshing. I know Armenian since my mom taught it in America to me, my brother, and my sister, sometimes forcefully, which I’m thankful for. It's difficult learning a language you don't use at the immediate time. I'm studying here now and I've finished school elsewhere. Naturally, my English is better then my Armenian although I can speak without any problems in expressing myself. I'm a computer designer, having been on computers since I could crawl and that's my career. I'm also a musician, love music which is an undividable part of me, basketball, history, writing, acting, and a few other things that define who I am in many ways. Anyways, all these years, I've been to countless places but Armenia is a place that is definitely exceptional. It may not be the best place but it's a little place ... I like to call home.

I’ve read many of the articles on this site and some were very interesting. Although I’ve been away from Armenia for such a long time, the love and respect I have for it hasn’t decreased but has rather gone much higher. Some of my thoughts on what’s going on right now and what I believe in are as follows.

I believe and I’m not afraid to say KNOW that the Genocide took place. People can call it karma, call it massacre, call it whatever, but the fact is, it happened. Right now, what we live by is the past. I don’t believe in living by the past NOR the future. Rather, I believe in living in the preset although at times, we all like to dream or must go back to the past which makes us human and gives us priorities or sets some for us. They say, “Forgive and Forget”. I say, “Forgive but never Forget”. The Genocide or incidents like that weren’t and will never be just some memories that some don’t like to remember or talk about. It’s neither just “something” that happened. It’s because of those Armenians and yes, even many Turks, that not I but WE are alive today and forgetting what they did is like letting dust pile on the mirror that we look in, not being able to then see who we are. Not only Turks but Americans, Russians, and people from lots of other countries. When we forget what happened, we are that much closer to making the same mistakes made back then, again. For that reason, we must look at ourselves in our mirrors and forgive, never forgetting those that gave us the opportunity to do so. Our past is our present but not the future. We can change that but shouldn’t at the expense of losing our identities.

The Armenians that died in the Genocide will only die when we forget about them and blindly forgive. True forgiveness is forgiving with understanding. It’s easy forgetting what happened and accepting blind apologies but its hard forgiving with understanding and realization of what happened. When there isn’t wine on the table, you can’t say you don’t drink because there isn’t any wine to drink whatsoever. In the same way, if you don’t face the past, looking straight and upright into the mirror, you won’t be able to forgive or understand what happened or who you really are. The identity that no amount of makeup, clothes, or passport’s can diminish. Facing it is no easy business but fear is not an option because fear of the past and present generates fear in the future. Once a person puts himself in the shoes of the person that has lost the person he/she has loved, only then will he/she have the right to forgive or not to forgive or in many (maybe all) cases, even talk about it. The rest is just everyday words that we have the ability to use. All of us, including our countries, have good and bad sides we hold on to but all problems must be faced at one point or another. We have all made mistakes as a country, family, and as individuals but the only solution to facing those problems is accepting what happened. We won’t be on this earth forever. We must go someday, one day, maybe today, but we will never stay. What will stay is what we do. The difference we make which isn’t as hard as it seems. A real mistake is making the SAME mistake again, having not learned a lesson from it. Our grandfathers, good or bad, all made their mistakes hoping and trying, in their own ways, good or bad, to create a better future.

What we have now is what we’re standing on and in the end it’s us that make the decisions and choices. We won’t be able to stand in front of God and say my government told me not to do something or this person told me not to OR even worse, some people changed my mind. We are, even as we speak, designing our future. Let’s make it a bright one and not respect each other as a WHOLE or something, that will never happen, but with distinction and RESPECT towards differences and those very same distinctions. Many people don’t understand why Armenians or people that have gone through a lot, fight after all this time. We fight because the truth and future I just described is powerful. We fight because those are the things really worth fighting for with every breath and all we’ve got. That battle will never end.

Hope all of you are still awake, haha. All the same, I’m proud to be an Armenian and I wish you all the best, looking forward to talking to all of you soon. Thanks for listening and not giving up.

A+ on that, that was beautiful, welcome.
I agree with Edoman, are you sure you are 18, you should run for president.
It was an amazing opening post man.

[Sako]

Great hearing from you all. Thanks for the comments and yeah, I'm 18, haha. If I wasn't, I mightv'e been born on some other day which would be a great loss to me. September 21st, Independance Day, my country celebrates my birthday each year and I'm proud that I was born on the very first in 1990. Now there's something to cherish. Something I remember in the Armenian College in India was that everyone used to get a cake on their birthday but since mine was a holiday, that spelt no school and no cake, unless I went manually to pick it up. That still makes me laugh till now.

People have always said I'm more mature then my age but I'd don't like to dwell in that thought. Just try my best. I'm more of the serious, funny, romantic, go all the way without catching my breath type of guy so most of my friends have either been older then me or younger. I don't mean I don't have any friends my age. I do but I find that the things I like to talk about or the way I understand this world isn't always the way they look at it. Also, I'm the person that would take a bullet for a friend, since I could walk and moving around the world, I soon realized that if you give your heart out to everyone, you'll become colder rather then the other way around. That's easy to understand but really controlling yourself isn't easy when you have such a nature. Not that it's bad. It's just that everyone will not appreciate you and your actions. If a person gives his/her heart equally to everyone then the real friends won’t be special. Aside from that, many people I’ve met have the attitude that everyone is their friend. Well, those kinds of people are definitely not my friends and not only because Socrates wrote the saying, lol.

Anyways, I guess after all that I’ve been through I’ve really realized that I know nothing at all. This world has got more twists and turns then a large bowl of spaghetti. Just gotta keep trying. Cheers, haha.

[Hovik]

Barev enker jan.
Welcome to the forum.

In your opinion, is it fair to expect the victim to forgive when the perpetrator hasn't admitted guilt, let alone apologised for their crimes?

Should the victims of the Irish potato famine have forgiven the Brits in 1845? or anytime (for that matter) prior to the first apology of the British gov't some 150 years later?

Are you implying that Armenians should forgive Turks even as what some call a "continued Genocide" is taking place inside Turkey against Armenians as we speak, and they refuse to admit or apologize for the Ottoman crimes and their complicity?

Just curious what you think...

P.S. Armenian officials would never let someone with brains lead them...

[Sako]

Good Question

Barev Hovik Jan.

You're question is an interesting one. Here's what I think.

First of all, there are different levels of crime. I don't know much about the potato famine but I'm sure it's not equally brutal as the events that took place in 1915 and neither is it more forgivable then the Genocide. Secondly, if the Turks even killed 1000 Armenian's, would that change much or in fact, ANYTHING? They killed their own citizens and not by simply putting a bullet in their head or throwing them in jail. They raped and murdered them and if we start writing about all the things that happened in the Genocide, we might have to write more then a thousand books. Thirdly, would 1000 deaths make you feel more forgiving? Let us not forget how those deaths occurred or WHY? If it had a point or a very good reason, I might actually try really hard to find an excuse to forgive the Turks (although it would still be very difficult) that killed.... I'm sorry, murdered and slaughtered. Those are the right words to describe what happened.

Owing to my dull knowledge, perhaps, on the events of 1845 or the potato famine, I don't think the Brits constantly argued that NOTHING happened, destroying all the documents and/or evidence pertaining to the potato famine. My point is that we should be able to first analyze any two events properly before throwing equal light on both of them. In boxing, you don't have two opponents with completely different weights getting in the same ring.

In your opinion, is it fair to expect the victim to forgive when the perpetrator hasn't admitted guilt, let alone apologized for their crimes?

Let us analyze this for a second, Hovik Jan. The Brits. First, let's not think that the Irish didn't feel any anger when remembering the potato famine or the people that carried them out. But neither should we think that they didn't want to forgive. If they did forgive, out of their own will, of course, then the Brits must of given them a chance to forgive or at the worst, solely a reason to forgive. An example, yeah? If Turkey was offering us something very important of great value such as land, money, trade, etc. then if we forgave them, that would be mainly if not only because of those reasons and the world would forget what happened in 1915. The British are a very sly nation (I'm looking at you East India Company). They ruined India and did some good as well. There is a good and bad side to everything. They waited for so long to apologize so that people would forget what happened, unknowingly or knowingly. That's what I understand. Turkey is taking a similar route. They think the sands of time will have a place on our past. They don't know us too well. I don't think that thousands of Irish were just zombies, not remembering the past and just forgiving. That's why I said, one must forgive only after fully understanding WHAT and WHO he/she is forgiving after looking him/herself in the mirror. Do you know, there are so many people out there that just say the Genocide or "something like that" happened? They say, "Yo, times have changed, we gotta move on bro". They don't appreciate the gravity of the situation. They don't imagine what happened. They just think we like to make something big out of something "reasonably" small. Once a person puts himself into a victim's shoes, he/she can ONLY then, yes, I said ONLY THEN, forgive or choose not to. The rest are blind talks and people like that have no right and SHOULD (not CAN!) NEVER talk about the events of 1915 or any other calamities they don't understand much about. They all look at it as a political shamble. The Genocide had nothing to do with politics. It was a massacre. Politics played a small role. That's why it's called Genocide. It was hate, the same hate that continues to this day even though many people (not all) don't like to admit it. I ask anyone thinking about ANY Genocide to put themselves in the shoes of children being killed without mercy and in hellish ways, of mothers crying over the bodies of their children, of children crying over the bodies of their stiff parents, people holding the heads of their loved ones, etc. Once they do or once something like what I described happens, God forbid, only then will they understand what really happened or how we feel.

Going back to your original question. Should we forgive? I don't think anyone should go against their heart but neither should they misjudge any event or calamity. Menk petka irrin anunov dimenk or we must call an object/event by its name. The events of 1915 had more then one name. It had maybe hundreds and thousands. Let us put that to a side for a second though. There are different ways to apologize and I say this from my own experience. 1, you apologize, 2, you don't say anything and just begin being nice to the person your supposed to apologize to, 3, you do both, in time, and 4, you don't say anything until you realize there is no other way or you are forced to. Turkey doesn't really fall under any of these categories. Turkey doesn't show that it feels remorse, it continues to hide in a corner, demolishing our past through our documents, artifacts, etc. without realizing that WE are our past, not all those documents alone. They have shown repentance but in small doses. They may destroy everything but not who we are and what makes us who we are. If you did something bad (they should be happy I'm using that word), you have to at least show that you feel sorry if you're not saying anything. What their doing now is simply throwing more petrol onto the flames and we all know what happens in the end.

So my answer is, no. They don't have the right to tell us or even ask us to do something or anything really. Their in dept of US not the other way around. They know that and they don't want to become a laughing stock so they laugh at us, trying to shun away from the facts without understanding that the one who laughs first, laughs last. The ones that do at least because I don't say this to all Turkish citizens. There are thousands of great Turkish people that deserve respect but get bombarded even by their own government. I respect these people and I plead to all Armenian's to never even consider comparing these people to the Turks that caused the Genocide. Thousands of Armenian's are alive today because of those Turks and I honor those people. They are great people, not Turks. I say Turks because many people, including almost all Armenian's, look at that word as evil. All Turks aren't evil, accept it. Believe it or not, they are a big reason why a war isn't raging.

Hovik Jan, I hope you're still with me on this. A person must be a like a bee, like my father likes to say all the time. I owe very much to him. Like a bee who goes everywhere and collects only the nectar. We must always be able to distinguish the good from the bad because even in the dirtiest places, there is good. Our world lives on that balance.

Are you implying that Armenians should forgive Turks even as what some call a "continued Genocide" is taking place inside Turkey against Armenians as we speak, and they refuse to admit or apologize for the Ottoman crimes and their complicity?

Hovik Jan, I imply that we should forgive those people who deserve it. WE, not I or you alone, should NEVER look at the Turks as a whole or even the Armenian's as a whole. We have our own kinks in our chain, and definitely more then one, all countries do. Only a fool says that he/she hasn't made a mistake, as a person, country, or entity. There was this one person; this is a true story, in America, working with my dad. He wrote on a beautiful piece of wood, "I have never made a mistake in my life. Once I thought I had, but I was wrong". He placed this on the wall as if it was an elegant sculpture. I think we should all strive to never become like this. I've read about countless people who said we should never marry Turks. Personally, I also think that way, I won't hide it, but I realize that it isn't me talking, it's my ego and the pain in my heart. What if the Genocide never happened, would you think the same way? I'm in no way saying that it's right completely. What I'm saying is that there are people who are truly good and who accept everything that happened. Some acknowledge it much better then many Armenian's do. These people turn out to be great people and I see why Armenian girls marry them. Love is universal. Those that just simply do it for money though are basically allowing the Turks to mock us even more. That is our countries fault, hands down. It's proven. There are people who do it because they just want to, that's always there, as well, but they are a very small minority. To the Turks perhaps reading this with a good motive and understanding, falling into my description of a good person, I ask you to be a little more understanding as to why Armenian's act the way they do at times. It isn't because we hate you, it's because we hate what happened and those people that caused it and what is still going on. When we take up banners, we don't wave it at you and those who do then need to apologize. We have to differentiate, no matter what. You are the ones that keep us from hating completely, you are almost holding the balance and I thank you all for the support and everything you have done, yes, as an Armenian and as a person who has gone through a lot of hating.

Hovik Jan, sorry for making this long. In the end, I think there is and we must take into account the time, place, and circumstance. We must know when to forgive, and truly forgive, not for others, but for ourselves and from our hearts. We must know when to fight, when to stop, when to continue, etc. Ameninch chapimecha sirun or everything is good in right measure (for those who don’t know Armenian). Overdoing something is never right. Turkey has overdone hiding and trying to claim us wrong and that has led us to bombard them the way we do with words and banners. Everything has a reaction so neither can we blame them for being afraid and trying to destroy all evidence, although it is a one way ticket to hell, and neither can they blame us. How can you try to annihilate an entire culture, even until now? Time will show what will happen but a lie always leads to another lie. Turkey doesn’t know how to stand up or apologize after lying so much. It’s kind of childish actually. I used to be in those kinds of situations as a kid sometimes, I think we all have. Nothing can stay hidden forever though and they just don’t want to accept it or can, to some extent. They went too deep into the rabbit hole, going back the way they came and apologizing is the only way out of this problem. There is no highway option.

Anyways, Hovik Jan, this brings me to my last paragraph. I think we all have mistakes and true forgiveness is something earned, not bought. Even if the Irish did forgive the Brits for what they did in exchange for material objects or aid, that forgiveness would have been only a set of words written in history books that most kids get bored of reading at school. Forgiveness, knowledge, love, courage, affection, truth, respect, honor, determination, spirituality, life, and hope are things you can never buy with money. Those are the things that make this world so magical and un-understandable. For the record though, Hovik Jan, I believe that no country, no population, VOCHMI AZG, would have been able to stay alive and start a new life after all that happened from 1915 – 1923, not including all that happened before or after the Genocide. They would have given up. Many countries envy us for who we are and for many realistic reasons. We are everywhere. Do you know that in the Top Ten list of the World’s Greatest Men, TWO are Armenian? All the other eight each belong to one country. We are such a small population but we have proven to the world that quality is more important then quantity. This should not lead us to being puffed up but rather, we should be humble and proud respecting all other countries and people, if they deserve it, of course. Respect is earned. Hovik Jan, we have lost a lot of land, thousands of Armenian’s died, the people we loved died, but the love, courage, and hope that we have and will always have, will never die. We are the people that make Armenia what it is, not the artifacts, not the books, not the documents, or lands. You saw how they were and still are being destroyed till today. That’s why we must stand together because a thin branch or stick can be easily broken but not a huge a tree. I rest my case. I’m proud to be an Armenian and to be able to talk to all of you and I apologize if I said anything wrong.

[Edoman]

Hey you are doing good kid, do not apologize. Stand firm on your beliefs and I am glad to see the younger generation thinking so logically. Be confident but never allow yourself to become xxxxy and arrogant.
However I hope you understand who our real enemies are inside the Turkish society and the power they hold. These Turks are enemies not only to us but also to the Turkish citizens. The good Turks as you say (Not the Turkish definition of a good Turk), I believe are the key. Winning their hearts and minds and exposing their government lies (which they have been brainwashed in generations) without appearance of causing civil disobedience by Armenians is one of the keys to our victory. Turkey can be made to implode from within and us Armenians must play a good game and remember that this government must pay for their crimes, one way or another. The truth will always eventfully prevail but not by sitting idle and accepting your faith. We need to help them (ironically) and to wake them up from this fantasy they live in. It might take decades or longer but it can be done. Research Turkish Fascism, Turkish Skull, Gray Wolves, Ergenekon, and their secret societies if you haven’t already. These are not your typical gang bangers; they are made up of former leaders and generals. Turkey talks about them as criminals but none of the rank and file ever gets held responsible. They use escape goats to show justice for crimes committed. Ottomans are very much alive and well if you ask me. They still want to finish the job if they get the chance, let’s not kid ourselves. Sheers

Hovik. “Armenian officials would never let someone with brains lead them” Too funny Dude. Unfortunately you have a good point.

[Sako]

Thanks for the encouragement Edoman, it means a lot to me.

However I hope you understand who our real enemies are inside the Turkish society and the power they yield. These Turks are enemies not only to us but also to the Turkish citizens. The good Turks as you say (Not the Turkish definition of a good Turk), I believe are the key. Winning their hearts and minds and exposing their government lies (which they have been brainwashed in generations) without appearance of causing civil disobedience by Armenians is one of the keys to our victory.

Exactly what I've been saying but Edoman jan, how can we expect the good people to help us when we bombard them the second they introduce themselves? If you noticed, in my writing, I mentioned Armenia as well, not just Turkey. We've become terrorists in they're eyes which some really have turned out to be. I read on one forum about a Turk who ACCEPTED the Genocide in his post without any evil looks. Some of the Armenians were really starting to grab their weapons off the shelves. We have to change our attitude. Armenians have turned the word TURK into a monster without caring how many good people stand in between the war lines. That's a sacrifice we can't live with. Imagine if we were in that condition.

Turkey can be made to implode from within and us Armenians must play a good game and remember that this government must pay for their crimes, one way or another.

True. The sad thing is that many Armenians will still continue to hate them.

The truth will always eventfully prevail but not by sitting idle and accepting your faith. We need to help them (ironically) and to wake them up from this fantasy they live in. It might take decades or longer but it can be done.

True again, nothing is impossible, but our current motto isn't working. We need to use a new strategy starting right from ourselves. Trust me, our attitude will change MUCH. I'm not saying we should stop what we're doing. I'm saying that some that don't understand what's going on simply scream at the top of their lungs. It's become a way of life. Like or not, many have become arrogant, which removes the essence of everything. Just like a few bad Turks throw off the good ones in our eyes, a few Armenians, could throw all of us off in the eyes of the good people, and not only Turks, around the world. Some are annoyed even.

Research Turkish Fascism, Turkish Skull, Gray Wolves, Ergenekon, and their secret societies if you haven’t already. These are not your typical gang bangers; they are made up of former leaders and generals. Turkey talks about them as criminals but none of the rank and file ever gets held responsible.

I definitely will, thanks for the info, haven't heard of them.

They use escape goats to show justice for crimes committed. Ottomans are very much alive and well if you ask me. They still want to finish the job if they get the chance, let’s not kid ourselves. Sheers

God forbid, but I don't think they're that stupid. We aren't as helpless as before. More then half the world is on our side and one problem could make countries remember other conflicts they had previously with Turkey.

Hovik. “Armenian officials would never let someone with brains lead them” Too funny Dude. Unfortunately you have a good point.

Who knows ........ Oh what the hell, you're right