.:The Road to Unity:.

[Sako]

Im Yekhpayrner yev Kuyrer, most of the time, we talk about politics, many major issues, and much, much more ... but I feel we don't pay enough attention to ourselves. Our primary and most troubling issue is that we are not united. We almost never stand together. That is why our people have suffered for more then 800 years.

I started this thread to help us find ways to support each other and ALWAYS Stand Together physically, mentally, and virtually. Here are just a few I came up with.

I) This may sound like a very small step forward but trust me, it isn't. Let us all use the word "JAN" when talking to each other. I have had the opportunity to live in many, many countries and interact with people from all kinds of different cultures and something I noticed was how close many of them were with each other. Let us show respect to each other in our own language REGARDLESS of our differences. Let us show whoever enters these forums how united we are even though we live in different parts of the world. We all, including me, have gotten angry at times and I don't see anything abnormal in that but let's learn to always use the word jan. It is a beautiful word and many people from other countries wish they could have such a word in their dictionaries. Thankfully, we do, so let's use it as frequently as possible.

2) Me and a big team are working on a major site based on unity itself and it would be great to have all of you with us. It will be something new, refreshing, intellectual, and a big step forward (hopefully, we're working really hard). It's not just another site.

3) Let us never disrespect our country in any way. I have at times said that it's in a difficult state and all but I have never mentally or physically disrespected my beautiful nation. If I have, I deeply apologize. Let's look at the J*ews for a second. Although I'm against a lot that they do, I can't cease to be amazed at how united they are. They never disrespect their country in almost any way (so I've heard from many sources). Let us do the same. Many of you might think or say, "Who's been dissing Armenia?" but trust me, tons of Armenians have and still do today verbally, ESPECIALLY right here in our motherland. If we continue to do this, Armenia will never move on. Words are very powerful. Let us appreciate them.

4) When someone starts something, no matter how big or small, let us show him/her our FULL and undivided support instead of thinking it isn't all that great. For the past four years I think, the Light the Night campaign has been going on, for example. Many didn't appreciate it and didn't light a candle right here in Yerevan and probably not in many other countries as well. I didn't really like that. Most of us don't really do much so when we have even the smallest chance to do so, let’s cherish it. When someone thinks of doing something, let’s not criticize his/her plans. That's the WORST THING we can do. Let us instead do our part. I burned three candles and to tell you the truth, it felt great. No one else in my neighborhood burned even one. That's what saddens me . If we don't take the small steps now, how will we be able to stand together later on and take much bigger steps? Just tell me how?

5) Let us remind all those who don't show support (even for a millisecond) to show support whether they talk virtually or physically with us. When a petition is started, let’s ALL sign our names. When a contest takes place, let us ALL vote. Just look at the Turks. When we start an AG poll, thousands of Turks immediately rush to vote as many times as they can. That’s not right, of course, but my point is, we should be as united as they are. We can learn from everyone, including wolves.

Finally, please contribute some ideas to my list of ideas and let us know what steps you are personally taking today out there in the world. I want all of us to remember that we don't have to be standing right next to each other to show support. We can ALWAYS be together in so many ways.

... All We Need Is Desire ...

[bell-the-cat]

Re: .:The Road to Unity:.

Unity, Armenian-style: shut up, don't think for yourself, you are not important, just do whatever the "high personna" Armenians say (and never blame them when things go wrong - as they always do).

[Anoush]

Re: .:The Road to Unity:.

Saco jan, I gave my support on the other thread to Eddo to draw up that petition not to go ahead with signing the newly drawn resolution that practically gives away our Republic. What they want is to recognize turkey the way it stands today with today's borders and be done with it - to forget about our cause in accepting the Genocide recognition and the reparation of money and our lands. They want us to forget about Sevri Tashnakir or Wilsonian Armenia. As well as to go ahead with OSCE Minsk group and Armenia's troops to pull out of Nakhichevan. They will soon seize Armenian Nakhichevan borders. Again, if and when Serje signs that resolution; he will sell-out Armenia and Nakhichevan.

Here is what I believe: I believe that Dashnaktsoutyoun thinks exactly the way I do and Eddo understands it now as well. I don't trust Serje's government and I trust Dashnagtsoutyoun to govern Armenia. That's what I strongly believe in. This existing government will sell out our Republic and Artsakh if and when Serje decides to sign this resolution/paper for opening the freaking borders.

I believe that we should go ahead with Eddo's petitiion that he will draw soon and sign for it both in Armenia and in the Diaspora, and see to it that Serje does not sign that darn Resolution/paper and does not open the borders.

[Anoush]

Re: .:The Road to Unity:.

After that Saco jan, I will support you and your dreams of making the Armenia's people also the Diasporan Armenians to be more united and loving with each other for a much greater cause; anything and everything for the good of our Republic "Armenia".

I will support your new websites and endeavors!

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: .:The Road to Unity:.

Unity, Armenian-style: shut up, don't think for yourself, you are not important, just do whatever the "high personna" Armenians say (and never blame them when things go wrong - as they always do).

Racist post of the day

[Crimson Glow]

Re: .:The Road to Unity:.

First, this should probably be in the General Armenian Talk forum, as it doesn't strictly pertain to the genocide. Second, while this all sounds good on paper (or on monitor), there are several issues your proposal raises...

I) This may sound like a very small step forward but trust me, it isn't. Let us all use the word "JAN" when talking to each other. I have had the opportunity to live in many, many countries and interact with people from all kinds of different cultures and something I noticed was how close many of them were with each other. Let us show respect to each other in our own language REGARDLESS of our differences.

That would depend entirely on what differences we're referring to. Differences in certain opinions on politics, society, religion, history, etc. is one thing. But differences that hurt, or harm the Hye azg is a different story. Armenians running around, dressing, acting and talking like they're straight up ghetto black/Hispanic gangstas is definitely not going to warrant use of the world "jan" out of me. Neither are Armenians who have bought into the Western ideals of materialism, and are obsessed with accumulating wealth and possessions, looking down on other Armenians (or anyone, for that matter) who isn't in their status bracket. This type of behavior and lifestyle only serves to set our people BACK, and no amount of "janning" such people is going to provide a sense of unity, as there is very little left that is Armenian about them. I don't care how many times they declare their pride in being Armenian, the truth is they have sold out their heritage for whatever respective odar-promoted lifestyle they've adapted.

3) Let us never disrespect our country in any way. I have at times said that it's in a difficult state and all but I have never mentally or physically disrespected my beautiful nation. If I have, I deeply apologize. Let's look at the J*ews for a second. Although I'm against a lot that they do, I can't cease to be amazed at how united they are. They never disrespect their country in almost any way (so I've heard from many sources). Let us do the same. Many of you might think or say, "Who's been dissing Armenia?" but trust me, tons of Armenians have and still do today verbally, ESPECIALLY right here in our motherland. If we continue to do this, Armenia will never move on. Words are very powerful. Let us appreciate them.

I agree, but let us separate disrespect from constructive criticism. The only way for us to grow as a nation and as a people is to address what is wrong with both, and take those issues head on. Pretending these things don't exist, or discouraging "negative comments" is only going to perpetuate the problem. The problem is not going to go away by ignoring it.

4) When someone starts something, no matter how big or small, let us show him/her our FULL and undivided support instead of thinking it isn't all that great. For the past four years I think, the Light the Night campaign has been going on, for example. Many didn't appreciate it and didn't light a candle right here in Yerevan and probably not in many other countries as well. I didn't really like that. Most of us don't really do much so when we have even the smallest chance to do so, let’s cherish it. When someone thinks of doing something, let’s not criticize his/her plans. That's the WORST THING we can do.

There are a couple problems with this. First, you presume that every Armenian is aware of such ideas. For example, you expressed disappointment that no one else lit a candle in your community. How many people knew that this was going on? How informed where they about when, why, etc? Secondly, to say that EVERY idea should be encouraged, no matter how ridiculous it may be, is...well....ridiculous. It is that kind of blind following that cost us so much in the past. Ideas NEED to be dissected, evaluated, analyzed and critiqued, weeding out the weaker ones in favor of the more sensible ones. We are too few to go along with anything anyone throws out there, wasting valuable time and resources on every campaign that pops up. We need concentrated efforts on GOOD ideas.

5) Let us remind all those who don't show support (even for a millisecond) to show support whether they talk virtually or physically with us. When a petition is started, let’s ALL sign our names. When a contest takes place, let us ALL vote. Just look at the Turks. When we start an AG poll, thousands of Turks immediately rush to vote as many times as they can. That’s not right, of course, but my point is, we should be as united as they are. We can learn from everyone, including wolves.

You're comparing apples to oranges. If every living Armenian signed a petition, or participated in these pointless online votes/surveys that no one other than Armenians and Turks care about, it still wouldn't cause a dent. You're dealing with a worldwide population of 7-8 million Armenians vs. a population of 80 million Turks IN Turkey alone! THAT is why we're loosing the petition and voting, as well as information wars, just as there was nothing we could do to stop the genocide 94 years ago.


All that being said, I'll tell you what I think the bigger issues are for Armenians. First and foremost, the inability to accept self-criticism. Rather than taking into account what people say our faults are, we get angry and defensive, sometimes even violent. As I said earlier, this doesn't solve anything. In fact, it perpetuates the negative stigma and stereotypes. Instead, we should be learning from criticisms, and finding ways to improve ourselves.

Secondly, the biggest reason for our lack of unity is this whole segregation between "types" of Armenians. It seems as though this may have started with Hyestancis, who have an elitist attitude towards Armenians born abroad. In turn, non-Armenian born Armenians show a dislike for 'Stancis. Regardless of how, when and where it started, it has evolved into quite the problem. You can't have unity if you don't care for your own kind based strictly on where they were born, and/or where they live, and or which Armenian dialect they speak. There are not enough of us left on this planet to segregate this way.

Lastly, we are loosing our ways. Armenians today are in an identity crisis. They're not sure if they're Russian, Arab, Italian mobsters, Frenchies, etc. Those of us in the diaspora, who so love to proclaim our undying devotion to our ethnicity, are good at talking the talk, but not so good at walking the walk. How can we be unified if we don't even know who we are?

I have found that most of today's Armenian youth know absolutely nothing about our history, culture, etc. They are much more fond of the lifestyles I mentioned earlier in the "no 'jan' for you!" paragraph. Now granted, a certain amount of assimilation is necessary anywhere you live. Obviously, you have to speak the host country's language, learn the norms, understand what is acceptable social behavior to them, etc. That's fine. But what I'm referring to is the lack of balance between say being an American, and being Armenian. There is no reason you can't be both at the respective right place and time. But all too often, Armenians are foregoing the Armenian part of that scale. Sure, you'll go to a kef party, maybe attend church on Sundays, etc. but it seems like we're just going through the motions just to do it. We're not actually doing these things for the sake of Armenian spirit, or because we truly feel it in our blood that it IS who we are, not some ancillary thing we do just to say, "yeah, yeah. I'm Armenian, see? Now leave me alone". So we first need to learn to segregate the Armenian identity from other host nations we've unfortunately been forced to live in, and then we must learn to retain it out of sheer desire, not just to check off a "to do" list.

Without these things first being straightened out, there will be no Armenian unity.

[hrai]

Re: .:The Road to Unity:.

Secondly, the biggest reason for our lack of unity is this whole segregation between "types" of Armenians. It seems as though this may have started with Hyestancis, who have an elitist attitude towards Armenians born abroad. In turn, non-Armenian born Armenians show a dislike for 'Stancis. Regardless of how, when and where it started, it has evolved into quite the problem. You can't have unity if you don't care for your own kind based strictly on where they were born, and/or where they live, and or which Armenian dialect they speak. There are not enough of us left on this planet to segregate this way.

These attitudes go back at least to 1918. Refugees from Western Armenia found Yerevan strange even alien perhaps,with widespread use of Russian and Russian customs etc. Perhaps similar to New Yorkers going to New Mexico?

[Sako]

Re: .:The Road to Unity:.

Here is what I believe: I believe that Dashnaktsoutyoun thinks exactly the way I do and Eddo understands it now as well. I don't trust Serje's government and I trust Dashnagtsoutyoun to govern Armenia. That's what I strongly believe in. This existing government will sell out our Republic and Artsakh if and when Serje decides to sign this resolution/paper for opening the freaking borders.

Something your forgetting is that Serj IS a Dashnak so why are you constantly asking the Dashnaks to walk into parliament? Their already there, lol. That's why I don't completely trust any party or politician.

I believe that we should go ahead with Eddo's petitiion that he will draw soon and sign for it both in Armenia and in the Diaspora, and see to it that Serje does not sign that darn Resolution/paper and does not open the borders.

I doubt it will do much but I'll show my full support. Any step is a step forward right now. We should try everything.

After that Saco jan, I will support you and your dreams of making the Armenia's people also the Diasporan Armenians to be more united and loving with each other for a much greater cause; anything and everything for the good of our Republic "Armenia".

I don't understand why you can't do it NOW. I didn't ask for much, did I ?

Racist post of the day

... Like I care ...

I will support your new websites and endeavors!

Thank you Anoush jan. Eddo and a few others you know here are the founding fathers of C&A, we've been working on it for a long time, so you'll feel at home ! I am eternally grateful to them and thank God every day for allowing me to meet them. Thanks again guys.

That would depend entirely on what differences we're referring to. Differences in certain opinions on politics, society, religion, history, etc. is one thing. But differences that hurt, or harm the Hye azg is a different story. Armenians running around, dressing, acting and talking like they're straight up ghetto black/Hispanic gangstas is definitely not going to warrant use of the world "jan" out of me. Neither are Armenians who have bought into the Western ideals of materialism, and are obsessed with accumulating wealth and possessions, looking down on other Armenians (or anyone, for that matter) who isn't in their status bracket. This type of behavior and lifestyle only serves to set our people BACK, and no amount of "janning" such people is going to provide a sense of unity, as there is very little left that is Armenian about them. I don't care how many times they declare their pride in being Armenian, the truth is they have sold out their heritage for whatever respective odar-promoted lifestyle they've adapted.

I'm not talking about EXTREME differences. Naturally, you wouldn't be "janning" EVERYONE. I'm talking about "janning" all those that deserve it. In the forums and in our lives, there are so many Armenians we know and forget to say the word "jan". Let's say "jan" to them. Do they also not deserve to be called "jan"?

I agree, but let us separate disrespect from constructive criticism. The only way for us to grow as a nation and as a people is to address what is wrong with both, and take those issues head on. Pretending these things don't exist, or discouraging "negative comments" is only going to perpetuate the problem. The problem is not going to go away by ignoring it.

Yeah, but when you hear your own people in Yerevan saying "Taghem es yerkiru", "Menk yerpek arach chenk guna", "sents kunvatsel kumunank", etc. I don't think you can call that "constructive criticism" Crimson. Most of the time, people like this never even bring forward an argument, they just get on down to dissing our nation whenever they freakin feel like it. Modaya darel anteru. This is wrong. The more they say it all (I mean like every hour of the freakin day), the further way get from moving on. Keep telling someone he/she is an idiot. What do you think will happen? Do you think you'll be able to see any progress? What the xxxx man. I understand what your saying but we should even be careful when criticizing constructively.

There are a couple problems with this. First, you presume that every Armenian is aware of such ideas. For example, you expressed disappointment that no one else lit a candle in your community. How many people knew that this was going on? How informed where they about when, why, etc?

All the TV's, radios, and many individuals! Don't try to prove me wrong, Crimson, I can bring you tons of examples of how our people don't unite or support each other. I've lived here for a long time. This was just 1 of them. Hell, the last 800 years explains my case completely. I don't need to say anything. Most only think about their own skin alone and that's why our country suffers right now. This needs to change FIRST AND FOREMOST.

Secondly, to say that EVERY idea should be encouraged, no matter how ridiculous it may be, is...well....ridiculous. It is that kind of blind following that cost us so much in the past. Ideas NEED to be dissected, evaluated, analyzed and critiqued, weeding out the weaker ones in favor of the more sensible ones. We are too few to go along with anything anyone throws out there, wasting valuable time and resources on every campaign that pops up. We need concentrated efforts on GOOD ideas.

Look, I'm not saying every idea has to be encouraged and that ALL of us have to just go with anything that comes up. Of course, we have to evaluate everything but what I'm saying is that we should show support even if the step being taken isn't a very BIG step being taken forward. If it's a small but proper step, WE SHOULD SHOW SUPPORT. We don't have to personally take the step(s) but our support will help the takers take them more effectively and confidently. There are many that live in different countries and most of us can't help them in any way. Let's simply show them our support. Even if we WANTED TO, we wouldn't be able to do much because they live somewhere else but we can show our support, even if the idea is a little dull. If it is, why not put forward some new ideas that could make it more interesting and effective perhaps? If it isn't harming us then the smallest thing we can do is show support. You have no idea how powerful it is. I've taken many steps today and I owe most of it to the support so many people showed me from different nations, including my own, because it gave me the power and force to move on and take major steps, not just baby steps. All that support helped me bring together people from all over the world. Muslims, Christians, Hindus, so many people are already working with me to create Candles and Ashes. So many people have placed a lot of trust in me. Armenians, Americans, TURKS, etc. JUST SUPPORT did all that, Crimson. Just support and proper behavior from my side. I understand what your saying but it would be correct to say what you said (wasting valuable time and resources on every campaign that pops up) if all the Armenians around the world really were using up a lot of their time to help our nation. In that case, we would have to be considering all the different proposals more seriously but right now, the reality is that most Armenians don't do a THING, not-a-ziltch, so when I ask them to show some support, verbally or virtually (at least), I don't think I'm asking for too much. Your going too deep into what I'm saying. Look at it from a different angle. When I first started CA, it was good but not great. Now, we're this close to making the best Armenian site out there. Durahamar asumem, yerpek mi teragunahatir. Yete ches sirum, portsir enents anel vor aveli lav lini vor sires. Yete eli ches sirum, lav hadjoghutsyan khosk asa yev antsi arach bayts mi teragnahatir. Shat hayer vochinch chen anum yev yerp meku inchvor mi plan e uzum irakanatsnel, asumen ankap, apush plana kam el vochinchi chi statsvi ira mot nakhandzits. Es inch dzeva? There are a few small and big projects going on out there in the world, not hundreds, and our support can help them move on and/or improve. That's all I'm asking for.

We need concentrated efforts on GOOD ideas.

How many GOOD ideas exist out there, Crimson? And even if there were MANY GREAT ideas, that doesn't mean we should ignore the small efforts or ideas. Remember, everything starts out small. I'm talking about ideas that make some sense. I'm not saying let's support completely rediculous ideas. Of course that's rediculous.

You're comparing apples to oranges. If every living Armenian signed a petition, or participated in these pointless online votes/surveys that no one other than Armenians and Turks care about, it still wouldn't cause a dent. You're dealing with a worldwide population of 7-8 million Armenians vs. a population of 80 million Turks IN Turkey alone! THAT is why we're loosing the petition and voting, as well as information wars, just as there was nothing we could do to stop the genocide 94 years ago.

I see what your saying. But I wasn't talking about AG polls alone.....

All that being said, I'll tell you what I think the bigger issues are for Armenians. First and foremost, the inability to accept self-criticism. Rather than taking into account what people say our faults are, we get angry and defensive, sometimes even violent. As I said earlier, this doesn't solve anything. In fact, it perpetuates the negative stigma and stereotypes. Instead, we should be learning from criticisms, and finding ways to improve ourselves.

Secondly, the biggest reason for our lack of unity is this whole segregation between "types" of Armenians. It seems as though this may have started with Hyestancis, who have an elitist attitude towards Armenians born abroad. In turn, non-Armenian born Armenians show a dislike for 'Stancis. Regardless of how, when and where it started, it has evolved into quite the problem. You can't have unity if you don't care for your own kind based strictly on where they were born, and/or where they live, and or which Armenian dialect they speak. There are not enough of us left on this planet to segregate this way.

Lastly, we are loosing our ways. Armenians today are in an identity crisis. They're not sure if they're Russian, Arab, Italian mobsters, Frenchies, etc. Those of us in the diaspora, who so love to proclaim our undying devotion to our ethnicity, are good at talking the talk, but not so good at walking the walk. How can we be unified if we don't even know who we are?

I have found that most of today's Armenian youth know absolutely nothing about our history, culture, etc. They are much more fond of the lifestyles I mentioned earlier in the "no 'jan' for you!" paragraph. Now granted, a certain amount of assimilation is necessary anywhere you live. Obviously, you have to speak the host country's language, learn the norms, understand what is acceptable social behavior to them, etc. That's fine. But what I'm referring to is the lack of balance between say being an American, and being Armenian. There is no reason you can't be both at the respective right place and time. But all too often, Armenians are foregoing the Armenian part of that scale. Sure, you'll go to a kef party, maybe attend church on Sundays, etc. but it seems like we're just going through the motions just to do it. We're not actually doing these things for the sake of Armenian spirit, or because we truly feel it in our blood that it IS who we are, not some ancillary thing we do just to say, "yeah, yeah. I'm Armenian, see? Now leave me alone". So we first need to learn to segregate the Armenian identity from other host nations we've unfortunately been forced to live in, and then we must learn to retain it out of sheer desire, not just to check off a "to do" list.

Without these things first being straightened out, there will be no Armenian unity.

Good points. I agree with them all. Their all good additions to my list. Is there some way we can incorporate all this into a site? I've come up with many interesting ideas but we always need more. You live out there in the Diaspora as I have for a long time and I understand your current condition and way of thinking very well. Don't feel foreign here, yekhpayr. The problem with your post is that your presenting the problem, without any solutions. HOW will we bring all these Armenians together? What can we do to help? Can we help AT ALL? Saying something's wrong is easy. Let's find solutions.

And guys, please don't talk about politics in my thread. It isn't meant for that. (I don't mean to offend anyone)

[Sako]

Re: .:The Road to Unity:.

These attitudes go back at least to 1918. Refugees from Western Armenia found Yerevan strange even alien perhaps,with widespread use of Russian and Russian customs etc. Perhaps similar to New Yorkers going to New Mexico?

I agree. Perhaps there is something we can do about it. I have a few interesting ideas. I'd love to hear your own ideas if you have any.

[Icy]

Re: .:The Road to Unity:.

Thank you for posting this Saco, maybe every single Armenian
needs to read this to refresh their minds. By the way if you
ever need help with the site you're building let me know, I know
a lot about HTML coding, php, and java.