A shift in priorities?

[Che_Ka]

Again - I agree. Those lands of historic Western Armenia are where I feel the most connection to. That is where my forefathers came from. But those are long gone now. I never felt any affinity to Armenia before visiting it. If anything, Syria was more 'home' to me than Armenia was. Most of my family is there.

But when I went to Armenia, everything changed. A lot of it has to do with the language. Sure, I speak a different dialect, but many of the people have roots from those same historic Western Armenian lands, too. I couldn't grasp it - these people were speaking Armenian in evert aspect and every facet of their lives. This was my home, I felt. I'm not sure you can speak Armenian (I know a few 3rd/4th gen Armenian-Americans, and none of them can), so I don't know if going to Armenia would have this same effect for you.

But I completely agree about the assimilation issue. Unless we live completely isolated like the Amish, there's no other end to the phenomenon that is the Diaspora.

[Hayq]

Armenia? You are talking about making Armenia better by just bashing on Turkey with this bill? IT is no USE!

Idiots, think about it, nothing is going to be gained. If a simple destruction of our people is what is keeping us together then that we should fall apart. Armenians need to come together to better their community, not for osme bill. You want to unite Armenians? Go build an Armenian center somewhere and help all your Armenian pals come close and be friends and respect one another. Not by fueling Hate.

You notice how your arguement does not even fight to make Armenia better, it fights to keep Turkey out of the EU which is not our business! Worry about the issues that plague Armenia today, not what HAD plagued it in the past. Your stupid backwards attitudes about justice will forever erase Armenia, because you are Armenians.

This is the reason why Armenians never move ahead nad will never have a country to call their own. You do not even want a country! You want to settle old scores like hot blooded sicilians! Phuck anyone who thinks the Genocide being resolved will get anything done. Praise anyone who believes Armenia needs to focus on rebuilding its communities.

If you have not noticed, Armenians are turning into Ghettoized xxxxxs and thugs in LA, scarring us. So if the Genocide is noticed and printed in all the text books Armenians will turn into some kind of perfect people?

Phuck no, NEver. Focus should be to build the Armenian community and live in prosperity and build a solid foundations for the future. NOT to settle OLD scores of grandparents who have died.

If you seriously don't agree with me, you yourself are a part of the Armenian Problem.

[Hayq]

Also what the HELL are you talking about here? You say something about Armenians are stupid because all they rely on is no justice but blackmail after blackmail, and yet look what you said right before it!
You want Armenia to blackmail the French, British, Jews, and Americans by BLACKMAILING THEM with us blowing up the pipeline (which is not on our land anyway so it'd be hard to do) if they don't do what we want. Yeah that's going to get us a lot of sympathy from those that control the world. If we do not play nice with the Americans, British, etc., we will never get what we want done! It appears it is you who understands nothing about world affairs... imagine our government of Armenia officially advocating the illegal destruction of an international oil pipeline, way to give the Turks and Azeris actual basis for calling us the evil people that they do!

So what? Do you think we will not have support from Russia? Iran? China? We can use our political area as an advantage for the other Anti-USA axis such as China and gian money for weapons and technology to better ourselves and attack the Azeris gaining control of the world

You want to make Armenians xxxxxs of the west? Obviously. You do not play nice with the West, dumbsh*t! Since when has been playing fair with UK and France possible? NEVER. The West fears rebellion, it loves xxxxxs like you

And for Catwoman, no, I do not care about the 1.5mln Armenians who died during the Armenian Genocide. I see it as a lesson idiot Armenians do not learn, we need to be united and self reliant. So many great Armenians died fighting while the filth ran off! (phuck the dashnaks as well)

So what? genocide?

[IAmMadAtAC]

Hayq, I was going to write a long thing to you about the many ways you were wrong, such as suggesting things like teaming up with fellow "Axis of Evil" nations and making Armenia some sort of bastion of anti-Westerness. But after this quote:

And for Catwoman, no, I do not care about the 1.5mln Armenians who died during the Armenian Genocide. I see it as a lesson idiot Armenians do not learn,

I have come to be assured of your absolute idiocy. There is clearly no talking or convincing someone of such stupidity and I'm not wasting my time. I do ask one thing though:

Armenians need to come together to better their community, not for some bill. You want to unite Armenians? Go build an Armenian center somewhere and help all your Armenian pals come close and be friends and respect one another. Not by fueling Hate.

If you have not noticed, Armenians are turning into Ghettoized xxxxxs and thugs in LA, scarring us. So if the Genocide is noticed and printed in all the text books Armenians will turn into some kind of perfect people? Phuck no, NEver. Focus should be to build the Armenian community and live in prosperity and build a solid foundations for the future. NOT to settle OLD scores of grandparents who have died.

How are genocide bills, only two of which have even arisen in Congress since 2000, keeping us from "building an Armenian center"?! Sure the genocide is quite a preoccupation, but it is not stopping ANYONE from creating an Armenian center if they so choose. Dropping the genocide issue all together will not spur more people on to create these Armenian centers to revitalize their communities. Can you tell me how genocide recognition corralates in any way to ghetto Armenianess?! You said how notice Armenians are turning ghettoized, and said that we think genocide recognition will make us a perfect people. Of course not, everyone knows it won't fix problems in some of our societies (read: Glendale). BUT, conversely, I want to know how dropping the genocide resolution will help us fix this ghettoization in any way?! How?! It won't!!!

Also,

we need to be united and self reliant. So many great Armenians died fighting while the filth ran off! (phuck the dashnaks as well)

I'll have you know my dashnak ancestors were the ones who went back and fought, yes left their lives in America to go back and fight against those that were genociding us. That certainly isn't running off like filth.

[xBaron Dants]

Hayq, it is somewhat ironic that for someone who says that we shouldn't be fueling hate, you have serious violent reactions when people disagree with you. Try to tone that down a bit. Makes you sound like an angry pre-teen more than anything else.

One thing on which I completely agree with you is that it is not healthy to use a tragic event such as a genocide as the main element that brings us together.

I will also agree that the genocide and our general miserable state under the ottoman empire was brought on mostly by our own political incompetence, which is why I will never glorify any of the first political parties.

Other than that, why we cannot focus on getting recognition AND improving Armenia is still beyond my understanding.

You're talking about how strong Armenia must be, and how She shouldn't be anybody's b!tch and whatnot, but what kind of image do you think you're sending when you just drop the genocide issue? Instead of being France's or Britain's b!tch, you become Turkey's b!tch.

[Hayq]

no, you do not become Turkey's anything. YOu become a real man who walks away and makes something of himself while the Turk still lives in poverty.

This genocide gets too much attention, if this is the only thing that is tieing Armenians together, then Armenians should disintegrate now.

I am not violent, and I really am open to views. BUT I snap sometimes when people always talk about these things and live in America. They dont know how Armenia is, they dont know how it is like to live there (not a tourist!). It is not right to put the Armenians in Armenia in such a bad position by irritating a militarily strong Turkey and Oil Controling Azerbaijan. These people who always talk about the genocide have lost contact with Armenia. Many of these people who want those lands from Turkey are much more foolish because they dont want to live with Armenian sin Armenia, but create their own Arrmenia. See, we can not get along. What I want is for Armenians to understand eachother and get along.

You can not prove that getting the Genocide recognized is going to do anything good for Armenians. There is nothing it is going to do! So WHY BOTHER? Stop whining like Jews and build a country. You have to be friends with the Turks and Azeris, because we have no other choice. It is easy for those Armenians in America and Europe to gloat and make pompous claims that we dont need anyone, but they do not know the situation of Armenia. You need to play using all the dirty tricks to get somewhere, Turks have done it and now they have something. Azeris do it and now they have their pipeline.

Armenians, for being ignorant, will always get massacared, because the lessons of the Genocide have not been learned. They teach how EVIL the Turks were. The turks are not evil, ARmenians are just idiots because we could have ver y well defated the Turks after Sardarapat...but what did the Dashnaks do? They surrendered and ran, leaving all the Armenian patriots to fight. Armenians kill their own leaders, how could we expect to get anywhere?

It is time that you really ignore what everyone else thinks, and fight for what is good for us. And the Genocide bill is not worth fighting for, a victory would mean nothing.

TELL ME WHAT will we gain if they admit it? Just give me a short lsit of 2 or 3 things.

[Che_Ka]

I don't mean to get involved in this, but...

Turkish recognition of the Genocide will be a big step toward normalization of relations between Armenia and Turkey, and opening the border ($$$).

Of course there is always the Karabagh issue...

[xBaron Dants]

I have always said and will always say that our own political inability and incompetence is what got us to where we are now. No use debating that.

It's not a US bill we're fighting for. It's recognition by Turkey.

We must be friends with Turkey and Azerbaidjan you say. I agree we need better relations. Does that mean we give up Artsakh? Those are the preconditions for better relations with both of them. So for once where we actually unite and succeed, we have to give it up because we want to be Azerbaidjan's friend?

And of course, we have to drop all genocide "allegations". Do you realize how much credibility we lose, and how much of a weak nation we become if even WE have to deny what happened? I don't see that as a sign of us becoming a REAL anything, except a REAL p*ssy...

Yes, we need to develop Armenia. No use debating that. In fact, I'll be devoting my entire life and career to that, and not to genocide recognition. This does not mean that I do not want recognition, and this does not mean that we do not need recognition.

How good a friendship do you think you can possibly build with a country who knows that it has gotten away with murder, and can do so again?

[Thai-Samurai]

Well first of all reality will be brought to an honest light. Turkey is denying it ever happened, but it did, So an official recognition is owed to reality itself. And second of all, you are right about trying to get Armenia to rebuild. That has always been my point, we do Not need Europe's sympathy to begin repairing the emotional and economic damages of Genocide.

And lastly, the reason why such arguments go on and on, is because no one really knows the best way to live their lives. People in America are blinded be "economic prosperity" , "freedom," and "democracy." I beleive it is just as foolish to think that subscribing to capitalism, and trying to make a profit like every other country is, is gonna get Armenia anywhere either.

Hitler called it a new "weltanschauung" or "new world view", unfortunately he never did much about it except for declare war on every other nationality I still think he was onto something. Capitalism, profit, consumerism, cars and standards of living have all brainwashed people. Remember the glorious days of history, when the Spartans claimed the borders of their country were at the tips of their spears.

Armenia being finally an independent country after 100's of years of foreign rule, lead me to beleive that we may have a psychological advantage over other people in bringing about this total change in mankinds living. I don't know how it will be, I can't call it socialism, communism, capatalism, democracy, none of these names apply. The closest I can get to it, is it say An economy based on education, and well being, not one based on production and profit.

Here's a little quote i thought of on my own to help describe how this may work: "The most productive economy, is one that works for it's own end."

[CatWoman]

Here's a little quote i thought of on my own to help describe how this may work: "The most productive economy, is one that works for it's own end."

Beautiful quote

I just realized we all want the same thing here, some of us want the recognition as well as a strong country, others think the recognition isn't really a factor. Either way, we all agree that rebuilding our economy is important. So maybe instead of arguing back and forth about the importance of the genocide recognition (aparently each side has a point) we should start a thread, discussing our ideas on how we can make a difference? What Armenia needs, and what needs to be changed and what exactly can young people like us do, now or in the future. You never know, we might get ideas and do something with it in the future!