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Issue of what constitutes genocide

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  • Issue of what constitutes genocide

    I saw this op-ed piece today concerning the genocide being attempted in Sudan. It references the Armenian Genocide in a sidebar (that I included at the end). I find the subject both most sad and interesting from a variety of perspectives - one - there are still those (primarily Turkish of course) that deny the Armenian Genocide - and some who deny that it was a genocide (legal definition - premeditation etc) - I think it certainly meets the classic definition (and intended definition IMO)...then there is the issue of what is occuring in Sudan itself - how sad for those people - and how willing people/the world seems to be to ignore their suffering and make excuses to not act and let these criminals get away with their barbarity...

    Crime of Crimes
    Does It Have to Be Genocide for the World to Act?
    By David Bosco

    Sunday, March 6, 2005;


    On Feb. 1, the United Nations issued a finding that sounded like hopeful news about one of Africa's worst conflicts.

    "UN report clears Sudan government of genocide in Darfur," reported Agence France-Presse.

    "UN Panel Sees No Genocide in Darfur," a St. Petersburg Times headline on a Reuters wire story said the next day.

    "Report on Darfur Says Genocide Did Not Occur," read another in the New York Sun.

    The headlines said more about the mindset of the people reading the report than they did about the long-awaited investigation by the U.N. commission of inquiry on the conflict in western Sudan. The 176-page document provided a litany of misery and blamed the government in Khartoum. But to many readers, it appeared to have let Sudan's leaders off the hook by not branding their actions as genocide, as the Bush administration and U.S. Congress had already done.

    It's not as though the report gave Sudan a seal of approval. It detailed extensive atrocities authorized by the Sudanese government and carried out by Janjaweed militias. Its authors concluded that the government and militias conducted "indiscriminate attacks, including killing of civilians, torture, enforced disappearances, destruction of villages, rape and other forms of sexual violence, pillaging and forced displacement throughout Darfur." They added that the government's brutal campaign had displaced more than 1.5 million people. But for many news editors and readers, one conclusion overshadowed all the rest: There was no genocide in Darfur, after all.

    In considering whether and where to intervene, one question has assumed talismanic significance: Is it genocide? In the words of judges on the international tribunal for Rwanda, genocide is the "crime of crimes." Such a finding has become a signal for the world to act.

    But as the Darfur report shows, genocide is an unreliable trigger. For all its moral power, genocide is both hard to document and linked to questions of race, ethnicity and religion in a way that excludes other -- similarly heinous -- crimes. Intended as a clarion call, the term itself has become too much of a focal point, muddling the necessity for action almost as often as clarifying it.

    Few issues have been more important in the last decade than reacting to the bloody civil conflicts that still haunt many parts of the globe. The current film "Hotel Rwanda" hammers audiences with the tale of the world's shameful failure to stop the 1994 Rwandan massacres. Looking to the genocide label to motivate international intervention in places like Rwanda, however, overlooks two sad truths: Widespread slaughter can demand intervention even if it falls outside of the genocide standard. And the world is quite capable of standing by and watching even when a genocide is acknowledged.

    To a remarkable extent, the term genocide was the product of one man's work. As Samantha Power recounts in her recent book " 'A Problem From Hell': America and the Age of Genocide," Raphael Lemkin placed the term into public discourse and international law through sheer willpower. A Polish Jew who narrowly escaped the Nazis, Lemkin was instrumental in drafting and winning support for the 1948 Convention on the Prevention of Genocide. He wanted a law that captured the unique horror of a concerted campaign to deny a specific group's right to exist, and that is what he got.

    In international law, genocide is a crime of specific intent -- it requires that the guilty parties intended to destroy all or part of an ethnic, racial, national or religious community. Identifying that intent can be a difficult struggle.

    In 1995, Bosnian Serb forces killed 8,000 Muslim men and boys in the besieged town of Srebrenica. It was Europe's worst massacre since World War II. But when the U.N. tribunal finally got hold of one of the Bosnian Serb generals who had been at Srebrenica, it found him guilty only of aiding and abetting genocide -- not actually committing it. "Convictions for genocide," that court said, "can be entered only where intent has been unequivocally established." Try as they might, the prosecutors in that case could not document the Serb officer's intent.

    If getting inside the mind of the killers is one complication, identifying and classifying the victims is another. The commission investigating Darfur, for example, immersed itself in the details of local tribal structures as it tried to puzzle out whether the victims of that conflict fit under the definition of genocide. "The various tribes that have been the subject of attacks and killings," the report conceded, "do not appear to make up ethnic groups distinct from the ethnic group to which persons or militias that attack them belong." Only after lengthy analysis did the authors conclude that the victimized population in Darfur was a different tribe and therefore a "protected group." But they were still unable to identify the intent needed to show genocide.

    Documenting genocidal intent and determining whether the victims are part of a protected group eats up time when time is of the essence; a few weeks of concentrated violence killed more than 800,000 people in Rwanda. Waiting for the lawyers to decide is perilous, as became apparent once again when the Sudan commission released its report. To many observers, it appeared that the U.N. experts were downgrading the Darfur crisis when it was really struggling -- in good lawyerly fashion -- to meet a high evidentiary burden.

    Perversely, the intense focus on genocide has allowed a U.N. report that documents widespread atrocities to serve as moral cover for continued official lethargy. The United States has been the leading player in diplomatic efforts in the Sudan, but has not pushed as aggressively as it could for sanctions. Europe -- and France, in particular -- has talked a good game but done little. Russia and China, both U.N. Security Council members, have made only the weakest gestures of concern. And so staunching the bloodshed in Darfur has been left to a small, ill-equipped force from the African Union (A.U.), a regional economic and security organization.

    There is an alternative to this intense focus on genocide. The category of "crimes against humanity" -- first used to describe the massacres of Armenians after World War I and then codified at the Nuremberg trials -- is simpler and broader but still morally powerful. It encompasses large-scale efforts to kill, abuse or displace populations. It avoids messy determinations of whether the victims fit into the right legal box and whether the killers had a sufficiently evil mindset. Do we really care, after all, whether the victims of atrocities are members of a distinct tribe or simply political opponents of the regime?

    Moving beyond what has by now become a warped diplomatic parlor game (who will say the G-word first?) would have the added benefit of shifting the debate from the abstract to the practical. The word genocide may be too powerful for its own good. It conjures up images of a relentless and irrational evil that must be confronted massively. It is almost paralyzing. We are used to fighting crime; genocide seems to require a crusade.

    There are small but concrete steps that the United States could take to fight the mass killings and crimes in Darfur, without sending a U.S. combat force. The most critical step would be to bolster the African Union force there now. For almost a decade, the United States has sought to strengthen Africa's ability to tend to its own crises. That effort -- and tens of thousands of lives -- are on the line in Sudan.

    The A.U. has promised a force of almost 3,500 troops, but only about half of them have arrived. Getting those soldiers to Darfur fast may require airlift capacity that is a U.S. specialty. And the fragile A.U., which is struggling to bear the costs of the Sudan operation, needs immediate cash infusions. Both the United States and Europe have pledged funds, but they have been slow in coming.

    The Darfur Accountability Act, introduced in the U.S. Senate last week, calls for increased aid to the A.U. force, as well as a military no-fly zone and a tight arms embargo. It's a start. If the government in Khartoum gets in the way, the Security Council should impose tough and targeted sanctions. And if China and Russia get in the way of the Council, the United States and Europe should act without it. The United States and Britain (which has gone furthest in discussing a deployment) should send their own small tripwire force to accompany the African monitors.

    Some of these measures may require a U.S. policy that borders on unilateralism. But this administration has not shown undue patience with or deference to the often dysfunctional and amoral U.N. Security Council -- and there's no reason to start now. As Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld put it in another context, "the mission defines the coalition." And the mission of fighting crimes against humanity must be a central one, as it was in Bosnia and Kosovo and should have been in Rwanda and at an earlier stage in Sierra Leone.

    Realities, not labels, should define our response. The word genocide, rightly, has a unique moral impact. But the concept -- and the interminable debate about its boundaries -- must not become the issue. When the world chooses to immerse itself in terminology rather than take action, it does today's very real victims no good at all.

    Man's Inhumanity

    The mass murder of civilians in acts of genocide and other crimes against humanity stand out amid a hundred years of bloody warfare. Here are estimates of death tolls from some of the many episodes. The exact numbers will never be known.

    ARMENIANS IN TURKEY (1915-18)
    1.5 million

    STALIN'S FORCED FAMINE IN UKRAINE (1932-33)
    7 million

    JAPANESE MASSACRE OF CHINESE (The Rape of Nanjing, 1937)
    300,000

    NAZI GERMANY AND THE HOLOCAUST (1938-45)
    6 million

    POL POT IN CAMBODIA (1975-79)
    2 million

    BOSNIA (1992-95)
    200,000

    RWANDA (1994)
    800,000

    SOURCE: COMMITTEE ON CONSCIENCE AT THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM

  • #2
    ARMENIANS IN TURKEY (1915-18)
    Thats Turks in Armenia....

    I have to say, I can see that a pro committee needs official standards and definitions just to make sure that everyone can be clear and agree without objectivity. You and I can cry about 300,000 people, but that is no evidence that every member of a committee will see it the same way. We cannot go by intuition and such when it comes to this. Standards and definitions need to be in place, and need to be clear.

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    • #3
      well its what happend in rwanda. the UN didnt call it a genocide so they didnt have to get involved. part of the UN charter is to stop[ genocide around the world. well if they dont call it genocide they dont have to do anything.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ArmenianKid
        well its what happend in rwanda. the UN didnt call it a genocide so they didnt have to get involved. part of the UN charter is to stop[ genocide around the world. well if they dont call it genocide they dont have to do anything.
        Really ?? Where did you get both those bits of info? Both are wrong I think. The UN did classify the massacres in Rwanda as genocide. It is not part of the UNs charter to "stop" genocide, any more than it is your country's constitution or state laws to "stop" murder. It merely advocates its prevention and encourages the prosecution, either internally or externally, of those accused of complicity in it.
        Plenipotentiary meow!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by bell-the-cat
          Really ?? Where did you get both those bits of info? Both are wrong I think. The UN did classify the massacres in Rwanda as genocide. It is not part of the UNs charter to "stop" genocide, any more than it is your country's constitution or state laws to "stop" murder. It merely advocates its prevention and encourages the prosecution, either internally or externally, of those accused of complicity in it.
          go look up a copy of it. i heard this stright from the history channel. a part of the UN charter says "the act of genocide or any other act of mass murder will be acted upon with force" they did not classify it as a genocide untill it was over.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bell-the-cat
            Really ?? Where did you get both those bits of info? Both are wrong I think. The UN did classify the massacres in Rwanda as genocide. It is not part of the UNs charter to "stop" genocide, any more than it is your country's constitution or state laws to "stop" murder. It merely advocates its prevention and encourages the prosecution, either internally or externally, of those accused of complicity in it.
            I'm not exactly sure what ArmenianKid is referring to, but I was watching a lengthy documentary on the genocide in Rwanda and I distictly remember a woman reporter (whom I believe was Irish if I'm not mistaken) showing a copy of a memo which said not to use the word genocide as they would have to intervene if it was called as such. However, I believe this memo was from the Klinton administration and not a UN memo. Regardless, it was a dirty thing to do and countless people needlessly died because of it. I could also say that Armenians suffered a similar fate (at the inaction of people and countries with the power to stop it as they had the power to stop the Rwanda Genocide), but it was drawn out for a much longer period of time of years and even decades (I'm counting from the 1880s or at the very least from 1895 to the mid 1920s) as opposed to months in the Rwanda case.
            [SIZE=2][COLOR=DarkOrchid]"First and foremost, terror is for us a part of the political war appropriate for the circumstances of today...” — Yitzhak Shamir[/COLOR]ZE][/SI]

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            • #7
              all i can see is some people pushes us into a mud pool of definitions and terms... while we try to swim in that pool we forget about the real issue... in case of Armenian genocide it is a crime (whatever you name it)... if you kill civillians (10 or 1.5 million whats the difference) it is a crime and it must be punished...

              i can honestly say that even if CUP has nothing to do with the killing of Armenian citizens, failure to protect Ottoman citizens is a crime and still needs to be punished...

              and also as i can see international organizations are full of bullkaka... they got the power to stop everything but just watches the killings and later discuss if it was a genocide or else...

              Comment


              • #8
                [QUOTE]
                Originally posted by Otto
                all i can see is some people pushes us into a mud pool of definitions and terms... while we try to swim in that pool we forget about the real issue...
                There is no mud pool in actuality. The term genocide was put in place to clearly define the crime althoiugh the clarity of the definition leaves much to be desired, it's still more accurate than "massacre" which is more appropriate for things like the Columbine shootings. What you call a mud pool is created by those who are trying to cover up the crime and/or sweep it under the rug by trying to use softer language to minimize the scope and severity of the crime by staying away from the "G" word when its in their intre$t$. I'm surprise that no one has claimed it was an accident, although I have heard the "S**t happens" excuse many times. Maybe not in so many words, but saying things like there was a war going on is not any different.

                in case of Armenian genocide it is a crime (whatever you name it)... if you kill civillians (10 or 1.5 million whats the difference) it is a crime and it must be punished...
                The difference is intent. Logic alone can easily show the intent when 1.5 million people are killed as opposed to a mere 10 which happens just about every day.The only reason I can sort of agree with your statement is because of the vagueness of the UN convention's wording where it says "In whole or in part", therefore killing 10 people of a specific group can be easily considered as a genocide if you go by their definition as it is, but thet's kind of silly as every single conflict in the world could be called a genocide. It needs major clarification in my opinion.

                i can honestly say that even if CUP has nothing to do with the killing of Armenian citizens, failure to protect Ottoman citizens is a crime and still needs to be punished...
                I don't agree. There's a difference between "failure" and "criminal negligence". In the case of the CUP and the AG, the "official" date which marks the beggining of the AG is April 24, 1915, but the genocide had started much earlier. I say the genocide started as early as 1895 and probably even earlier, but because they didn't have the opportunity to do it full scale as the cover of WWI offered, they did it every chance they got. The alleged killings of 100,000 albanians (which turned out to be untrue and the numbers were drastically reduced to 40,000, then to 20,000, then to 10,000 and the final body count in that conflict revealed that only 2,500 people had been killed plus there was no distinction made as to whether those bodiers were of albanians, Serbs or other. Plus the final count is dead Serb civillians due to NATO bombings was also 2,500.) could be considered as a genocide, then killing 300,000 Armenian from 1895-1896 can most certainly qualify as a genocide. In 1909, the government had secretly incited violence and the massacre of the Armenians and they only sent in troops to pretend to stop it, after the damage was already done.

                and also as i can see international organizations are full of bullkaka... they got the power to stop everything but just watches the killings and later discuss if it was a genocide or else...
                Yes they are, but if you have noticed, sometimes they cry genocide when there is no genocide as in the case of Kosovo. They simply invent a genocide whenever they need one in order to meet their objectives and in their intre$t$, otherwise they look the other way. In the case of the alleged jewish holocaust, this was another invented genocide. The Germans simply wanted the jews out, but the zionist leaders made sure they didn't get out, they wanted to use the deaths of European jews to be used as payment for a jewish state in Palestine and the bombing of supply lines by the allies and the Soviets to sever the supply lines to the concentration camps made sure that all the detaineed would starve to death and disease would most certainly break out causing even more deaths. Then they watz in and claim it was all done by the Nazis puposely and voila, you have a fabricated genocide which was very convinient to the zionists and those who wanted to see Germany totally crushed and destroyed. In the case of the AG, they (those other than the turks themselves) didn't simply look away. They looked away because they would profit from the AG and in many cases they facilitated, endorsed and even aided the genocide one way or another. Germany is a perfect example, but there were others involved as well. In my opinion, all of Europe is also responsible as is the US and that is one good reason why they are reluctant to accept the AG as a genocide, because all the dirt will come out in the wash and the whole world will see exactly what went on and who is responsible.
                Last edited by Pamooshjian; 06-26-2005, 12:12 PM.
                [SIZE=2][COLOR=DarkOrchid]"First and foremost, terror is for us a part of the political war appropriate for the circumstances of today...” — Yitzhak Shamir[/COLOR]ZE][/SI]

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