Why don't Turks accept Genocide?

[TETurkhan]

I am curious to know what people here in these forums think are the reasons why most Turks - living in Turkiye or abroad don't accept such genocide took place.

This is a genuine question, please refrain from turning this thread into a hate/meaningless one.

Thanks.

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: Why don't Turks accept Genocide?

I am curious to know what people here in these forums think are the reasons why most Turks - living in Turkiye or abroad don't accept such genocide took place.

This is a genuine question, please refrain from turning this thread into a hate/meaningless one.

Thanks.

Quite frankly I don't care really, but I will take the pain to answer to your question since at the moment I have nothing entertaining to do.

There are many reasons.

One of them is that they, well not exactly them since the Turks back then had no Turkish consciousness but rather a Muslim consciousness, as well lost millions of their people during the various wars that have occurred from 1895 and onwards until 1923. So in this sense they find it unfair that everyone is negating their victims and frankly they have a point here. That though still doesn't change the nature of the genocide.

Another reason, a very important one, is the ultra-nationalism that exists in Turkey and the personality-cult with regards to Dadaturk. As a result they are being habitually brainwashed by their media, which falsely portrays the Turks always as the poor victims and the westerns as always the barbaric invaders.

Essentially they are doing exactly what they accuse ''the west'' is doing towards them.

Either way it is relatively difficult for ultra-nationalists, of any nation, to admit the dirty laundry of his country.

These are some of the key reasons I believe.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Why don't Turks accept Genocide?

I am curious to know what people here in these forums think are the reasons why most Turks - living in Turkiye or abroad don't accept such genocide took place.

This is a genuine question, please refrain from turning this thread into a hate/meaningless one.

Thanks.

Most Turks (in Turkey) simply don't care.

For most Turks (in Turkey) the only association they have with the word "Armenian" is when it crops up in the context of some foreign group or individual doing something to try and stop something that is in the interests of Turkey.

Also, in Islam there is no such thing as the concept of the transfer of guilt and dishonour from one generation to another. So, even if they had some awareness that something wrong happened in 1915, there would be no comprehension amongst today's Turks they should do anything about it, including recognising that it happened.

As for the scum that seems to flourish amongst the Turkish diaspora - the best reason that I can give to Turkey for the recognition of the Armenian genocide is that it will stop the fascistic elements amongst Turkey's diaspora from speaking in Turkey's name and embarassing it throughout the world.

[Sip]

Re: Why don't Turks accept Genocide?

The reasons are pretty simple and I pretty much agree with what has been said above ...

1. All the textbooks and "information" they are exposed to has been tailored for that specific purpose. Anyone who is told something (even if something as obviously false as what the Turks are told about the Genocide issue) from very early on, will be very resistive to accepting otherwise.

2. The consequences of accepting the truth are too scary. Basically, accepting the true history undermines the rediculous pride many turks hold about their nation (not to say that other nations aren't just as rediculously proud).

[Vagharshapat]

Re: Why don't Turks accept Genocide?

Let me tell you something. I am living in Turkey and everybody knows about "something" that took place in 1915. Everybody knows about it but they dont talk about it. My grandfather told me that they put Armenians on ships in Trabzon and unloaded them into the sea or my father was telling me what happened in Yozgat. If you ask the people in Anatolia they would say that the rivers were running blood at that time. Everybody knows what happened but they try to forget it, they try to erase it because it disturbs their conscience. And why are they denying it? Because if they accept that Turkey is built on the bones of Armenians then they have to accept that Turkey is not a legitimate country, so the state itself will be questioned and will have to pay a great compensation.

[gmd]

Re: Why don't Turks accept Genocide?

Let me tell you something. I am living in Turkey and everybody knows about "something" that took place in 1915. Everybody knows about it but they dont talk about it. My grandfather told me that they put Armenians on ships in Trabzon and unloaded them into the sea or my father was telling me what happened in Yozgat. If you ask the people in Anatolia they would say that the rivers were running blood at that time. Everybody knows what happened but they try to forget it, they try to erase it because it disturbs their conscience. And why are they denying it? Because if they accept that Turkey is built on the bones of Armenians then they have to accept that Turkey is not a legitimate country, so the state itself will be questioned and will have to pay a great compensation.

If you are right, and I have no reason or desire to doubt you, then what does this mean for Turkey's survival as a nation? I think if a family tries to live in denial of some dark history then it will eventually break up. Why should a nation be any different? Aren't Turks worried about this.

[Vagharshapat]

Re: Why don't Turks accept Genocide?

You know that some nations get away with what they have done. The reason for this is the interest-partnership between the powers. So these powers turn a blind eye to eachothers' crimes. They sweep them under the rag. Because Turkey is more powerful than Armenia and Armenia is a poor country and they dont want to break their partnership and relations with their strong friend(!) Turkey, they just stay silent. You see everything is money and all the big countries are opportunists. Sometimes they seem to support the Armenians due to the pressure coming from their Armenian citizens living in those countries but these countries are all hypocrites as always, like they let down Armenians 90 years ago. So the Turks have nothing to worry about, because when a country talks about genocide they threaten and blackmail that country. But if these countries are considering themselves as just, fair and true(we know they are not) then they must put a pressure on Turkey without being concerned of the economical losses so the Turks can worry...

[gmd]

Re: Why don't Turks accept Genocide?

You know that some nations get away with what they have done. The reason for this is the interest-partnership between the powers. So these powers turn a blind eye to eachothers' crimes. They sweep them under the rag. Because Turkey is more powerful than Armenia and Armenia is a poor country and they dont want to break their partnership and relations with their strong friend(!) Turkey, they just stay silent. You see everything is money and all the big countries are opportunists. Sometimes they seem to support the Armenians due to the pressure coming from their Armenian citizens living in those countries but these countries are all hypocrites as always, like they let down Armenians 90 years ago. So the Turks have nothing to worry about, because when a country talks about genocide they threaten and blackmail that country. But if these countries are considering themselves as just, fair and true(we know they are not) then they must put a pressure on Turkey without being concerned of the economical losses so the Turks can worry...

I don't see the problems of Turkey being isolated to just its history with Armenians. Turkey continues to marginilize its minorities (who do not assimilate and accept a Turkish identity). Although, Turkey has allies it does not have any true allies in the region. It has just as dark a history with Arabs, Greeks, and Iran. To me it appears that the Islamic culture is also supressed by the military controlled western appearing gov't. Regardless of the issue with Armenians it seems the identity of Turkey as a cohesieve nation and people are not set. Do you not see this as a ticking bomb?

[Vagharshapat]

Re: Why don't Turks accept Genocide?

I don't see the problems of Turkey being isolated to just its history with Armenians. Turkey continues to marginilize its minorities (who do not assimilate and accept a Turkish identity). Although, Turkey has allies it does not have any true allies in the region. It has just as dark a history with Arabs, Greeks, and Iran. To me it appears that the Islamic culture is also supressed by the military controlled western appearing gov't. Regardless of the issue with Armenians it seems the identity of Turkey as a cohesieve nation and people are not set. Do you not see this as a ticking bomb?

I totally agree with you. Turkey is a so-called democratic republic but infact an undercover fascist country. Turkey still uses the constitution prepared by the military junta in 1982. One Turkish identity is enforced and others are strongly rejected, they brainwash people from elementary schools to so-called universities. And as you mentioned they even supress their Islamic culture and religious people. Now what is the people of Turkey doing to all of this? Before 1980 there was a lot of revolutionary action going on in Turkey. But 1980 was the turning point. Thousands of people killed, persecuted and tortured by the military junta. So many intellectuals perished. So the people of Turkey cowered in fear. After 1980 Turkey became an apolitic country. They laid people to sleep. They became an unquestioning and obeying nation, they became like sheep. They knew that this regime could do anything to sustain its dominance. that they dont let any other ideologies to blossom.
Before 1980 there was a civil war. It was a rightist-leftist war. People were divided into two. But today we cannot talk about a leftist side. Because due to rising nationalism in Turkey all the leftists turned to National leftism(like national socialism) as we name it fascism. Extreme nationalists(mhp) and these leftists now share the same ideas and same point of views. İt is a very dangerous thing. They all took sides with the Army. Army is the greatest power in Turkey it serves Kemalist ideology. So the supression is higher and higher on Kurds and the Islamists. But they got nothing to do. Because what opposes them is the Army and the great majority of the Turkish people so their only hope is to get into the European Union to get their rights. But of course in this situation it doesnt seem possible. (You know that there is a political party called akp which we can name as an islamic party and they are in power(!), even they cant do anything out of fear of the army.)
So even if there is a ticking bomb, the army takes care of it. And the bomb implodes inside the people...

[gmd]

Re: Why don't Turks accept Genocide?

I totally agree with you. Turkey is a so-called democratic republic but infact an undercover fascist country. Turkey still uses the constitution prepared by the military junta in 1982. One Turkish identity is enforced and others are strongly rejected, they brainwash people from elementary schools to so-called universities. And as you mentioned they even supress their Islamic culture and religious people. Now what is the people of Turkey doing to all of this? Before 1980 there was a lot of revolutionary action going on in Turkey. But 1980 was the turning point. Thousands of people killed, persecuted and tortured by the military junta. So many intellectuals perished. So the people of Turkey cowered in fear. After 1980 Turkey became an apolitic country. They laid people to sleep. They became an unquestioning and obeying nation, they became like sheep. They knew that this regime could do anything to sustain its dominance. that they dont let any other ideologies to blossom.
Before 1980 there was a civil war. It was a rightist-leftist war. People were divided into two. But today we cannot talk about a leftist side. Because due to rising nationalism in Turkey all the leftists turned to National leftism(like national socialism) as we name it fascism. Extreme nationalists(mhp) and these leftists now share the same ideas and same point of views. İt is a very dangerous thing. They all took sides with the Army. Army is the greatest power in Turkey it serves Kemalist ideology. So the supression is higher and higher on Kurds and the Islamists. But they got nothing to do. Because what opposes them is the Army and the great majority of the Turkish people so their only hope is to get into the European Union to get their rights. But of course in this situation it doesnt seem possible. (You know that there is a political party called akp which we can name as an islamic party and they are in power(!), even they cant do anything out of fear of the army.)
So even if there is a ticking bomb, the army takes care of it. And the bomb implodes inside the people...

no power is absolute. all tyrants eventually meet their end. be it joining eu or turning east it seems Turkey must adjust its self-image to be succesful.