Massacres At Trebizond And Erzrum

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Massacres At Trebizond And Erzrum

do you really think ottoman archives can be found on the net
and where is your proof for the claimes you make I come here with proof that the massacres happend but you still haven't given any proof

[ottomans]

Re: Massacres At Trebizond And Erzrum

The Armenian Massacres in 1894-1896 were the first near-genocidal series of atrocities committed against the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire.

WHAT IS GENOCIDE?

The replacement was presented by the Armenians and hostile states as a massacre and genocide against Armenians, and a massive propaganda campaign was launched against the Ottomans.

Genocide is the crime of annihilation of human groups because of racial, national, ethnic and religious differences. It can be perpetrated only directly by a Government or under its consent. In order to prevent the crime of genocide in the world, the United Nations General Assembly voted in 1948 the Genocide Convention, to which Turkey adhered in 1950.

The mention of genocide reminds the massive massacres perpetrated by Nazis against xxxs and other ethnic groups In World War II. In this period lasting from 1939 to 1945 six million xxxs, more than three millions of Soviet prisoners of war, more than one million Polish and Yugoslav civilians, about 200.000 Gypsies and 70.000 disabled persons were murdered. This is genocide in the true sense of the word.

Similarly, an imposing number of genocides have been committed in the recent years despite the United Nations Convention. For example, the confessions of two retired French generals published in the daily Le Monde show that the French army murdered at least one million Algerians between 1954 and 1962, while the Indonesian army massacred a full one million communists and their family members in 1965 and 1966, the Red Khmer killed 1,7 million Cambodians between 1975 and 1979, 500.000 Tutsis were beheaded by Huttus of Ruanda in 1994 and thousands of Moslems were exposed to Serbian atrocities in Bosnia-Herzegovina and Kosovo.

The crime of genocide was committed in the above cases in its most blatant form. Contrary to the Armenian pretensions, the measures adopted regarding the Armenians in Eastern Anatolia was merely a replacement in another region within the Empire for security reasons and had nothing to do with genocide.

It is true that there were Armenian losses during the war and the replacement operation but they were actually due to the failure of establishment of order because of the war and the revolts in Eastern Anatolia., together with hunger, lack of food and fuel, adverse climatic conditions and epidemics such as typhus. There was no genocide or a planned massacre whatsoever.

It is a fact that the Armenians were subjected to many similar replacements in the past for treason against the states under whose hegemonies they were living. the Sasanites moved 70.000 Armenians to Iran in 379 AD, the Byzantines relocated 40.000 East Anatolian Armenians in Sivas and Kayseri in 1025, the Mameluks sent 10.000 to Egypt, the Iranians dispersed 24.000 into the country and the Russians invading Crimea sent thousands of Armenians into the Siberian steppes.

Without mentioning any of these preceding replacements and exiles, the Armenians strive to make a genocide issue out of their replacement undertaken in 1915 for undeniably sound reasons by the Ottoman State. This attitude is the product of policies designed to break apart the integrity of Turkey. The most obvious evidence of this phenomenon lies in the fact that the Western powers, oblivious to the true genocide events in Africa, the Balkans and several other parts of the world, lend support to the claims of genocide against Armenians.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Massacres At Trebizond And Erzrum

FACT SHEET: ARMENIAN GENOCIDE
KNIGHTS OF VARTAN ARMENIAN RESEARCH CENTER
The University of Michigan-Dearborn
Dearborn, MI 48128


The Armenian Genocide was carried out by the "Young Turk" government of the Ottoman Empire in 1915-1916 (with subsidiaries to 1922-23). One and a half million Armenians were killed, out of a total of two and a half million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire.
Most Armenians in America are children or grandchildren of the survivors, although there are still many survivors amongst us.

Armenians all over the world commemorate this great tragedy on April 24, because it was on that day in 1915 when 300 Armenian leaders, writers, thinkers and professionals in Constantinople (present day Istanbul) were rounded up, deported and killed. Also on that day in Constantinople, 5,000 of the poorest Armenians were butchered in the streets and in their homes.

The Armenian Genocide was masterminded by the Central Committee of the Young Turk Party (Committee for Union and Progress [Ittihad ve Terakki Cemiyet, in Turkish]) which was dominated by Mehmed Talât [Pasha], Ismail Enver [Pasha], and Ahmed Djemal [Pasha]. They were a racist group whose ideology was articulated by Zia Gökalp, Dr. Mehmed Nazim, and Dr. Behaeddin Shakir.

The Armenian Genocide was directed by a Special Organization (Teshkilati Mahsusa) set up by the Committee of Union and Progress, which created special "butcher battalions," made up of violent criminals released from prison.

Some righteous Ottoman officials such as Celal, governor of Aleppo; Mazhar, governor of Ankara; and Reshid, governor of Kastamonu, were dismissed for not complying with the extermination campaign. Any common Turks who protected Armenians were killed.

The Armenian Genocide occurred in a systematic fashion, which proves that it was directed by the Young Turk government.

First the Armenians in the army were disarmed, placed into labor battalions, and then killed.

Then the Armenian political and intellectual leaders were rounded up on April 24, 1915, and then killed.

Finally, the remaining Armenians were called from their homes, told they would be relocated, and then marched off to concentration camps in the desert between Jerablus and Deir ez-Zor where they would starve and thirst to death in the burning sun.

On the march, often they would be denied food and water, and many were brutalized and killed by their "guards" or by "marauders." The authorities in Trebizond, on the Black Sea coast, did vary this routine: they loaded Armenians on barges and sank them out at sea.

The Turkish government today denies that there was an Armenian genocide and claims that Armenians were only removed from the eastern "war zone." The Armenian Genocide, however, occurred all over Anatolia [present-day Turkey], and not just in the so-called "war zone." Deportations and killings occurred in the west, in and around Ismid (Izmit) and Broussa (Bursa); in the center, in and around Angora (Ankara); in the south-west, in and around Konia (Konya) and Adana (which is near the Mediterranean Sea); in the central portion of Anatolia, in and around Diyarbekir (Diyarbakir), Harpout (Harput), Marash, Sivas (Sepastia), Shabin Kara-Hissar (ŝebin Karahisar), and Ourfa (Urfa); and on the Black Sea coast, in and around Trebizond (Trabzon), all of which are not part of a war zone. Only Erzeroum, Bitlis, and Van in the east were in the war zone.

The Armenian Genocide was condemned at the time by representatives of the British, French, Russian, German, and Austrian governments—namely all the major Powers. The first three were foes of the Ottoman Empire, the latter two, allies of the Ottoman Empire. The United States, neutral towards the Ottoman Empire, also condemned the Armenian Genocide and was the chief spokesman in behalf of the Armenians.

The American people, via local Protestant missionaries, did the most to save the wretched remnants of the death marches, the orphaned children.

Despite Turkish denial, there is no doubt about the Armenian Genocide. For example, German ambassador Count von Wolff-Metternich, Turkey's ally in World War I, wrote his government in 1916 saying: "The Committee [of Union and Progress] demands the annihilation of the last remnants of the Armenians and the [Ottoman] government must bow to its demands."

German consuls stationed in Turkey, including Vice Consul Max Erwin von Scheubner-Richner of Erzerum [Erzurum] who was Adolf Hitler's chief political advisor in the 1920s, were eyewitnesses. Hitler said to his generals on the eve of sending his Death's Heads units into Poland, "Go, kill without mercy . . . who today remembers the annihilation of the Armenians."

Henry Morgenthau Sr., the neutral American ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, sent a cable to the U.S. State Department in 1915:

"Deportation of and excesses against peaceful Armenians is increasing and from harrowing reports of eye witnesses [sic] it appears that a campaign of race extermination is in progress under a pretext of reprisal against rebellion."
Morgenthau's successor as Ambassador to Turkey, Abram Elkus, cabled the U.S. State Department in 1916 that the Young Turks were continuing an ". . . unchecked policy of extermination through starvation, exhaustion, and brutality of treatment hardly surpassed even in Turkish history."

Only one Turkish government, that of Damad Ferit Pasha, has ever recognized the Armenian genocide. In fact, that Turkish government held war crimes trials and condemned to death the major leaders responsible.

The Turkish court concluded that the leaders of the Young Turk government were guilty of murder. "This fact has been proven and verified." It maintained that the genocidal scheme was carried out with as much secrecy as possible. That a public facade was maintained of "relocating" the Armenians. That they carried out the killing by a secret network. That the decision to eradicate the Armenians was not a hasty decision, but "the result of extensive and profound deliberations."

Ismail Enver Pasha, Ahmed Cemal Pasha, Mehmed Talât Bey, and a host of others were convicted by the Turkish court and condemned to death for "the extermination and destruction of the Armenians."

The Permanent People's Tribunal recognized the Armenian Genocide on April 16, 1984.

The European Parliament voted to recognize the Armenian Genocide on June 18, 1987.

President Bush issued a news release in 1990 calling on all Americans to join with Armenians on April 24 in commemorating "the more than a million Armenian people who were victims."

President Clinton issued a news release on April 24, 1994, to commemorate the "tragedy" that befell the Armenians in 1915.

The Russian Duma (the lower house of the bicameral Russian legislature) voted on April 20, 1994, to recognize the Armenian Genocide.

Israel officially condemned the Armenian Genocide as Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Yossi Beilin proclaimed on the floor of the Knesset (the Israeli legislature), on April 27, 1994, in answer to the claims of the Turkish Ambassador, that "It was not war. It was most certainly massacre and genocide, something the world must remember."

The Armenian genocide is similar to the xxxish holocaust in many respects. Both people adhere to an ancient religion. Both were religious minorities of their respective states. Both have a history of persecution. Both have new democracies. Both are surrounded by enemies. Both are talented and creative minorities who have been persecuted out of envy and obscurantism.

Issues:


The Republic of Turkey must cease to be the only major country in the world to deny the Armenian Genocide.

The Republic of Turkey must show good will by allowing American aid to present-day Armenia to pass through unhindered.

The Republic of Turkey must cease to train Azerbaijani soldiers in Turkey for the purpose of attacking Armenia.
April 3, 1996

Here this is a American source but where are you're sources you gave information without knowing what you're saying

[ottomans]

Re: Massacres At Trebizond And Erzrum

do you really think ottoman archives can be found on the net
and where is your proof for the claimes you make I come here with proof that the massacres happend but you still haven't given any proof

Ottoman archives are net! They are kept in museums in Istanbul! You can get here! http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/engli...ive/index.html

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Massacres At Trebizond And Erzrum

http://www.greek-genocide.org/ataturk_quote_lae.html

Look what your precius Attaturk is saying about the Armenian genocide he admits it happend

[ottomans]

Turkish Genocide By Greeks(1919-1924)



DOCUMENTED MASSACRES OF GREEKS

In 1919, Greeks entered Anatolia with the support of Entente Powers in order to kill Turkish people living in Anatolia. To reach their goals, they didn't hesitate to kill unarmed civilian people, even children.
We are publishing the documents which first appeared in Historical Documents Magazine. The magazine compiled the documents from
General Directorate of Government Archives. The magazine includes particularly the Greek atrocities, massacres, rapes, arson targeting unarmed Turkish people and their sacred values between 1919-1922, a period in which the occupation of Western Anatolia took place.


Now we have a question: Do Greeks have any right to bring out the "Asia Minor" genocide while they have committed all these massacres, rapes, murders, and plunders against Turkish and Muslim people.

Below, you can see the original documents which prove all of the massacres, robberies, rapes of Greeks.
Date of The Document Summary

May 20, 1919 The report of Izmir Gendarmerie Division to Gendarmerie General Headquarters about the invasion, the murders, rapes, insults of Greeks against Turkish people during the occupation of Izmir

May 20, 1919 The report of the Denizli Gendarmerie Division about murders and invasion of Greeks

July 3, 1919 The report of Aydin Central Command to 57th Division Command informing about the organization, formation and murders of "Aydin Massacre"

July 7, 1919 The report of 57th Division Command to 2nd Army Inspectors about the cruelly murdered Muslim people who happened to escape from the "Burning of Aydin"

July 7, 1919 The report of 57th Division Command to 2nd Army Inspectors about burning of Aydin, killing of civilian people and the head officer, the attorney general and the judge by Greeks

August 1, 1919 The notes about the massacre of people in Cuma quarter during the Battle of Aydin

August 30, 1919 The article by the office of Aydin Governor to Lieutenant Colonel Kadri Bey about murders, insults and robberies of Greeks around Izmir

September 13, 1919 The petition of her father and doctor report about the rape of an 8-year-old girl by Greek soldiers

September 13, 1919 The statement of a girl raped by Greek soldiers

September 13, 1919 The statement of a brother whose sister was raped by Greek soldiers

October 31, 1919 The writing of Heyeti Temsiliye stating that more than five hundred Muslim people in Odemis, Bergama, Tire and Salihli districts have been arrested and tortured with pretext of aiding national forces.
November 7, 1919 The report of Military Police Organization concerning crimes commited by Greeks such as murders, robberies, fire starting, insults against mosques and even Koran in Yenisehir and surrounding villages.
January 30, 1921 The report prepared by the Military Police xxxüyük Directorate and presented to the Western Front Headquarters about the atrocities of Greeks such as theft, plunder, and rape committed against people of xxxüyük and Sögüt.
April 8, 1921 The help request of the Western Front Headquarters from General Staff concerning the fires of Bilecik, Sögüt, xxxüyük, the massacre of the Turkish people, including the müfti of Bilecik, and the suffering of the survivors.
April 10, 1921 The testimony of the captured Greek Lieutenant Teodoros Pedlis about the fire of xxxüyük.
April 11, 1921 The orders of the Western Front Headquarters about the participation of the French writer Madam Glois to the committee formed to investigate the Greek atrocities and destruction in the Western Front region.
October 4, 1921 The letter from Abdülkadir Bey, who medically treated Sidika, burnt by Greek soldiers in Horti Village, to Halide Edip (Adivar) Hanim concerning the event.
November 15, 1922 The report by the 2nd Army Headquarters presented to the Western Front Headquarters about the imprisonment of Turkish villagers, about their mistreatment as POWs and about beheading of some villagers and exhibiting their heads to others.
December 1, 1922 The telegraph from 1st Army Headquarters informing the Western Front Headquarters that in Böceklik, Greek soldiers have burnt 380 of the 1500 people near the station and 30 people in prison.
March 3, 1922 The list prepared by Saruhan Head Office showing the names of Greek soldiers and officers who participated in the atrocities and massacres in Manisa province.
November 22, 1923 The list of the names, prepared by Saruhan Head Office and presented to the Court-martial Presidency, of the Greek soldiers and officers who participated in the atrocities and massacres in Saruhan district during the invasion.
THE CRUELITY AND GENOCIDE PERFORMED BY GREEKS ON MOSLEMS AFTER FIRST WORLD WAR IN ANATOLIA
Monday, 10 April 2006

5 June 1919 Greek soldiers burnt the villages around Ödemiŝ. They killed the Moslem folk.

20 June 1919 As the Greek soldiers massacred Moslem folk in Menemen, The mayor of Akhisar applied to the allied forces.

5 July 1919 Greeks raped Turkish women train passengers in Aziziye station in front of the eyes of their husbands.

1 July 1919 Greeks killed 200 women around Aydŭn and Nazilli

5 July 1919 Turks did not resist the entrance of Greek forces relying upon the European Conference. But Greeks killed hundreds of them.

9 July 1919 Greeks occupying Aydŭn killed Moslem folk, raped the women and captured their assets.
9 July 1919 In Akhisar, Halit Paŝa (General) and his five friends were killed. Their bodies were seperated, ears and noses were cut, eyes were carved.

12 July 1919 Greks ocupying Aydŭn and Nazilli killed more than 2000 Moslems and 300-400 Christians

13 July 1919 Greeks burnt Nazilli although Kuvay-i Milliye gave sufficient time to empty the town.

16 July 1919 Greeks burnt the villages south of Menderes and forced Çine folk to escape

28 July 1919 Greeks massacred Moslems in Salihli and Kestelli

31 July 1919 Greeks put almost 50,000 local folk in emigrant position through burning their villagres between Aydŭn and Nazilli.

2 August 1919 In Germencik 1800 Moslem Young men were killed.

1 March 1921 In West Thrace, Greeks arrested folk, claiming that they were working for comitee, stepped in their houses to seach for guns and tortured them.

11 April 1921 Greeks colected monet from Moslmes, xxxs and Armenians for their military service in Thrace. Moslems in East and Western Thrace between the ages 21-31 were called for military service.

12 July 1921 To find out the guns left for Turks by French army as they abondoned Thrace, Turkish officers were tortured and one of them as killed by torture.

9 August 1921 Lots of Moslems were arrested in Çorlu and killed. Armenians were forced for military service and money is collected from xxxs for 6 months of military service.

7 August 1921 In Görmüt village of Edirne on eof the moslem folk was killed through splitting into pieces.

15 November 1921 The folk was forced to perform a meeting to declare that they were comfortable with Greek administration

14 June 1922 Greek soldiers stepped into two Mosques in Edirne and Malkara and tortured the moslems.

26 February 1924 In Rohovine The gangs that were given gun by the Greek government attacked the animals of Mümin Kahya, seized the sheep, killed Mümin Kahya, his son and the sheperds.
We had to battle!!!!They were making massacres! They were not innocent!

[melikianAvak]

Re: Massacres At Trebizond And Erzrum

Moderaters.

Is this the Turkish Club forum or the Armenian Club forum.

I don't get it. I and my family had to go through the Genocide of the Armenians. That evidently was not bad enough, now I come to this forum to learn and exchange with others of my ethnic origin. But no we can't, we must be highly insulted by the Turkish rubish.

I ask, do the rest of the Armenians here wish to be insulted by this guy?
It seems that the majority of the Turks that come on here try to tell us how respectful they are and that they are very nice people. I can understand why our people wanted nothing to do with them. I ask where are the Turks that are fine and intelligent people.

I am getting to the point of not wanting to come here if I have to put up with the likes of ottoman and a few others.

Where are the decent Turks, speak up if you are there.

[K_B]

Re: Massacres At Trebizond And Erzrum

http://www.greek-genocide.org/ataturk_quote_lae.html

Look what your precius Attaturk is saying about the Armenian genocide he admits it happend

Of course he knew about it! He was stationed there!

[melikianAvak]

Re: Massacres At Trebizond And Erzrum

Why didn't you mension the massacres commited by the sultan if you're telling something tell the whole story not the only part sounds best to you. Like I said before go an dstudy real history and not the BS propaganda of the Turkish goverment
And Asala were freedom fighters to many people the only ones they killed were Turkish diplomats and don't see what's wrong with that

Miyayn zenkov guka Hayots prgutyun!!!

[ottomans]

Re: Massacres At Trebizond And Erzrum

we must be highly insulted by the Turkish rubish.

I ask, do the rest of the Armenians here wish to be insulted by this guy?
It seems that the majority of the Turks that come on here try to tell us how respectful they are and that they are very nice people. I can understand why our people wanted nothing to do with them. I ask where are the Turks that are fine and intelligent people.
Where are the decent Turks, speak up if you are there.

Realy! I am very suprised! When did I insult to you??
But your friend always insult! No one killed an Armenian in my Family! If you banned me,It is nice But I will return with other Nick and other machine[/COLOR]
About insults For example:

Look kid it was fun whil it lasted now get lost and stop making retarted clames about stuff you've heard from you're xxxxed up mongolian goverment. You think youre a smart person but your not, at first you were funny but now you aren't get lost go jurk of with pic of gay attaturk

I wanna see decent Armenians here!