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Armenia: the end of the debate?

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  • #21
    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

    Originally posted by Catharsis View Post
    Here is the whole article by Ambassador Ara Papian:

    The First Fruits of the Protocols

    BY ARA PAPIAN


    Apologists for the Armenia-Turkey protocols denied all the warnings that there would be negative effects on the Armenian Genocide recognition process, while I, alongwith many others, foresaw that negative consequences would manifest themselves even in those countries that have already recognized the Armenian Genocide. Unfortunately, that turned out to be the case.

    Example:
    Canada is one of those few countries where both the parliament (in 2002 and 2004), as well as the cabinet (in 2006) have recognized the Armenian Genocide. Consequently, since 2004, no self-respecting member of the media would ever publish or broadcast any article or program denying the Armenian Genocide. Moreover, when, in February of 2006, as a reaction to my mentioning the Armenian Genocide as part of a farewell interview to the influential Embassy magazine, the ambassadors of Turkey and Azerbaijan complained, the editor of that periodical responded, without any intervention on my part, that, “the fact of the genocide cannot be disputed, as it is not subject to any doubts”. Clear and precise.

    And what do we have now? Only ten days after signing the protocols, the very same Embassy magazine (on the 21st of October, 2009) published an article by Gwynne Dyer, where it is said that, “the Armenians back home have made a deal … [which] create a joint historical commission to determine what actually happened in 1915”. The author’s concluding remarks of the article state that, “It was not a genocide…”. And this in Canada, which has recognised the Armenian Genocide. As people on the streets say, we have messed with Canada, and she will not forgive us. People don’t forgive those who mess around with them, even in international relations.

    And now for yet another prediction. After the protocols get ratified (God forbid), it would mean legally doubting the Armenian Genocide (please save your arguments for the Canadian courts), upon which the Canadian courts will be filled with applications against the prior governmental declarations for having “insulted honour and dignity”, seeing as we have insulted the Turkish state – and, of course, Canadian citizens of Turkish descent – in a yet-to-be-proven crime (genocide), subject to discussion by some sub-commission.
    Since the Canadian court system provides for monetary compensation with regards to moral damages, I would therefore like to call for an extra line in next year’s state budget of the Republic of Armenia, of a few hundred million dollars (nothing less), to pay for moral damages. Ultimately, we are the ones who are going to billed for these complaints.
    Huh... now let both the geniuses Sarkissian and Nalbandyan to be billed and pay up the Millions of dollars to pay to the Canadian government that the Armenian nation insulted the turkishness of the turkish nation that they used the G word. Very good job Serge and Edward now go and get paid by the turkish nation the mega dollars that you expected. Good job - NOT. Big huge mistake Serge and Edward - you are anything but politicians... kissing the asses of the turks; big idiots, unpatriotic "esheks" donkeys.
    Last edited by Anoush; 10-26-2009, 09:58 AM.
    Հա'յ ժողովուրդ, քո միա'կ բրկութիւնը քո հաւաքական ուժի մէջ է:

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    • #22
      Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

      Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
      I'm sharpening my scissors.
      I've no doubt about your sharp claws and bite to match but do you have anything of substance other than belittling the writers professional credentials. Please offer your insight and help me to understand why you believe a extensively published historian/journalist that is seemingly independent and without an obvious agenda holds a contrary opinion even after he has:

      I read the archival reports on British and Russian negotiations with Armenian revolutionaries after the Ottoman empire entered the First World War on the other side in early 1915. I even read the documents in the Turkish General Staff archives ordering the deportation of the Armenian population from eastern Anatolia later that year.

      Comment


      • #23
        Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

        "Claws and bite" have nothing to do with it. More to the point is the kind of credulity and deference you are willing to offer a writer solely on the basis of an impressive resumé, extensive publication, and unsubstantiated claims of having at some point in the past read this or that, let alone whether the right conclusions were drawn from what he read. And did you ever wonder whether his grasp of Ottoman Turkish was that good as a "budding" historian? Why does he not name one date, place or historic leader of the Armenian revolts he mentions? Yes, he is 'seemingly' independent. Well said. Is that good enough for you? It's not good enough for me; not good enough to justify his disseminating a blatant and cruel falsehood in his far flung media markets, namely that Syria was a salvation point for Armenian deportees, when in fact it was the place they were disposed of in the deserts of Der Zor like so much refuse. Despite his impressive resumé, all his perspicacity seems to vanish when it comes to the Armenians in 1915. Maybe you can explain that to me.

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        • #24
          Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

          Originally posted by Jos View Post
          I've no doubt about your sharp claws and bite to match but do you have anything of substance other than belittling the writers professional credentials. Please offer your insight and help me to understand why you believe a extensively published historian/journalist that is seemingly independent and without an obvious agenda holds a contrary opinion even after he has:

          If the Turkish government has nothing to fear about the historical truth coming out then why all the suppression and state denial undertaken by the fascist junta? Why are courageous scholars who are inside Turkey who have spoken out about the Armenian Genocide have been persecuted, jailed and killed?
          FREE ARMENIAN PATRIOT AVETIS KALAYDJIAN!

          Comment


          • #25
            Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

            This bull crap article by Gwynne Dyer has caused nothing but trouble..................Turks are already using it against us and running it into the ground every chance they get. @$#%&
            B0zkurt Hunter

            Comment


            • #26
              Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

              Originally posted by Diranakir View Post
              Why does he not name one date, place or historic leader of the Armenian revolts he mentions? Yes, he is 'seemingly' independent. Well said. Is that good enough for you? It's not good enough for me; not good enough to justify his disseminating a blatant and cruel falsehood in his far flung media markets, namely that Syria was a salvation point for Armenian deportees, when in fact it was the place they were disposed of in the deserts of Der Zor like so much refuse. Despite his impressive resumé, all his perspicacity seems to vanish when it comes to the Armenians in 1915. Maybe you can explain that to me.
              All good questions. Perhaps the article was designed to stir controversy by raising more questions than answers, I can't be sure. Nevertheless, I would definitely like to see this journalist justify why he has come to the conclusions reached. I just don't see the merit in character assassinating someone just becuase they have an opinion that differs from the existing dogma. Research, discussion, debate in all forms should be encouraged and not just dismissed because of snide remarks or established doctrines.

              Comment


              • #27
                Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

                Jos and Bell Cat are studiously avoiding the very serious historical question
                I raise and prefer to concentrate on personal issues. Why are they avoiding confronting one simple fact? And Dyer is not supposed to raise questions; he is supposed to give answers. That is his billing. But with this article he on the contrary romanticizes his own history as a scholar while very offensively fabricating history. It is a travesty.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

                  Originally posted by Jos View Post
                  All good questions. Perhaps the article was designed to stir controversy by raising more questions than answers, I can't be sure. Nevertheless, I would definitely like to see this journalist justify why he has come to the conclusions reached. I just don't see the merit in character assassinating someone just becuase they have an opinion that differs from the existing dogma. Research, discussion, debate in all forms should be encouraged and not just dismissed because of snide remarks or established doctrines.
                  Why has the complicit Turkish government consistently denied the Armenian Genocide? Denied the verdicts of complete and utter guilt in the implementation of pre-planned and systematically carried out genocide of the Armenian people? Why has the Turkish government denied the verdicts and declarations by The Association of Genocide Scholars, Permanent People's Tribunal, International Center for Transitional Justice (ICTJ), Le Ligue des Droits de l'Homme, The Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity, Human Rights Association of Turkey, European Parliament Resolutions, United Nations War Crimes Commission Report, International Court of Justice, United Nations General Assembly Resolutions and countless, countless more! Why are the Turkish people denied to know the truth?
                  FREE ARMENIAN PATRIOT AVETIS KALAYDJIAN!

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

                    AN ARMENIAN DIASPORA IN HUNGER STRIKE

                    AFTER SEVEN MONTHS IN PRISON





                    It is now seven months Whereas Avédis Bashar Kalaydjian, Armenian of Syria is imprisoned with the charge of said want offensive in the life of President Serge Sarkissian.

                    Born in Aleppo and old today of 45 years, Kalaydjian is historians and political scientists. There émigré in Armenia in 2002 with his wife, singer Flora, obtained the Armenian nationality. There published in Armenia titled book "expansionism. "touranien Turkish and 70 martyrs peoples". Member of the "Republican" party desired resign due to the abuses to the illicit and injustices which the Karabakh fighters imprisonment were victims and which has been the witness. AT this words, it reports that it has taken, to knowledge, words virulent against his own party felt no longer be faithful to the ideology of Nejteh



                    In his testimony, Kalaydjian has denied step the fact that the assassination of President was referred to a meeting between friends, but there said were hot air, launched at the course a lively in the vicinity of the mid-March discussion. He never been question for him to consider an any passage to the Act subsequently.



                    In the letter sent to the President from his prison, Kalaydjian writes that it does was ever prepared to commit an indecent and in particular to kill President; witnesses meeting surrounding a cup of tea (Massis Baghdassarian and Jiraïr) (Mekerdoumian) having said at the time of the evidence that they had no necessary to prevent the authorities considered since they had not taken these words seriously.



                    However, according to Kalaydjian have been reported to the security services National by someone who was not present at This meeting: Kerdéchian, Hovhannes living of Etchmiadzine. It is because of these words in this circle, and only to do this, that he is today imprisoned in his homeland.









                    6 April 2009 Avedis Kalaydjian has therefore been stopped by national under security services the preparation for a murder charge. His wife Flora declares: "is this scenario against my husband." "fully fitted."



                    The accusation towards Avédis Kalaydjian is the preparation of an assassination against players major policies (article 35-305 of the Penal Code), which provides a sentence ranging from 10 to 15 years ' imprisonment or the prison to life.



                    On 20 July 2009, counsel of Avédis, master Artur Grigorian attempted when the last session of the Palace of Justice Nor Nork district of present a simplified the indictment procedure taking into account certain shortcomings in the investigation file.

                    On 23 July, the trial has continued in closed since Kalaydjian had said He would make revelations relating to any Secrets report. Avédis Kalaydjian has since this hearing, applied for a stay of the camera that Ararad Bedrossian j. always refused to date. Since 6 April, it is engaged in a series of hearings that have to date complete any tangible result.



                    27 October 2009, there will be a hearing for 14 th times. The Court should make its verdict and this without having heard witnesses cited by the defence of Avédis Kalaydjian.



                    Due to the final hearing 20 October Avedis Kalaydjian began a hunger strike to protest against this conspiracy and alert the opinion about the injustice of its situation. It has since been transported in an individual cell the Sovedachen prison.



                    With this written after all legal attempts in our power, we are calling to all our fellow citizens the diaspora and Armenia so intervene to his release.

                    Save Avédis, let us be in its sides so that a Patriot family is destroyed.





                    Support Committee

                    On the Avédis Bashar Kalaydjian

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

                      Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
                      This bull crap article by Gwynne Dyer has caused nothing but trouble..................Turks are already using it against us and running it into the ground every chance they get. @$#%&
                      This idiot Dyer is kissing more and more furkey's ass. Why? Because they are bigger, stronger than us and they can give her money. She is another w'hore. What do you expect?
                      Հա'յ ժողովուրդ, քո միա'կ բրկութիւնը քո հաւաքական ուժի մէջ է:

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