Turkish-Armenian signing delayed; Clinton departs

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: Protocols postponed, so now what?

Why are you worried? Most Europeans do not want Turkey in the European Union, and if it went for a vote now dozens of nations would veto. They don't want a nation with human rights abuses that reach to the sun, 100 million more beggars (the wealthier nations many other EU nations as burdens right now), and Greece and the Balkan countries still haven't forgiven Turkey over the Balkan wars. So chance of joining right now = NIL

I don't care about the European Union and I don't care about their accession. The only thing that I am interested in is that the illegal Government of the country signed an accord which doesn't serve our national interests.

I support the opening of the border without pre-conditions. That's all there is to it.

[iversonmania]

Re: Turkish-Armenian signing delayed; Clinton departs

This wasnt going to happen if russia vetoed it.
They sold us out, they probably get recognition of abkhazia/osettia from the US


obviously serge himself didnt want to sign the protocls, but was forced too..
What changed between the first time we refused to sign? and the second time after clinton visited nalbandian? what wording changed? what thing changed??

out of our own will, we were forced to sign.if I was president of armenia, i would have had dignity and resigned

[hipeter924]

Re: Turkish-Armenian signing delayed; Clinton departs

This wasnt going to happen if russia vetoed it.
They sold us out, they probably get recognition of abkhazia/osettia from the US


obviously serge himself didnt want to sign the protocls, but was forced too..
What changed between the first time we refused to sign? and the second time after clinton visited nalbandian? what wording changed? what thing changed??

out of our own will, we were forced to sign.if I was president of armenia, i would have had dignity and resigned

But he had the power, and like most people when they are in power they never want to give it up.

[Icy]

Re: Turkish-Armenian signing delayed; Clinton departs

So does anyone know what happend to Karabkah?
Is it still ours or what?

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: Turkish-Armenian signing delayed; Clinton departs

Of course it is still ours.

[MrHyeSev]

Re: Turkish-Armenian signing delayed; Clinton departs

The latest news:

Turkey, Armenia sign historic accord

ZURICH – Turkey and Armenia signed a landmark agreement Saturday to establish diplomatic relations and open their sealed border after a century of enmity, as U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton helped the two sides clear a last-minute snag.

The contentious issue of whether the killing of up to 1.5 million Armenians during the final days of the Ottoman Empire amounted to genocide is only hinted at in the agreement.

"There were several times when I said to all of the parties involved that this is too important," Clinton said. "This has to be seen through. We have come too far. All of the work that has gone into the protocols should not be walked away from."

The Turkish and Armenian foreign ministers signed the accord in the Swiss city of Zurich after a dispute over the final statements they would make. In the end, the signing took place about three hours later than scheduled and there were no spoken statements.

Clinton and mediators from Switzerland intervened to help broker a solution, U.S. officials said on condition of anonymity, in keeping with State Department regulations. Better ties between Turkey, a regional heavyweight, and poor, landlocked Armenia have been a priority for President Barack Obama, and Clinton had flown to Switzerland to witness the signing, not help close the deal.

Clinton told reporters traveling later on the plane with her to London that both sides had problems with the other's prepared statement and that the Armenian foreign minister had to call his president several times.

She said it became important just to approve the accord and not have the sides make speeches that could be interpreted as putting legal conditions on the document. She told each country that could be done later, "but let the protocols be the statement because that was what we were there to sign."

The accord is expected to win ratification from both nations' parliaments and could lead to a reopening of their border within two months. It has been closed for 16 years.

But nationalists on both sides are still seeking to derail implementation of the deal.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called the signing a "historic decision" that "constitutes a milestone toward the establishment of good neighborly relations," spokeswoman Michele Montas said in New York.

American officials said Clinton; the top U.S. diplomat for Europe, Philip Gordon; and Swiss Foreign Minister Micheline Calmy-Rey were engaged in furious high-stakes shuttle diplomacy with the Turkish and Armenian delegations to resolve the differences.

Diplomats said the Armenians were concerned about wording in the Turkish statement that was to be made after the signing ceremony at University of Zurich and had expressed those concerns "at the last minute" before the scheduled signing ceremony.

Clinton had arrived at the ceremony venue after meeting separately with the Turks and Armenians at a hotel, but abruptly departed without leaving her car when the problem arose.

She returned to the hotel where she spoke by phone from the sedan in the parking lot, three times with the Armenians and four times with the Turks. At one point in the intervention, a Swiss police car, lights and siren blazing, brought a Turkish diplomat to the hotel from the university with a new draft of his country's statement.

After nearly two hours, Clinton and Armenian Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian met in person at the hotel and drove back to the university where negotiations continued. It was not clear if there would be a resolution.

In the end, the Turks and Armenians signed an accord establishing diplomatic ties that could reduce tensions in the troubled Caucasus region and facilitate its growing role as a corridor for energy supplies bound for the West.

The agreement faces nationalist opposition, and protests have been particularly vociferous among the Armenian diaspora.

"The success of Turkey in pressuring Armenia into accepting these humiliating, one-sided protocols proves, sadly, that genocide pays," said Ken Hachikian, chairman of the Armenian National Committee of America.

Major countries, however, expressed their support for the accord, with the foreign ministers of the United States, Russia, France and the European Union in the room to watch the much-delayed signing.

"No problem, they signed," quipped French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner.

In Turkey, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his country was showing "goodwill" to restore ties with Armenia. But he said Turkey was keen on seeing Armenian troops withdrawn from Nagorno-Karabakh, an Armenian-occupied enclave in Azerbaijan that has been a center of regional tensions.

"We are trying to boost our relations with Armenia in a way that will cause no hard feelings for Azerbaijan," Erdogan told reporters.

Armenian President Serge Sarkisian said his country was taking "responsible decisions" in normalizing relations with Turkey, despite what he called the unhealable wounds of genocide.

The agreement calls for a panel to discuss "the historical dimension" of the killing of an estimated 1.5 million Armenians during World War I. The discussion is to include "an impartial scientific examination of the historical records and archives to define existing problems and formulate recommendations."

That clause is viewed as a concession to Turkey, which denies genocide, contending the toll is inflated and that those killed were victims of civil war.

"There is no alternative to the establishment of the relations with Turkey without any precondition," said Sarkisian. "It is the dictate of the time."

Javier Solana, the EU's foreign policy chief, thanked Turkey, which is a candidate for European Union membership.

"This is an important cooperation, no doubt, of Turkey to solve one issue that pertains to a region which is in our neighborhood," Solana told AP Television News.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov also was present for the ceremony in Switzerland, whose diplomats mediated six weeks of talks between Turkey and Armenia to reach the accord. The signing took place in Zurich University's Churchill room, where Winston Churchill gave a speech in 1946.

Swiss Foreign Ministry spokesman Lars Knuchel declined to comment on the contentious issue of speeches but said the important thing was that the accord was signed. He said Switzerland stood ready for further mediation, if both Armenia and Turkey request it as both sides seek to implement the accord and build on them.

A Turkish official, who was not authorized to speak and demanded anonymity, said all sides were happy to dispense with the statements and that the important thing was the signatures means the process can continue.

But Turkey's Ahmet Davutoglu appeared the far happier top envoy as he smiled broadly while posing for photographs and greeting the other foreign ministers in attendance. Armenia's Nalbandian, by contrast, only grudgingly smirked as he shook Davutoglu's hand.

Yilmaz Ates of Turkey's main opposition Republican People's Party said the country should avoid any concessions.

"If Armenia wants to repair relations ... then it should end occupation of Nagorno-Karabakh. That's it," Ates said Saturday.

About 10,000 protesters rallied Friday in Armenia's capital to oppose the signing, and a tour of Armenian communities by Sarkisian sparked protests in Lebanon and France, with demonstrators in Paris shouting "Traitor!"

On the Nagorno-Karabakh issue, Turks have close cultural and linguistic ties with Azerbaijan, which is pressing Turkey for help in recovering its land. Turkey shut its border with Armenia to protest the Armenian invasion of Nagorno-Karabakh in 1993.

Turkey wants Armenia to withdraw some troops from the enclave area to show goodwill and speed the opening of their joint border, but Armenia has yet to agree, said Omer Taspinar, Turkey project director at the Brookings Institution in Washington.

"We may end up in a kind of awkward situation where there are diplomatic relations, but the border is still closed," Taspinar said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_turkey_armenia

[iversonmania]

Re: Turkish-Armenian signing delayed; Clinton departs

funny the last sentence..

diplomatic relations with no open borders. we gave away the genocide for nothing.now we need to give away karabakh.
after we give away karabakh we probably still need to give sthg away

[Icy]

Re: Turkish-Armenian signing delayed; Clinton departs

So theres nothing on the thing Szerh signed
that has anything to do with karabakh?

[iversonmania]

Re: Turkish-Armenian signing delayed; Clinton departs

So theres nothing on the thing Szerh signed
that has anything to do with karabakh?

there is nthg on karabakh, personally i think serzh is trying to do swap deal..

the genocide for karabakh... plus get open borders.

he gave away the genocide.lost the card, but wont get open borders in return as long as karabakh is ours.so what he got to offer the turks this time?

will lose karabakh soon.dont worry

[Anoush]

Re: Turkish-Armenian signing delayed; Clinton departs

But he had the power, and like most people when they are in power they never want to give it up.

If I was pushed to sign I would have put a bullet in me but not sign off Armenia.