No Rabiz Pleaze

[Virgil]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

I am always honest...
Okey, I wait your real proofs...By the way, I understand photomontages..so be careful
Sources shouldn't be from Armenian or Greek

Dude, he was a flaming Homosexual, it is obvious he was a flaming homosexual and that was not question asked, but if you want proof then you should connect the dots:

(a) The "quote" by Ataturk's biographers, Irfan and Margaret Orga, wrote:

"He has never loved a woman. He was used to the camaraderie of the Mess, the craze for handsome young men, [and] fleeting contacts with prostitutes,... His body burned, for a woman or a boy ..."

(b) He was a very "private" indiivdual, he never had biological children and always adopted girls. He was married from 1923 to 1925 to Latife Ussaki. Latife divored due to irreconcilable differences that to this day are not cleary evident. And not suprising the answer resides in her diary that "incidently" has been banned for public investigation by the government. They restricted use by the public right after she died until 2006 and when 2006 rolled around, they extended the ban.

(c) It is also a well known fact that pederasty, literally 'boy-love', (Refers to an intimate or erotic relationship between an adolescent boy and an adult male outside his immediate family and has found expression from earliest times through a variety of customs and practices within different cultures) was rampent in the Ottoman Empire, here is a source:

In the Ottoman empire, same-sex relations between men and youths were often of a mercantile nature. The sex workers involved were either entertainers such as the köçeks or masseurs in the hammams known as tellak. Although zamparas (men drawn to women) outnumbered kulamparas (men drawn to boys) in society, Ottoman military culture (especially that of Janissary culture) had pederasty as a noteworthy aspect[citations needed]. Osman Agha of Temeşvar who fell captive to the Austrians in 1688 wrote in his memoirs that one night an Austrian boy approached him for sex, telling him "for I know all Turks are pederasts".[42]

At times soldiers from the Janissary regiments (named orta) skirmished for rights over a young and beautiful novice (civelek)[citations needed]. In 1770s, Âşık Sadık the poet wrote, in an address to the Sultan: Lût kavmi döğüşür, put kavmi xxxar. Askerin lûtîdir, bil Padişahım ("The people of Lot fight, the people of idolatry spoil. Know, my Sultan, that your soldiers are sodomites").[43] Studies of Ottoman criminal law, which is based on the Sharia, reveal that persistent sodomy with non-consenting boys was a serious offense and those convicted faced capital punishment.

It does not take a half witted individual to notice a clear cut chain of implications. Ataturk was raised in a military upbringing in which "pederasty" was a tradition. He lead a private life and never had biological children. His only wife divorces him due to unknown reasons, reasons, that to this day are being hidden from the historic community. The latter action of denying the public access to diary only strenghtens the hunch that Ataturk was a homosexual, at least, bare minimum, you must acknowledge that there must exists a reason why the diary has been banned. Are you brave enough to confront the facts? I don't know, maybe, but there only exists only two reason why it is banned (a) Ataturk was a homosexual or (b) his wife, Latifa, was a xxxxx or lesbian or something along those lines. And both facts brought to light will only bring down the legend that a entire Turkish national identity rests upon, so, the stakes are high, well only in the mind of nationalistic zealots like Turks, which is fine, but at least don't just censor individuals, if he is or is not homosexual the truth will be in the diary.

Regarding Ataturk's xxxish past:

The Donmè ("convert" in Turkish), was a Hebrew heresy whose followers converted [?] to Islam in the 18th century. They were most heavily concentrated in Thessaloniki. According to the Great Hellenic Encyclopedia [Megali Elliniki Enkiklopethia]: "It is generally accepted that the Donmè secretly continue to adhere to the Hebrew religion and don't allow their kind to intermarry with the Muslims."

The disproportionate power and influence (in light of their number) that the Donmè had on both the Ottoman Empire and on the Young Turk movement has been the subject of a great deal of commentary by many observers and researchers. The eminent British historian, R. Seton Watson, in his book, The Rise of Nationality in the Balkans. London, 1917 (H Gennisi tou Ethnikismou sta Valkania), wrote the following: "The real brains behind the [Itihàt] movement were xxxs or Islamic-xxxs. The wealthy Donmè and xxxs of Thessaloniki supported [the Young Turks] economically, and their fellow xxxish capitalists in Vienna and Berlin -- as well as in Budapest and possibly Paris and London -- supported them financially as well.

In the January 23rd, 1914, issue of the Czarist Police [Okrana] Ledger (Number 16609), directed to the Ministry of the Exterior in Saint Petersburg, we read: "A pan-Islamic convention of Itihàts and xxxs was held in the Nouri Osman lodge in Constantinople. It was attended by approximately 700 prominent Itihàts and xxxs, including "Minister" Talaàt Bey, Bentri Bey, Mbekri Bey, and (Donmè) Javit Bey. Among the many xxxs in attendance, two of the most prominent were the Head of the Security Service, Samouel Effendi, and the Vice-Administrator of the Police, Abraham Bey."

Essentially, there exists Crypto-xxxs in Turkey and Ataturk came from Salonica, one of the historic centers of Sephardic xxxry. Furthermore, in his own words or recorded own words from a xxxish author and witness:

Did Kinross suspect more than he was admitting? I would never have asked had I not recently come across a remarkable chapter while browsing in the out-of-print Hebrew autobiography of Itamar Ben-Avi, son of Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, the leading promoter of the revival of spoken Hebrew in late 19th-century Palestine. Ben-Avi, the first child to be raised in Hebrew since ancient times and later a Hebrew journalist and newspaper publisher, writes in this book of walking into the Kamenitz Hotel in Jerusalem one autumn night in 1911 and being asked by its proprietor: " 'Do you see that Turkish officer sitting there in the corner, the one* with the bottle of arrack?' "

" 'Yes.' "
" 'He's one of the most important officers in the Turkish army.' "
" 'What's his name?' "
" 'Mustafa Kemal.'"
" 'I'd like to meet him,' I said, because the minute I looked at him I was startled by his piercing green eyes."

Ben-Avi describes two meetings with Mustafa Kemal, who had not yet taken the name of Ataturk, 'Father of the Turks.' Both were conducted in French, were largely devoted to Ottoman politics, and were doused with large amounts of arrack. In the first of these, Kemal confided:
"I'm a descendant of Sabbetai Zevi - not indeed a xxx any more, but an ardent admirer of this prophet of yours. My opinion is that every xxx in this country would do well to join his camp."

During their second meeting, held 10 days later in the same hotel, Mustafa Kemal said at one point:
'I have at home a Hebrew Bible printed in Venice. It's rather old, and I remember my father bringing me to a Karaite teacher who taught me to read it. I can still remember a few words of it, such as --' "

And Ben-Avi continues:
"He paused for a moment, his eyes searching for something in space. Then he recalled:
" 'Shema Yisra'el, Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Ehad!'
" 'That's our most important prayer, Captain.'
" 'And my secret prayer too, cher monsieur,' he replied, refilling our glasses."
Although Itamar Ben-Avi could not have known it, Ataturk no doubt meant "secret prayer" quite literally.

Among the esoteric prayers of the Doenme, first made known to the scholarly world when a book of them reached the National Library in Jerusalem in 1935, is one containing the confession of faith:
"Sabbetai Zevi and none other is the true Messiah. Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one."
It was undoubtedly from this credo, rather than from the Bible, that Ataturk remembered the words of the Shema, which to the best of my knowledge he confessed knowing but once in his adult life: to a young Hebrew journalist whom he engaged in two tipsily animated conversations in Jerusalem nearly a decade before he took control of the Turkish army after its disastrous defeat in World War I, beat back the invading Greeks and founded a secular Turkish republic in which Islam was banished - once and for all, so he thought - to the mosques.

Ataturk would have had good reasons for concealing his Doenme origins. Not only were the Doenmes (who married only among themselves and numbered close to 15,000, largely concentrated in Salonika, on the eve of World War I) looked down on as heretics by both Muslims and xxxs, they had a reputation for sexual profligacy that could hardly have been flattering to their offspring. This license, which was theologically justified by the claim that it reflected the faithful's freedom from the biblical commandments under the new dispensation of Sabbetai Zevi, is described by Ezer Weizman's predecessor, Israel's second president, Yitzchak Ben-Zvi, in his book on lost xxxish communities, "The Exiled and the Redeemed":
'Saintly Offspring':

"Once a year [during the Doenmes' annual 'Sheep holiday'] the candles are put out in the course of a dinner which is attended by orgies and the ceremony of the exchange of wives. ... The rite is practiced on the night of Sabbetai Zevi's traditional bithday. ... It is believed that children born of such unions are regarded as saintly."

Although Ben-Zvi, writing in the 1950s, thought that "There is reason to believe that this ceremony has not been entirely abandoned and continues to this day," little is known about whether any of the Doenmes' traditional practices or social structures still survive in modern Turkey. The community abandoned Salonika along with the city's other Turkish residents during the Greco-Turkish war of 1920-21, and its descendants, many of whom are said to be wealthy businessmen and merchants in Istanbul, are generally thought to have assimilated totally into Turkish life.

After sending my fax to Batya Keinan, I phoned to check that she had received it. She had indeed, she said, and would see to it that the president was given it to read on his flight to Ankara. It is doubtful, however, whether Mr. Weizman will allude to it during his visit: The Turkish government, which for years has been fending off Muslim fundamentalist assaults on its legitimacy and on the secular reforms of Ataturk, has little reason to welcome the news that the father of the 'Father of the Turks' was a crypto-xxx who passed on his anti-Muslim sentiments to his son. Mustafa Kemal's secret is no doubt one that it would prefer to continue to be kept.

So, yes, there indeed existed a "Crypto-xxx" movement in Turkey and Ataturk, whether he considered himself xxxish or not, was part of it. So what did I prove today? I proved he could be (a) homosexual and (b) xxxish. Certainly, we can argue that there exists a strong "chain if implications" that leads one to this conclusion.

[Kanki]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

I am always honest...
Okey, I wait your real proofs...By the way, I understand photomontages..so be careful
Sources shouldn't be from Armenian or Greek

[Virgil]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

1)give me a proof about him - being a xxxish
2)share real document real proof to accuse a homosexsuel leader
These are Armenian and Gaygreek slanders...(notice the underline)
I have given real document with my quote...

Really, you should have just been honest, you can call us "Gaymenian" (Really, does it really matter anymore?), but ok, assuming I bring you the proof and convince you of how your fearless leader was what he is accused of being, how would that make you feel? It is a simple question, I am not stating the he is or he is not, I just want to know how you hypothetically will feel if you find out he is indeed a flaming homosexual and xxxish? How can I put this in a more objective way? Just say how you would feel.

[Kanki]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

Kanki, to be fair, I will admit that Ataturk was not a "bad leader", he was good for the Turkish people, again, notice the underline, he was only good for the Turkishpeople. But does it matter if he was flaming homosexual HELL YES! The "leader" that your entire national backbone is built upon turns out to be a gay and xxxish (xxxish in a predominatly Islamic state), wow, talk about a shock to the Turkish people, no wonder they are fighting tooth and claw to make sure Ataturk stays in the closet, it makes so much sense.

Kanki, but assuming you finally admit that he is a flaming xxxish homosexual, assuming it is true, hypothetically, how would that make you feel? Be honest now.

1)give me a proof about him - being a xxxish
2)share real document real proof to accuse a homosexsuel leader
These are Armenian and Gaygreek slanders...(notice the underline)
I have given real document with my quote...

[Virgil]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

Only Armenian-made absurd video... reals are in my quote! Go on to play with yourself

Actually, it is a well known fact he was xxxish, the fearless leader admitted himself that he was a xxx (i.e. he had a "secret" xxxish ritualistic prayer and the region of Albania Attaturk is from was predominatly the center for the Crypto-xxxs of Albanian), but does it really bother that he was (a) xxxish and (b) a flaming homosexual? I will be honest, I am happy I can go to Armenia and call Bobby and his band of misfits homosexual, even though they are not "gay" in the traditional "gay" way, but can you go to Turkey and call Ataturk "gay"? In states we have the right and backing to disect "taboo" subjects like if George Washington was truly a cheap skate and if Thomas Jefferson had a black child with his female slaves.

[Virgil]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

Kanki, to be fair, I will admit that Ataturk was not a "bad leader", he was good for the Turkish people, again, notice the underline, he was only good for the Turkish people. But does it matter if he was flaming homosexual HELL YES! The "leader" that your entire national backbone is built upon turns out to be a gay and xxxish (xxxish in a predominatly Islamic state), wow, talk about a shock to the Turkish people, no wonder they are fighting tooth and claw to make sure Ataturk stays in the closet, it makes so much sense.

Kanki, but assuming you finally admit that he is a flaming xxxish homosexual, assuming it is true, hypothetically, how would that make you feel? Be honest now.

[Kanki]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mxYuZDyNHj4

Only Armenian-made absurd video... reals are in my quote! Go on to play with yourself

[Virgil]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

Some examples about his leadership

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mxYuZDyNHj4

[Kanki]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

"History has seen many great people. It has seen Alexander the Great's, Napoleon's, Washington's. However, in the twentieth century the record for greatness was broken by Atatürk, this Turkish son of a Turk."

L'IIIustration Newspaper, France

"I obtained information concerning Mustafa Kemal from someone who knows him very well. When talking with Foreign Minister Litvinov of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, he said that in his opinion, the most valuable and interesting statesman in all of Europe does not live in Europe today, but beyond the Bosphorus, he lives in Ankara, and that this was the President of the Turkish Republic, Gazi Mustafa Kemal Atatürk."

Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America

"Atatürk's death is not only a loss for the country, but for Europe is the greatest loss, he who saved Turkey in the war and who revived a new the Turkish nation after the war. The sincere tears shed after him by all classes of people is nothing other than an appropriate manifestation to this great hero and modern Turkey's Ata."

Winston Churchill, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

"Mustafa Kemal was not a socialist. But it can be perceived that he is a good organizer, with great understanding, progressive, with good thoughts and an intelligent leader. He is carrying out a war of independence against those plunderers. I am believing that he will break the pride of the imperialists and that he will beat the Sultan together with his friends. (1921 )"

Vladimir llyich Lenin, Leader of the Russian Revolution

"In connection with the permanent memorial facility for Kemal Atatürk, I take pride in presenting my congratulations to Turkey. Your great country that is advancing on the course that he demonstrated has obtained very significant successes. This ceremony that is being held to commemorate the memory of Atatürk, the architect of progress and Turkish unity, is a very appropriate respect to a person who became a source of inspiration to free peoples throughout the world."

Dwight D. Eisenhower, President of the United States of America

"The name of Atatürk reminds people of the historical successes of one of the great individuals of this century, the leadership that gave inspiration to the Turkish nation, farsightedness in the understanding of the modern world and courage and power as a military leader. It is without a doubt that another example can't be shown indicating greater successes than the birth of the Turkish Republic and ever since then Atatürk's and Turkey's broad and deep reforms undertaken as well as the confidence of a nation in itself."

John F. Kennedy, President of the United States of America

"Kemal Atatürk or Kemal Pasha by which name we knew him in those times, was my hero during my youth. I was very moved when I read about his great reforms. I met with great praise the general efforts made by Atatürk on the course of modernizing Turkey. His dynamism, undauntedness and unawareness of fatigue created a great effect on people. He was one of the builders of the modern age in the orient. I continue to be among his greatest admirers."

Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India

"We feel a great admiration for Atatürk in his efforts towards ensuring the modernization of Turkish society by separating religion and politics from each other and by carrying out the Turkish Language Reforms."

Hayato Ikeda, Prime Minister of Japan

"In our times, it is Atatürk who brought Turkey to its current status as a modern republic with his farsighted and courageous political, social and economic reforms. At the same time, it was also he that prepared the foundation of the modern economy that will ensure today Turkey's attaining the strength to be able to enter the European Economic Community."

Joseph Luns, Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Netherlands

"He was a military-statesman, one of the greatest leaders of our era. He ensured that Turkey got its rightful place among the most advanced nations. Also, he gave the feeling of support and self-confidence to the Turks, that forms the foundation stone of a nation's greatness. I take great pride in being one of Atatürk's loyal friends."

General Douglas MacArthur, Commander-in-Chief of the Far East Forces, U.S.A.

"The West and the East came face to face at the second class coastal town of Mudanya on a crooked road covered with dust on the hot Marmara coast. Despite the English flag ship "Iron-Duke's" ash-colored deathly turrets that transported the Allied generals for negotiations with Ismet Pasha, the Westerners had come here to beg for peace, not to ask for peace or to dictate the conditions... These negotiations demonstrate the end of Europe's dominance over Asia, because as everyone knows, Mustafa Kemal got rid of all the Greeks."

Ernest Hemingway, American Journalist and Novelist

"The world, by no means and at no time, has witnessed such an exciting event as the re-founding of Turkey with a Western point of view and belief."

Social Demokraten Newspaper, Sweden

"In no other country have women advanced this rapidly. It is truly an unique event in history for a nation to change to this degree."

Daily Telegraph Newspaper, England

"The Sakarya Battle, the Sakarya Victory became the strongest recollection when I was twenty.

At that time I said to myself, I wonder whether or not I can mobilize my country like this? Can I not instill in his spirit this delivering attack, this unreined passion?"

Habib ben Ali Bourguiba, President of Tunisia

"In 1918...Turkey was a defeated nation seemingly in irreparable collapse.

Today, twenty years later, we see a nation on the borders of Europe and Asia, economically and culturally prosperous, once again important internationally, and profiting from peaceful relations with all its neighbors."

Gyulaa Kornis, Speaker of the Hungarian Parliament

Some examples about his leadership

[Armenian]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

Ataturk is not alcoholic and most acceptable leader character in the World!

Aha! Notice how Kaki refutes the "alcoholic" allegation - as he remains curiously quite about the Jew assgiver part