No Rabiz Pleaze

[Kanki]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

Kanki, to be fair, I will admit that Ataturk was not a "bad leader", he was good for the Turkish people, again, notice the underline, he was only good for the Turkishpeople. But does it matter if he was flaming homosexual HELL YES! The "leader" that your entire national backbone is built upon turns out to be a gay and xxxish (xxxish in a predominatly Islamic state), wow, talk about a shock to the Turkish people, no wonder they are fighting tooth and claw to make sure Ataturk stays in the closet, it makes so much sense.

Kanki, but assuming you finally admit that he is a flaming xxxish homosexual, assuming it is true, hypothetically, how would that make you feel? Be honest now.

1)give me a proof about him - being a xxxish
2)share real document real proof to accuse a homosexsuel leader
These are Armenian and Gaygreek slanders...(notice the underline)
I have given real document with my quote...

[Virgil]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

1)give me a proof about him - being a xxxish
2)share real document real proof to accuse a homosexsuel leader
These are Armenian and Gaygreek slanders...(notice the underline)
I have given real document with my quote...

Really, you should have just been honest, you can call us "Gaymenian" (Really, does it really matter anymore?), but ok, assuming I bring you the proof and convince you of how your fearless leader was what he is accused of being, how would that make you feel? It is a simple question, I am not stating the he is or he is not, I just want to know how you hypothetically will feel if you find out he is indeed a flaming homosexual and xxxish? How can I put this in a more objective way? Just say how you would feel.

[Kanki]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

I am always honest...
Okey, I wait your real proofs...By the way, I understand photomontages..so be careful
Sources shouldn't be from Armenian or Greek

[Virgil]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

I am always honest...
Okey, I wait your real proofs...By the way, I understand photomontages..so be careful
Sources shouldn't be from Armenian or Greek

Dude, he was a flaming Homosexual, it is obvious he was a flaming homosexual and that was not question asked, but if you want proof then you should connect the dots:

(a) The "quote" by Ataturk's biographers, Irfan and Margaret Orga, wrote:

"He has never loved a woman. He was used to the camaraderie of the Mess, the craze for handsome young men, [and] fleeting contacts with prostitutes,... His body burned, for a woman or a boy ..."

(b) He was a very "private" indiivdual, he never had biological children and always adopted girls. He was married from 1923 to 1925 to Latife Ussaki. Latife divored due to irreconcilable differences that to this day are not cleary evident. And not suprising the answer resides in her diary that "incidently" has been banned for public investigation by the government. They restricted use by the public right after she died until 2006 and when 2006 rolled around, they extended the ban.

(c) It is also a well known fact that pederasty, literally 'boy-love', (Refers to an intimate or erotic relationship between an adolescent boy and an adult male outside his immediate family and has found expression from earliest times through a variety of customs and practices within different cultures) was rampent in the Ottoman Empire, here is a source:

In the Ottoman empire, same-sex relations between men and youths were often of a mercantile nature. The sex workers involved were either entertainers such as the köçeks or masseurs in the hammams known as tellak. Although zamparas (men drawn to women) outnumbered kulamparas (men drawn to boys) in society, Ottoman military culture (especially that of Janissary culture) had pederasty as a noteworthy aspect[citations needed]. Osman Agha of Temeşvar who fell captive to the Austrians in 1688 wrote in his memoirs that one night an Austrian boy approached him for sex, telling him "for I know all Turks are pederasts".[42]

At times soldiers from the Janissary regiments (named orta) skirmished for rights over a young and beautiful novice (civelek)[citations needed]. In 1770s, Âşık Sadık the poet wrote, in an address to the Sultan: Lût kavmi döğüşür, put kavmi xxxar. Askerin lûtîdir, bil Padişahım ("The people of Lot fight, the people of idolatry spoil. Know, my Sultan, that your soldiers are sodomites").[43] Studies of Ottoman criminal law, which is based on the Sharia, reveal that persistent sodomy with non-consenting boys was a serious offense and those convicted faced capital punishment.

It does not take a half witted individual to notice a clear cut chain of implications. Ataturk was raised in a military upbringing in which "pederasty" was a tradition. He lead a private life and never had biological children. His only wife divorces him due to unknown reasons, reasons, that to this day are being hidden from the historic community. The latter action of denying the public access to diary only strenghtens the hunch that Ataturk was a homosexual, at least, bare minimum, you must acknowledge that there must exists a reason why the diary has been banned. Are you brave enough to confront the facts? I don't know, maybe, but there only exists only two reason why it is banned (a) Ataturk was a homosexual or (b) his wife, Latifa, was a xxxxx or lesbian or something along those lines. And both facts brought to light will only bring down the legend that a entire Turkish national identity rests upon, so, the stakes are high, well only in the mind of nationalistic zealots like Turks, which is fine, but at least don't just censor individuals, if he is or is not homosexual the truth will be in the diary.

Regarding Ataturk's xxxish past:

The Donmè ("convert" in Turkish), was a Hebrew heresy whose followers converted [?] to Islam in the 18th century. They were most heavily concentrated in Thessaloniki. According to the Great Hellenic Encyclopedia [Megali Elliniki Enkiklopethia]: "It is generally accepted that the Donmè secretly continue to adhere to the Hebrew religion and don't allow their kind to intermarry with the Muslims."

The disproportionate power and influence (in light of their number) that the Donmè had on both the Ottoman Empire and on the Young Turk movement has been the subject of a great deal of commentary by many observers and researchers. The eminent British historian, R. Seton Watson, in his book, The Rise of Nationality in the Balkans. London, 1917 (H Gennisi tou Ethnikismou sta Valkania), wrote the following: "The real brains behind the [Itihàt] movement were xxxs or Islamic-xxxs. The wealthy Donmè and xxxs of Thessaloniki supported [the Young Turks] economically, and their fellow xxxish capitalists in Vienna and Berlin -- as well as in Budapest and possibly Paris and London -- supported them financially as well.

In the January 23rd, 1914, issue of the Czarist Police [Okrana] Ledger (Number 16609), directed to the Ministry of the Exterior in Saint Petersburg, we read: "A pan-Islamic convention of Itihàts and xxxs was held in the Nouri Osman lodge in Constantinople. It was attended by approximately 700 prominent Itihàts and xxxs, including "Minister" Talaàt Bey, Bentri Bey, Mbekri Bey, and (Donmè) Javit Bey. Among the many xxxs in attendance, two of the most prominent were the Head of the Security Service, Samouel Effendi, and the Vice-Administrator of the Police, Abraham Bey."

Essentially, there exists Crypto-xxxs in Turkey and Ataturk came from Salonica, one of the historic centers of Sephardic xxxry. Furthermore, in his own words or recorded own words from a xxxish author and witness:

Did Kinross suspect more than he was admitting? I would never have asked had I not recently come across a remarkable chapter while browsing in the out-of-print Hebrew autobiography of Itamar Ben-Avi, son of Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, the leading promoter of the revival of spoken Hebrew in late 19th-century Palestine. Ben-Avi, the first child to be raised in Hebrew since ancient times and later a Hebrew journalist and newspaper publisher, writes in this book of walking into the Kamenitz Hotel in Jerusalem one autumn night in 1911 and being asked by its proprietor: " 'Do you see that Turkish officer sitting there in the corner, the one* with the bottle of arrack?' "

" 'Yes.' "
" 'He's one of the most important officers in the Turkish army.' "
" 'What's his name?' "
" 'Mustafa Kemal.'"
" 'I'd like to meet him,' I said, because the minute I looked at him I was startled by his piercing green eyes."

Ben-Avi describes two meetings with Mustafa Kemal, who had not yet taken the name of Ataturk, 'Father of the Turks.' Both were conducted in French, were largely devoted to Ottoman politics, and were doused with large amounts of arrack. In the first of these, Kemal confided:
"I'm a descendant of Sabbetai Zevi - not indeed a xxx any more, but an ardent admirer of this prophet of yours. My opinion is that every xxx in this country would do well to join his camp."

During their second meeting, held 10 days later in the same hotel, Mustafa Kemal said at one point:
'I have at home a Hebrew Bible printed in Venice. It's rather old, and I remember my father bringing me to a Karaite teacher who taught me to read it. I can still remember a few words of it, such as --' "

And Ben-Avi continues:
"He paused for a moment, his eyes searching for something in space. Then he recalled:
" 'Shema Yisra'el, Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Ehad!'
" 'That's our most important prayer, Captain.'
" 'And my secret prayer too, cher monsieur,' he replied, refilling our glasses."
Although Itamar Ben-Avi could not have known it, Ataturk no doubt meant "secret prayer" quite literally.

Among the esoteric prayers of the Doenme, first made known to the scholarly world when a book of them reached the National Library in Jerusalem in 1935, is one containing the confession of faith:
"Sabbetai Zevi and none other is the true Messiah. Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one."
It was undoubtedly from this credo, rather than from the Bible, that Ataturk remembered the words of the Shema, which to the best of my knowledge he confessed knowing but once in his adult life: to a young Hebrew journalist whom he engaged in two tipsily animated conversations in Jerusalem nearly a decade before he took control of the Turkish army after its disastrous defeat in World War I, beat back the invading Greeks and founded a secular Turkish republic in which Islam was banished - once and for all, so he thought - to the mosques.

Ataturk would have had good reasons for concealing his Doenme origins. Not only were the Doenmes (who married only among themselves and numbered close to 15,000, largely concentrated in Salonika, on the eve of World War I) looked down on as heretics by both Muslims and xxxs, they had a reputation for sexual profligacy that could hardly have been flattering to their offspring. This license, which was theologically justified by the claim that it reflected the faithful's freedom from the biblical commandments under the new dispensation of Sabbetai Zevi, is described by Ezer Weizman's predecessor, Israel's second president, Yitzchak Ben-Zvi, in his book on lost xxxish communities, "The Exiled and the Redeemed":
'Saintly Offspring':

"Once a year [during the Doenmes' annual 'Sheep holiday'] the candles are put out in the course of a dinner which is attended by orgies and the ceremony of the exchange of wives. ... The rite is practiced on the night of Sabbetai Zevi's traditional bithday. ... It is believed that children born of such unions are regarded as saintly."

Although Ben-Zvi, writing in the 1950s, thought that "There is reason to believe that this ceremony has not been entirely abandoned and continues to this day," little is known about whether any of the Doenmes' traditional practices or social structures still survive in modern Turkey. The community abandoned Salonika along with the city's other Turkish residents during the Greco-Turkish war of 1920-21, and its descendants, many of whom are said to be wealthy businessmen and merchants in Istanbul, are generally thought to have assimilated totally into Turkish life.

After sending my fax to Batya Keinan, I phoned to check that she had received it. She had indeed, she said, and would see to it that the president was given it to read on his flight to Ankara. It is doubtful, however, whether Mr. Weizman will allude to it during his visit: The Turkish government, which for years has been fending off Muslim fundamentalist assaults on its legitimacy and on the secular reforms of Ataturk, has little reason to welcome the news that the father of the 'Father of the Turks' was a crypto-xxx who passed on his anti-Muslim sentiments to his son. Mustafa Kemal's secret is no doubt one that it would prefer to continue to be kept.

So, yes, there indeed existed a "Crypto-xxx" movement in Turkey and Ataturk, whether he considered himself xxxish or not, was part of it. So what did I prove today? I proved he could be (a) homosexual and (b) xxxish. Certainly, we can argue that there exists a strong "chain if implications" that leads one to this conclusion.

[Yedtarts]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

Is this a Rabiz?

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=RsHf9piJaDM

[Virgil]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

Is this a Rabiz?

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=RsHf9piJaDM

Dolamama, funny, cleaver little devil that guy is, but curious, why are Armenian men and women interested more in the development of their home as opposed to their people and country? Strange, it always puzzles me, I go to a Armenian bookstore and I see excess surplus items, but I occasionally drive to Home Depot and all I see is, wall to wall, Armenians. What is this obession with homes and home development? Disgusting, things own people in the United States.

[Kanki]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

Virgil...Don't show me wikipedia as a proof.It is free ansiklopedia and everyone can write there..so Wikipedia is not acceptable.

And By the way who is that "Hillel Halkin".

My mind is mixed, There is no Proof in Turkish history about Ataturk's being a muslim and no real words from him about to being muslim...I don't realy know his religions maybe a j e w i sh

But your proofs are not enough to mix my mind about his being homosexsuel..
I wait real documents real ones! .

[Azad]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

Kanki gourban the world knows that he was oglangi geutveren yahoudi donme and alcoholic to top it all.

[Azad]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

Skip the interview and listen half way ... the concert. He is good, I take it he is in Germany.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77talJBJJuw

[Azad]

Re: No Rabiz Pleaze

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEZHU-cbzzE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv8PTTFHi2E