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The Many Challenges of Jazz Improvisation

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  • #1

    The Many Challenges of Jazz Improvisation

    Ardenik,if you are as original playing natrual sounding *swing eighth notes*, as you are writing poems,then definitely you know how to imrovise jazz.
    I'm a monstrous mass of vile, foul & corrupted matter.
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  • #2
    Originally posted by sleuth
    Ardenik,if you are as original playing natrual sounding *swing eighth notes*, as you are writing poems,then definitely you know how to imrovise jazz.
    well considering i havent written any poems or lyrics at all in about the past 5 years, & considering the amount of time ive spent improvising jazz during the past 2 years, id say i could probably swing better than i could write poetry right now! hehe



    altho i still dont think i could do either one all that well...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ardenik
      well considering i havent written any poems or lyrics at all in about the past 5 years, & considering the amount of time ive spent improvising jazz during the past 2 years, id say i could probably swing better than i could write poetry right now! hehe



      altho i still dont think i could do either one all that well...
      Can you swing in fusion style??(straight eighths, or eighth notes that are only slightly swung)
      I'm a monstrous mass of vile, foul & corrupted matter.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by sleuth
        Can you swing in fusion style??(straight eighths, or eighth notes that are only slightly swung)
        how can i answer that....
        swing is a feel... its a dimension of music which exists predominantly in jazz & its sub-styles.
        music can be broken down into the combination of 2 things: sound & time. & each of these have a bunch of different dimensions to them, which are more or less prominent, depending on the style of music.

        dimensions of SOUND are: pitch (higher or lower), dynamics (louder or softer), tone (brighter or warmer).

        dimensions of TIME are: tempo (faster or slower), rhythm (longer or shorter), and swing (harder or straighter)

        when ure playing jazz or any style that is inspired by jazz, swing is a dimension of ur performance which is minutiously controlled by the experienced musician, just like dynamics, tone, rhythm & pitch.. thats why the best musician isnt necessarily the one who can play fastest & loudest & the most technically difficult things... a musician who is able to control all these dimensions of SOUND & TIME in a tasteful way is a much better musician than the one who plays fast & loud & hard stuff.

        im sorry i wasnt able to answer ur question directly, because swing is not something thats this much for such & such kind of jazz & that much for such & such other kind.... its really an infinitely variable dimension of one's musical performance.

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        • #5
          [QUOTE=ardeni

          when ure playing jazz or any style that is inspired by jazz, swing is a dimension of ur performance which is minutiously controlled by the experienced musician, just like dynamics, tone, rhythm & pitch.. thats why the best musician isnt necessarily the one who can play fastest & loudest & the most technically difficult things... a musician who is able to control all these dimensions of SOUND & TIME in a tasteful way is a much better musician than the one who plays fast & loud & hard stuff.

          [/QUOTE]
          Mannnn,i know what is swing ..probably my question was confusing.

          Swing is a feel ...but there is technique how to practice and use and play ,how to develop a feel for swing. Of course swing is not a universal constant.... Not all styles of jazz use swing in the same way. many fusion and modern styles use straight eighths or eighth notes that are only slightly swung.

          At some point while improvising in a given key, i try to play notes that are not in that key. ( so called playing outside. it sounds dissonant, or harsh (my ear is the ultimate judge).Is that connected with my feel for swing or lack of technique ?

          And how can i develop a feel for swing??

          And again my question do u play fusion???
          Last edited by sleuth; 06-08-2004, 09:52 AM.
          I'm a monstrous mass of vile, foul & corrupted matter.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by sleuth
            At some point while improvising in a given key, i try to play notes that are not in that key. ( so called playing outside. it sounds dissonant, or harsh (my ear is the ultimate judge).Is that connected with my feel for swing or luck of technique ?
            "Swinging," as ardenik pointed out, is a matter a feel which is a matter of rhythm, making it completely independant of musical keys. Your rhythm has nothing to do with what notes you play with what notes. Adding feel is done with dynamics.

            Originally posted by sleuth
            And how can i develop a feel for swing??
            1. Play along to music that has a swing feel. Try the albums "Kind of Blue" by Miles Davis or "Texas Flood" by Stevie Ray Vaughn. Good places to start.

            2. Play with musicians playing a swing feel.

            3. Get an instructor to coach you on it.

            4. Read books that discuss rhythm.
            Last edited by dusken; 06-08-2004, 09:57 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by dusken
              "
              4. Read books that discuss rhythm.
              Puck this ....

              It Don't Mean A Thing if it Ain't Got That Swing" *Duke Ellington*


              I can'ttttt imroviseeeeeee the end of story....
              I'm a monstrous mass of vile, foul & corrupted matter.

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by sleuth
                Puck this ....
                There is very good stuff out there that, as a drummer, I can say is quite important... especially when you may not have all of the resources (musicians) available to you at all times.

                Originally posted by sleuth
                It Don't Mean A Thing if it Ain't Got That Swing" *Duke Ellington*
                Too complicated.

                Originally posted by sleuth
                I can'ttttt imroviseeeeeee the end of story....
                Then I suggest you study theory more before you focus on things like feel.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by dusken


                  Then I suggest you study theory more before you focus on things like feel.
                  I focuse on theory way too much... before delve into the theory i need to develop a feel for swing. thats my problem.

                  i can never improvise jazz..its like **telling a story**...smootttttth ....ah.... It is not enough to merely play the "right" notes.
                  Last edited by sleuth; 06-08-2004, 10:33 AM.
                  I'm a monstrous mass of vile, foul & corrupted matter.

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                  • #10
                    The only way to improve at improvising is to be forced to improvise. What do you play? Piano?

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