Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

[crusader1492]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-T_Z...=1&sa=N&tab=wn

McCain (what an ass!) sounding more idiotic than Bush.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Blood on Saakashvili's hands, Georgia move fails to halt raids

source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7552908.stm

Georgia insists that all its forces are now outside South Ossetia

Russia has continued air raids deep inside Georgia, after it rejected Tbilisi's announcement that it had called a ceasefire and wanted talks.

Russian jets bombed targets near Georgia's capital Tbilisi, including the airport, reports said.

Earlier Georgia said its troops had pulled out of the breakaway region of South Ossetia and Russia was in control of its capital, Tskhinvali.

Thousands of civilians have fled - it is not clear how many have been killed.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told the BBC his forces had observed a ceasefire since 0500 on Sunday morning, but had still been bombed by Russian planes. He said his government had been trying "all day" to contact Russia to discuss a ceasefire.

Peace mission

Russian jets were still carrying out bombing raids late on Sunday. Witnesses said jets had hit Tbilisi International Airport, as well as a military airfield close to the Georgian capital.

A Georgian official said Russian planes had also bombed the western town of Zugdidi and Georgian-controlled territory inside Abkhazia. The claims could not be independently verified.

The attack which reportedly hit the airport came only a few hours before the scheduled arrival of French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb, on a peace mission.

Meanwhile, the United Nations Security Council began meeting for a fourth day on Sunday to discuss the conflict. It has so far failed to agree on the wording of a statement calling for a ceasefire.

Clashes in South Ossetia itself were reported to be less intense on Sunday, as Russian forces took control and Georgian troops drew back.

Local residents fleeing the area on Sunday morning told the BBC that Tskhinvali was relatively quiet.

Later, however, the BBC's Richard Galpin described a real sense of panic on Sunday night in the Georgian town of Gori, near the South Ossetia, amid fears that Russian troops were about to march on the town.

He had been warned by the interior ministry to leave Gori, only to find that the road to Tbilisi was crammed with cars full of fleeing civilians.

'Disproportionate force'

Georgia's announcement of its ceasefire came in a statement from the foreign ministry, stating that Georgia "today stopped firing in the South Ossetian conflict zone and is ready to begin talks with Russia on a ceasefire and cessation of hostilities".

It said a note had been passed to the Russian embassy in Georgia to that effect.

Mikhail Saakashvili claims Russia has not respected the ceasefire

But a Russian foreign ministry official was quoted by Interfax saying "our information does not confirm the Georgian statement".

"There are indications that exchanges of fire are continuing and the Georgian forces have not been fully withdrawn from the conflict zone," he said.

The United Nations refugee agency (UNHCR) called on the parties to the conflict to grant safe passage for thousands of civilians trying to escape the war zone.

The UNHCR estimates that between 10,000 and 20,000 people have been displaced within Georgia, including South Ossetia, while Russia has said that a further 30,000 people have fled north into the Russian province of North Ossetia.

"The conflict has caused civilian casualties and more are at risk," UN High Commissioner for Refugees Antonio Guterres said.

"It is essential that humanitarian agencies be able to reach the affected and the displaced."

Meanwhile tensions were rising in Georgia's other breakaway region, Abkhazia.

The leader of the separatist government there, Sergei Bagapsh, said he had ordered a military operation to clear Georgian forces out of Abkhazia's Kodori Gorge, and gave them a deadline to leave.

Georgia has accused Russia of landing 4,000 more troops in Abkhazia via the Black Sea. The separatists said Georgia had deployed a similar number of soldiers south of the Abkhaz border.

The US has described Russia's actions as "dangerous and disproportionate".

US Deputy National Security Adviser James Jeffrey said that if the Russian escalation continued, it would have a "significant" long-term impact on relations between the Moscow and Washington.

Nato Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said Russia had violated Georgia's territorial integrity in South Ossetia and condemned the "disproportionate use of force".

The Russian radio station Echo Moscow reported that two journalists, including a photographer for the Russian news agency Itar-Tass, were shot dead by separatists after entering South Ossetia.

[RSNATION]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

What's more is that the general public outside of the region will lose interest soon. For instance, Americans are much more interested in the Olympics, the NFL preseason, baseball and so forth. They are oblivious to the outside world.
They don't even know where Russia is on the map let alone Georgia or Ossetia.

Saakhasvili, you done screwed up son.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-T_Z...=1&sa=N&tab=wn

McCain (what an ass!) sounding more idiotic than Bush.

South Ossetia is a part of "sovereign" Georgia but Kosovo was not a part of "sovereign" Serbia? Why do I get the feeling that if he gets elected we'll be begging for Bush back?

[yerazhishda]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Saakhasvili, you done screwed up son.

I'm Armenian and even I want to see him executed - I don't know about the rest of you. He's a coward and a traitor and betrayed his own people just to pacify the West and advance his political career.

[RSNATION]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

http://www.belgraviadispatch.com/2008/08/georgia_on_my_mind.html

By: Gregory Djerejian

GEORGIA ON MY MIND

The commentary being churned out in the Western press regarding Georgia is rather pitiable in the main (most notably this dreary WaPo piffle, stinking of knee-jerk group-think as it does from beginning to end). A few quick points, in no particular order. First, let us disabuse ourselves from the notion that Mr. Saakashvili is some glorious democrat (the election he barely won in January included irregularities, and there continues to be endemic corruption in Tblisi). Second, let us recall that many south Ossetians and Abkhazians are not particularly keen to live under Tbilisi's yoke, indeed some prefer Russian influence to predominate there for the time being. Third, if there is any truth to Russian allegations that there are some 1,500 fatalities in the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali--and they were caused by a major initial over-reach by the Georgian military (we will need to wait for more details to emerge)--expect many more brutish bombardments like the Russians apparently have conducted in the Georgian town of Gori, alas. Fourth, some context: ever since the overly hasty recognition of Kosovo went live, Putin has been very keen to intimate what's good for the goose is good for the gander, having personally threatened Saakashvili that Russia would formally recognize as independent states Ossetia and Abkhazia. Unfair and inconvenient, at least to Georgian 'sovereignists' (or, to others, irrendentists)? Yes, to a fashion, as the perils of too breezy analogizing among these different situations is quite clear. Still, the Kosovo precedent was going to be used to Putin's purposes, of course, humiliating as the events in Pristina were to Moscow, and with the barely concealed breezy cheerleading from Brussels and DC adding insult to injury.

Which brings me to a fifth point, and perhaps a more fundamental causal factor contributing to this explosion of misfortune in Georgia, namely, that of stupidity, or at least, severe miscalculation. Saakashvili, an apparently quite idealistic 40 year-old former NY lawyer, seems to have erred too much in thinking that giddy summitry with Western big-wigs might pay dividends (or too his far too excited involvement in the Iraq adventure which, incidentally, looks to be coming to a quite precipitous end) but unfortunately, insufficiently appreciated the disastrous waning in U.S. power these past years, despite his constant hankering for NATO membership (which a resurgent Russia will never accept regardless of Kosovo or whatever else, best I can tell), and thus has fallen short with regard to better appreciating a variable which would have been more apropos, namely, a harsh dose of realpolitik. And this despite Putin having warned Saakashvili rather pointedly: "On April 21, Mr. Saakashvili called the Russian leader to demand that he reverse the decision [possible Russian recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia]. He reminded Mr. Putin that the West had taken Georgia’s side in the dispute. And Mr. Putin, according to several of Mr. Saakashvili’s associates, shot back with a suggestion about where they could put their statements. Mr. Saakashvili, prudent for once, shied from uttering the exact wording, but said that Mr. Putin had used “extremely offensive language,” and had repeated the expression several times." Permit me to be less prudent than Mr. Saakashvili, who appears perhaps to be a poor prioritizer of where to be prudent and where not. Mr. Putin told him that he could (and excuse the crudity) stick American and Western European assurances regarding the territorial disputes in question up his rear end, I suspect, and I'm afraid that's not a too inaccurate assessment, if a bit biting and brusque (save if McCain trumps Obama and decides to ride the NATO cavalry up from Kabul to Tbilisi a few months hence--perhaps on the back of some more WaPo interventionist rhapsodizing--devoid of the merest smidgen of appreciation for historical context and subtlety, leading to another toweringly idiotic 'Washington consensus' of some sort).

What's needed now, rather critically, is rather a large dose of humble pie by Mr. Saakashvili (let Solana visit him to hand-hold some, and perhaps then send our own Condi-the-Great too, as face-saver, if she's not too busy showcasing our incompetence elsewhere), with an understanding that the main objective is an immediate cease-fire with the goal of returning to the status quo ante, which is to say, de facto Russian control of the provinces in question. We could do far worse (indeed Putin may be minded to just have them go ahead and declare their independence under Russian control, or simply annex them), and bloviating about the death of the Rose Revolution in far-flung Abkhazia and Ossetia, while doubtless fun xxxxtail chit-chat among the grandees of our favorite editorial pages, well, Putin might have an idea or two where to put such talk, and it won't save any lives at this urgent juncture either. Put differently, let's stop our fanciful reverie from points removed (and where the ramifications don't include rampant lost of life, say) in favor of trying to dampen back a bloodbath that is looming today in the Caucasus, especially should Saakashvili delude himself some quasi-cavalry might be in the offing, and push back on the Russians even harder. For there is no cavalry coming, save if cavalry can be construed as 'we must respect Georgian sovereignty' soundbites that will blanket around clueless anchors striving mightily to pose intelligible questions on the cable news circuit that might be overheard at the Tbilisi Marriott.

Last, and somewhat tangential, interesting to note in passing (though highly unsurprising) that when we are are not speaking of a hiccup in financial regulatory issues in Moscow or such (where Medvedev was taking to flexing some muscle), it is Putin who leaves Beijing for the staging ground of the operation, not Medvedev. All the more reason for Saakashvili to be concerned...

NB: Larison is on top of this as well, just keep scrolling over there--but this post might be a good starting point--as it's particularly cogent (especially his contention that "Kissinger and Cohen are right", with which I mostly concur, and helpfully saves me the trouble too of having to write about yet another Kagan).

[RSNATION]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

I'm Armenian and even I want to see him executed - I don't know about the rest of you. He's a coward and a traitor and betrayed his own people just to pacify the West and advance his political career.

I agree. He has humiliated Georgia. Although the Georgians are angry at Russia and will be for a while, they are going to turn on him like never before.

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Russian news agencies report sunken Georgian ship

TBILISI, Georgia - Russian news agencies say the Defense Ministry is claiming to have sunk a Georgian missile boat that was trying to attack Russian navy ships in the Black Sea.

Russia's Defense Ministry refused to comment on the Sunday reports to The Associated Press and Georgian officials could not immediately be reached.

If confirmed, the incident could mark a serious escalation of the fighting between Russia and Georgia over the separatist Georgian province of South Ossetia.

"Georgian missile patrol boats today made two attempts to attack Russian military ships. The Russian ships opened fire in response and as a result, one of the Georgian ships carrying out the attack was sunk," the ITAR-Tass news agency quoted a ministry spokesman as saying.

More here http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/georgia_south_ossetia

[RSNATION]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

MORE GREAT NEWS. RUSSIANS ADVANCING ON GORI

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/world/europe/11georgia.html?bl&ex=1218513600&en=21280383fa5b8c72&ei=5087

[Azad]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

With the amount or armaments being sent to the front ... this is not a short term defense. Georgia will never be the same.