Protests continue after Ayatollah's warning: Protesters beaten, tear-gassed in street

[Eddo211]

Re: Protests continue after Ayatollah's warning: Protesters beaten, tear-gassed in st

......Source please

Hi meline.
I cannot name my own source but I did a web search for you and here is an old article on a Israeli news website.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3729203,00.html

Eddo, with all due respect, really, I beg to disagree

The Kurdish problem is not the right indicator of the relationship between Iran and Turkey. It is still an outstanding issue between them. So Mousavi does not gain any credit from that. Plus, a FM does not take decisions on his own, he needs the clearance of the president....

You are right, I am only speculating…………I apologize.

Cheers.

[meline]

Re: Protests continue after Ayatollah's warning: Protesters beaten, tear-gassed in st

Eddo, with all due respect, really, I beg to disagree

Quote:
Mousavi as a PM and at a time Foreign Minister told Turkey to go screw themselves every time they asked for help on their Kurdish problem. Not sure what he would do as a president.

The Kurdish problem is not the right indicator of the relationship between Iran and Turkey. It is still an outstanding issue between them. So Mousavi does not gain any credit from that. Plus, a FM does not take decisions on his own, he needs the clearance of the president.

Quote:
Is he suggesting that Iran is having secret meetings with the world powers on the fate of Armenia (Armenian issue) without an Armenian representatives there!!?

He is paid to create fear in Armenians to support Iran’s president

This was never mentioned in the article

Quote:
Did you know the 25000 J-ews in Iran voted for Ahmadinejad (enemy of Israel)?

Source please

[KanadaHye]

Re: Protests continue after Ayatollah's warning: Protesters beaten, tear-gassed in st

I do not agree with this his point of view. Armenia and Iran go a long way back and no matter who is in charge the relationship will not change much at all. Also Armenia is a gateway for the expansion in transport of Iranian natural gas to Europe.

I know one thing for sure Federate, Mousavi as a PM and at a time Foreign Minister told Turkey to go screw themselves every time they asked for help on their Kurdish problem. Not sure what he would do as a president.

I don't think Iran would last 3 seconds if they were to provide natural gas to Europe. Russia's Gazprom wouldn't stand for it. It would be the equivalent of trying to market your own lipstick.... L'Oreal would have you killed in minutes.

What the xxxx is this!!

Is he suggesting that Iran is having secret meetings with the world powers on the fate of Armenia (Armenian issue) without an Armenian representatives there!!?

He is paid to create fear in Armenians to support Iran’s president. hahaha

Did you know the 25000 J-ews in Iran voted for Ahmadinejad (enemy of Israel)?

Armenian church in Iran supports the same………..there was only one Armenian arrested and he has been released and the church brushed off the incident.

It all really is confusing since Israel and the US have the largest population of Iranian J3ws who left Iran in the 20th century (many during the Islamic Revolution in Iran)

[Eddo211]

Re: Protests continue after Ayatollah's warning: Protesters beaten, tear-gassed in st

Here's what our neighbours to the East make of the situation in regards to Armenia.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Political scientist: If Mahmud Agmadinejad quits powers, Armenia will face hard times
24 June 2009 [16:43] - Today.Az
If Mahmud Agmadinejad quits powers, Armenia will face hard times, said famous political scientist Tofik Abbasov.

According to him, weakening of conservative powers represented by Mahmud Ahmadinejad creates the biggest concern in Armenia.

"If Ahmadinejad quits powers, it might lead to review of bilateral ties between Iran and Armenia. Therefore, Armenia hopes that Ahmadinejad will preserve his positions. Moreover, this is a guarantee that existing bilateral relations will at least not weaken", said he.....

I do not agree with this his point of view. Armenia and Iran go a long way back and no matter who is in charge the relationship will not change much at all. Also Armenia is a gateway for the expansion in transport of Iranian natural gas to Europe.

I know one thing for sure Federate, Mousavi as a PM and at a time Foreign Minister told Turkey to go screw themselves every time they asked for help on their Kurdish problem. Not sure what he would do as a president.

.............The issue is that Iran has secret contacts with European and US structures on Armenian issue for the limitless functioning of a vitally important corridor for Armenia....

What the xxxx is this!!

Is he suggesting that Iran is having secret meetings with the world powers on the fate of Armenia (Armenian issue) without an Armenian representatives there!!?

He is paid to create fear in Armenians to support Iran’s president. hahaha

Did you know the 25000 J-ews in Iran voted for Ahmadinejad (enemy of Israel)?

Armenian church in Iran supports the same………..there was only one Armenian arrested and he has been released and the church brushed off the incident.

[meline]

Re: Protests continue after Ayatollah's warning: Protesters beaten, tear-gassed in st

Here's what our neighbours to the East make of the situation in regards to Armenia.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Political scientist: If Mahmud Agmadinejad quits powers, Armenia will face hard times
24 June 2009 [16:43] - Today.Az
If Mahmud Agmadinejad quits powers, Armenia will face hard times, said famous political scientist Tofik Abbasov.

According to him, weakening of conservative powers represented by Mahmud Ahmadinejad creates the biggest concern in Armenia.

"If Ahmadinejad quits powers, it might lead to review of bilateral ties between Iran and Armenia. Therefore, Armenia hopes that Ahmadinejad will preserve his positions. Moreover, this is a guarantee that existing bilateral relations will at least not weaken", said he.

As for the change in position of official Tehran on Nagorno Karabakh conflict, in case the powers change, the political scientist said the following:

"The thing is not that this is a neighbor state and Iran places its investments into it and plans to raise the share of its economic presence. The issue is that Iran has secret contacts with European and US structures on Armenian issue for the limitless functioning of a vitally important corridor for Armenia. US and European structures are interested in the activeness of the Iranian-Armenian vector.

On Nagorno Karabakh conflict Iran urges both parties to settle the problem by way of peaceful talks. But Iran continues to plan idea of its mediation in the conflict resolution. Therefore, Iran is constantly watching the peacekeeping process in the OSCE MG framework. In this sense I do not think any cardinal review of position is possible in Iran", concluded the political scientist.

/Day.Az/

URL: http://www.today.az/news/politics/53364.html

Fed, thanks for putting it clearly. After all it's the implications for Armenia that we Diasporans should be concerned about. Otherwise we might just as well argue about democracy and freedom of speech in the UK, the US, France, Russia, Zimbabwe and you name it! Because if it wasn't Iran but any other country, where 2 parties strive for power, there wouldn't have been so much fuss about it. Much of it is the media red herring that deviates public attention from what is really a hot topic. Might sound cynical, but then just check modern history (Chili is the perfect example of the CIA staged coup d'etat).

[KanadaHye]

Re: Protests continue after Ayatollah's warning: Protesters beaten, tear-gassed in st

Here are the defining events between the West and Iran since 1979 shown in a timeline.

A look at Iran since the Islamic Revolution

-Iran has been an Islamic republic since 1979

-In the past 30 years it has been at odds with the West and some of its neighbors

Click through the timeline below to see major incidents from the past 3 decades:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/...ory/index.html

[Federate]

Re: Protests continue after Ayatollah's warning: Protesters beaten, tear-gassed in st

Here's what our neighbours to the East make of the situation in regards to Armenia.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Political scientist: If Mahmud Agmadinejad quits powers, Armenia will face hard times
24 June 2009 [16:43] - Today.Az
If Mahmud Agmadinejad quits powers, Armenia will face hard times, said famous political scientist Tofik Abbasov.

According to him, weakening of conservative powers represented by Mahmud Ahmadinejad creates the biggest concern in Armenia.

"If Ahmadinejad quits powers, it might lead to review of bilateral ties between Iran and Armenia. Therefore, Armenia hopes that Ahmadinejad will preserve his positions. Moreover, this is a guarantee that existing bilateral relations will at least not weaken", said he.

As for the change in position of official Tehran on Nagorno Karabakh conflict, in case the powers change, the political scientist said the following:

"The thing is not that this is a neighbor state and Iran places its investments into it and plans to raise the share of its economic presence. The issue is that Iran has secret contacts with European and US structures on Armenian issue for the limitless functioning of a vitally important corridor for Armenia. US and European structures are interested in the activeness of the Iranian-Armenian vector.

On Nagorno Karabakh conflict Iran urges both parties to settle the problem by way of peaceful talks. But Iran continues to plan idea of its mediation in the conflict resolution. Therefore, Iran is constantly watching the peacekeeping process in the OSCE MG framework. In this sense I do not think any cardinal review of position is possible in Iran", concluded the political scientist.

/Day.Az/

URL: http://www.today.az/news/politics/53364.html

[Lucin]

Re: Protests continue after Ayatollah's warning: Protesters beaten, tear-gassed in st

You're not being consistent. I said I support (agree with) those who are demanding that their rights be respected.
You said do we think that we, as persons living in the US, should have as much right and voice as someone living in Iran. Voice or right to what end? And by asking if we should have as much voice is asking whether we think we should be speaking about it and voicing an opinion, is it not?

And you said that we shouldn't decide their fate. I asked before and you didn't answer... How would voicing our opinions decide their fate?

You say here as a reply to something else say (see quoted part above) that we cannot impact what's going on. If this is the case why would you tell us that we shouldn't decide their fate? By saying here that we support those who are protesting their perceived injustice does not decide their fate. Isn't it a moot point if we can't? Besides, I'm personally not trying to nor would I want to.

Do I think the US or Iranian diaspora should decide these things? NO. If my view on that was unclear from what I had said then you should have asked for clarification instead of implying that I have no right to speak about the subject either.

Now if you meant this (you living in America) for Eddo specifically (and you did quote him) then you should have been more specific and asked whether those living outside of Iran should be VOTING. You criticized me for making a categorical statement and then you did the very same thing. It was ambiguous enough, in my view, that it's not absurd for me or anyone else to have interpreted this as I did.

So, if that's what you meant, then I'm in agreement with you. I don't think that those not living in Iran should be voting and deciding who and what policies will govern those who are living there.

If this is a simple misunderstanding it could have been cleared up a couple exchanges ago by clarifying that you meant right and voice to VOTE. There's no need for argument or animosity.

I did NOT say voicing your opinion would mean deciding their fate. You should have read more carefully what Eddo had implied previously in his post. Obviously my original comment was a response to his message (as you noticed) in which he said; "This is not your normal demonstrations; we want a revolution and want these monkeys out of power." This is where I disagreed and said we should allow the majority of the Iranian people decide their fate, etc. And I have already explained how it's unjust and futile.

By the way, I do not necessarily disagree with some of Eddo's underlying message (especially regarding changes on a social level) provided that it happens with the proper methods and wisely but a revolution at this stage will create major hazard and will devastate the entire Iranian nation.

And Language is misunderstanding, hence the arguments but I don't see why you talk about "animosity" in here? It's quite confusing.

I heard it from an Azari ironically.

Nah, if he had a "thick accent", Ahamadinejad's supporters wouldn't lose a chance to make fun of it, lol. It suffices to watch his televised debates to see how he speaks Persian.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Protests continue after Ayatollah's warning: Protesters beaten, tear-gassed in st

You guys are going off the deep end. No one is asking for overthrowing the government. Even the Iranian officials have admitted irregularities in the voting process with certain districts casting more votes than eligible voters.

This is a message to Mr. Ahamdinejar:
If truly you have won the election fair and square and that you have truly brought prosperity, security and wealth to Iran, then please kindly, explain why is there a mass protests, the need to bring out your paramilitary (riot police, basji etc) to keep the protesters in check, the need to exert violence, the brutality, the cruelty, the need to shut down all the telecommunication lines, text message, online social media, curbing of international press coverage, banning media journalists from going down to the streets to report on the mass protests but most importantly, why is there such a mass protest in the first place? Why is there even such a strong out cry from the rest of the world? How do you explain the high unemployment and inflation rate, and the inequality treatment of women in Iran? I think this is a no brainer for the rest of the world, but we would love to hear from you!


If the regime is so confident in the results then it could simply try the re-election. Why it is so afraid and killing the innocent peaceful protester brutally? And also those in charge were definitely amazing in counting 40 million ballots in 5 hours during the midnight, and announcing the results in the state radio at 6 AM I should mentioned that at the night of election at 8 pm while people were still busy voting at the polling stations Iran official news site reported Ahmadinajad’s winning!!! Again at the same night at 11 pm they published the same news!!! And the day after election the fake president was congratulated by the supreme leader before guardian council admit the results. Now they are theatrically try to fool the people by pretending that they are following the complaint legally. The problem is that the plaintiff complaints’ are brought to a jury who is guilty itself.

You judge
Iran government and unfortunately so many naďve people believe that the so called “dust and tumbleweed” protesters belong to urban areas and educated population who are quite capable of communicating via the modern media such as internet, while the other so called majority of “63%” who had won the case are from rural areas, uneducated and so poor and incapable of presenting themselves as they should. First, according to Tehran mayor, the estimated number of “dust and tumbleweed” protesters on June 15 was about 3 million. Second, 3/4 of Iran population is living in urban areas not in rural ones. Third, any healthy mind would accept that the educated population can better decide for their country than the uneducated ones but this government is trying to get rid of educated ones by killing and imprisoning them, (Basiji’s attack to Tehran University and its dormitory). Finally, if the government is right, then they should be proud for creating such a huge poor population. Do you think that those who kill a young girl in her prime on the street have any respect for the view of others?

Eddo, nobody here is claiming Iran is paradise. However, I am aware that the reason it governs the way it does is due to outside influences. The difference (as I see it) is that Iran doesn't have the media influence in the west to expose the dirty laundry of western governments where the western media is constantly writing propaganda stories on Iran. You can't play good cop, bad cop when both are robbers.

[Eddo211]

Re: Protests continue after Ayatollah's warning: Protesters beaten, tear-gassed in st

You guys are going off the deep end. No one is asking for overthrowing the government. Even the Iranian officials have admitted irregularities in the voting process with certain districts casting more votes than eligible voters.

This is a message to Mr. Ahamdinejar:
If truly you have won the election fair and square and that you have truly brought prosperity, security and wealth to Iran, then please kindly, explain why is there a mass protests, the need to bring out your paramilitary (riot police, basji etc) to keep the protesters in check, the need to exert violence, the brutality, the cruelty, the need to shut down all the telecommunication lines, text message, online social media, curbing of international press coverage, banning media journalists from going down to the streets to report on the mass protests but most importantly, why is there such a mass protest in the first place? Why is there even such a strong out cry from the rest of the world? How do you explain the high unemployment and inflation rate, and the inequality treatment of women in Iran? I think this is a no brainer for the rest of the world, but we would love to hear from you!


If the regime is so confident in the results then it could simply try the re-election. Why it is so afraid and killing the innocent peaceful protester brutally? And also those in charge were definitely amazing in counting 40 million ballots in 5 hours during the midnight, and announcing the results in the state radio at 6 AM I should mentioned that at the night of election at 8 pm while people were still busy voting at the polling stations Iran official news site reported Ahmadinajad’s winning!!! Again at the same night at 11 pm they published the same news!!! And the day after election the fake president was congratulated by the supreme leader before guardian council admit the results. Now they are theatrically try to fool the people by pretending that they are following the complaint legally. The problem is that the plaintiff complaints’ are brought to a jury who is guilty itself.

You judge
Iran government and unfortunately so many naďve people believe that the so called “dust and tumbleweed” protesters belong to urban areas and educated population who are quite capable of communicating via the modern media such as internet, while the other so called majority of “63%” who had won the case are from rural areas, uneducated and so poor and incapable of presenting themselves as they should. First, according to Tehran mayor, the estimated number of “dust and tumbleweed” protesters on June 15 was about 3 million. Second, 3/4 of Iran population is living in urban areas not in rural ones. Third, any healthy mind would accept that the educated population can better decide for their country than the uneducated ones but this government is trying to get rid of educated ones by killing and imprisoning them, (Basiji’s attack to Tehran University and its dormitory). Finally, if the government is right, then they should be proud for creating such a huge poor population. Do you think that those who kill a young girl in her prime on the street have any respect for the view of others?