Turkey rejects Israel Nato exercise

[KanadaHye]

Re: Turkey rejects Israel Nato exercise

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Artsoonk chem tapper

[londontsi]

Re: Turkey rejects Israel Nato exercise

Shune shounin mise togh oude

[KanadaHye]

Re: Turkey rejects Israel Nato exercise

Opinion: It's getting chilly between Turkey and Israel



Turkish protesters shout slogans and burn Israel's national flags during a protest against Israel to show solidarity with defenders of Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa mosque in central Istanbul


As Turkey gets friendlier with Syria and Iraq, relations with Israel take a back seat.

BOSTON — A strategic fault line is opening up in the Middle East with balance of power ramifications for the region. It is the growing coolness between two previously close allies: Turkey and Israel.

Last week “Anatolian Eagle,” a planned NATO exercise on Turkish soil was canceled when Turkey withdrew an invitation to Israel to participate. The United States and Italy promptly withdrew their participation, making the exercise pointless. Turkey said the reason was its opposition to Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza.

Israel and Turkey have a long history of military cooperation, and a joint naval exercise did take place as recently as last summer. Israeli airplanes routinely train over Turkey’s vast Anatolian airspace — Israel’s own space being so limited.

On the cultural front, Israel has made the strongest possible protests over a Turkish TV drama called “Separation.” The show depicts what Israelis claim are Israeli soldiers gunning down Palestinian children. Israeli foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, said that the TV series “would not be appropriate in an enemy country and certainly not in a state which maintains diplomatic relations with Israel.” The Turks responded by saying that theirs was not a country based on censorship.

Israel has long had a strategic policy of trying to woo a non-Arab ally in the region in order to outflank the Arab powers still hostile towards Israel. Until 1979 that ally was Iran under the Shah. The Israelis had an embassy in Tehran, masquerading as a trade mission, and it was possible to fly directly between Tehran and Tel Aviv on El Al, the Israeli national airline. The Khomeini revolution paid lip service to that, and today Iranians mouth anti-Israeli sentiments that would make an Arab blush.

Turkey became the new Iran in Israeli strategic thinking.

In Turkish eyes, when there were bad relations between Turkey and many of its neighbors — Iraq, Iran and Syria — it looked like a good bet to have Israel watching Turkey’s back.

Today, Turkey has better relations with Syria and Iraq than in the past and, according to some, Turkey doesn’t need Israel as much as in the past.

Undoubtedly, the relationship with Israel came at a political cost after the Gaza war, which was very unpopular with the Turkish public.

The outrage in the Muslim world, not just among Arabs, over the damage done in Gaza during the brief, winter war of 2008-2009 is little appreciated in the United States. Almost as irksome is the continuing Israeli blockade of Gaza, which the United States still supports even though Barack Obama promised a new outreach to the Muslim world.

This was not helped by the U.N. report, written by the respected South African judge, Richard Goldstone, charging both Hamas and Israel of war crimes in the Gaza conflict — a report that the United States does not support.

Some think the cooling of Turkey towards the relationship has to do with the moderately Islamic cast of Turkey’s ruling Justice and Development Party. Other’s think it has a highly personal element, beginning when Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan walked off the stage at the World Economic Forum in Davos last January in a tiff with Israeli President Shimon Peres.

I happened to be in the room during that startling bit of political theatre. Peres, usually so calm and collected, worked himself up into a rage over criticism of Israel’s Gaza war, and began wagging his finger in Erdogan’s face. It was an “et tu Brute” moment, in my view, expressing Peres’ disappointment that Erdogan, a close ally, would join in the criticism being leveled at Israel. Erdogan, who had just been explaining how he had helped Israel and Syria get closer together, was also disappointed that Peres would show such disrespect.

The breech is probably worse for Israel than it is for Turkey, for Israel is becoming more isolated and Turkey less. The timing is especially bad for those in Israel who would like to lessen Israel’s dependency on the United States. And since Benjamin Netanyahu came to power, Turkey’s efforts on behalf of Israel with Syria are on the back burner with the heat turned down.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/w...tolia?page=0,1

[KanadaHye]

Re: Turkey rejects Israel Nato exercise

Israel joins US for defence drill

Israel and the US are due to begin a two-week military defence exercise, thought to be the largest of its kind in Israel's history.

The exercise will focus on providing a joint defence against a simulated co-ordinated missile attack on Israel.

Up to 2,000 joint military personnel are believed to be taking part, along with at least 15 American ships.

The Israeli army said the exercise was not a "response to any world events" but had been planned for a while.

It is thought that a highly sophisticated new American radar, based in the Israeli desert, will be central to the exercise.

Two-fold significance

The simulation will involve elements such as barrage of missiles fired on Israel from all points south, east and north.

The BBC's Middle East correspondent Tim Franks said many observers inside Israel believed the exercise carried a two-fold significance.

This included sending a message of deterrence to any would-be attackers of Israel - whether they were in Gaza, Lebanon, Syria or Iran.

It was also possibly an attempt to reassure Israel's people that the US took the country's security seriously - especially at a time when the US has expressed increasing concern about Iran's nuclear programme, although Tehran insists it is purely peaceful.

Analysts say use the manoeuvres could also serve to make Israel feel more secure, and therefore encourage a return to Israeli-Palestinian negotiations.

Last week, Turkey, one of the few Muslim countries with whom Israel has had good contacts, cancelled a joint air force exercise with Israel.

Israel, Turkey and the US countries took part in a joint exercise in the Mediterranean Sea, off Haifa last year.

Tim Franks said Turkish-Israeli relations have become strained this year, since Turkey heavily criticised Israel's war in Gaza.

The exercise, which is entitled Juniper Cobra, is due to finish on 5 November.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8317919.stm

[Armanen]

Re: Turkey rejects Israel Nato exercise

Why is questioning ANY Isreali action automatically place Turkey within the "Iranian International Constellation?" Why is Iran even mentioned? Turkey's has its own history and brand of Islamism that is in direct competition with Iran's

This extremist dichotomous view is exactly why I am not upset at Turkey snubbing Israel. What is upsetting is the rampant anti-semitism in Turkey (and on this message board). People should be able criticize Israel without being deemed anti-semitic.

People who suffer a genocide shouldn't help deny the genocide of another people. This is exactly what many jooish organizations do in the united states, with the approval of israel of course.

[egeli]

Re: Turkey rejects Israel Nato exercise

Israel's Tourism Plunge to Turkey Threatens to be Long-Term

Published: 10/18/09, 3:21 PM / Last Update: 10/18/09, 7:14 PM

by Hillel Fendel

(IsraelNN.com) Turkey’s switch to the Iranian, anti-Israeli side of the international constellation has already begun to cost it in terms of Israeli tourism - and the situation will intensify, tourism experts say.

Despite its small size, Israel sent more tourists to Turkey than all but nine other countries in the world in 2008. German visitors ranked first, comprising 20% of all tourists to Turkey, while Israel was 10th with 2.5% of all those who visited Turkey. The year 2008 was a record year, with well over 500,000 Israelis visiting the country.

Long term punishment

Tourism to Turkey took a brief nosedive at the beginning of this year, after Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan repeatedly criticized Israel and even suggested that it be removed from the United Nations because of its anti-terrorist Cast Lead offensive in Gaza. However, Israelis’ “punishment” of Turkey this time is expected to last longer and hit harder.

“I estimate that the Israeli boycott on Turkey this time will actually work,” tourism expert Yossi Barel of the College for Administration told Army Radio on Sunday. “Feeling against Turkey is much stronger than last time, and we will be seeing a significant drop in flights for a very long time, and the Turks will have to work very hard to get us back.”

Danny Simmet, Vice President of the Israel-Turkey Relations Council, agrees: “The picture is blacker than black,” he said.

A host of companies have already canceled their workplace junkets to Turkey over the past few days, tourism operators report.

Poll results

The Globes site reports that its internet poll on the topic produced unambiguous results. Out of 4,213 respondents, 84% said they would “absolutely not” return to Turkey, while 5% said they “certainly would” return. 11% said they’re not sure yet.

Israelis had several reasons to be upset at Turkey over the past week: The cancellation of the air exercise with Israel, the announcement of a replacement exercise with Syria and the broadcasting of a TV series depicting IDF soldiers as child-killers and the like.

Link

Why is questioning ANY Isreali action automatically place Turkey within the "Iranian International Constellation?" Why is Iran even mentioned? Turkey's has its own history and brand of Islamism that is in direct competition with Iran's

This extremist dichotomous view is exactly why I am not upset at Turkey snubbing Israel. What is upsetting is the rampant anti-semitism in Turkey (and on this message board). People should be able criticize Israel without being deemed anti-semitic.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey rejects Israel Nato exercise

Israel's Tourism Plunge to Turkey Threatens to be Long-Term

Published: 10/18/09, 3:21 PM / Last Update: 10/18/09, 7:14 PM

by Hillel Fendel

(IsraelNN.com) Turkey’s switch to the Iranian, anti-Israeli side of the international constellation has already begun to cost it in terms of Israeli tourism - and the situation will intensify, tourism experts say.

Despite its small size, Israel sent more tourists to Turkey than all but nine other countries in the world in 2008. German visitors ranked first, comprising 20% of all tourists to Turkey, while Israel was 10th with 2.5% of all those who visited Turkey. The year 2008 was a record year, with well over 500,000 Israelis visiting the country.

Long term punishment

Tourism to Turkey took a brief nosedive at the beginning of this year, after Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan repeatedly criticized Israel and even suggested that it be removed from the United Nations because of its anti-terrorist Cast Lead offensive in Gaza. However, Israelis’ “punishment” of Turkey this time is expected to last longer and hit harder.

“I estimate that the Israeli boycott on Turkey this time will actually work,” tourism expert Yossi Barel of the College for Administration told Army Radio on Sunday. “Feeling against Turkey is much stronger than last time, and we will be seeing a significant drop in flights for a very long time, and the Turks will have to work very hard to get us back.”

Danny Simmet, Vice President of the Israel-Turkey Relations Council, agrees: “The picture is blacker than black,” he said.

A host of companies have already canceled their workplace junkets to Turkey over the past few days, tourism operators report.

Poll results

The Globes site reports that its internet poll on the topic produced unambiguous results. Out of 4,213 respondents, 84% said they would “absolutely not” return to Turkey, while 5% said they “certainly would” return. 11% said they’re not sure yet.

Israelis had several reasons to be upset at Turkey over the past week: The cancellation of the air exercise with Israel, the announcement of a replacement exercise with Syria and the broadcasting of a TV series depicting IDF soldiers as child-killers and the like.

Link

[Eddo211]

Re: Turkey rejects Israel Nato exercise

.....Ahmet Davutoglu is a neo-Ottomanist, he wants Turkey to be a regional and global power. Apparently the Turkish Military is now complying with this vision....

Yes, and the personnel who are against AKP become instant true followers after I tell them the real intentions in these protocols……I am not that familiar with Turkish politics but your post makes sense.

Here is more.


Turkish army chief visits Swat

Thursday, October 15, 2009
By our correspondent

MINGORA: Turkish Armed Forces Commander General Ilkar Basbug on Wednesday appreciated the sacrifices of the people and Pakistan armed forces for restoration of peace in Swat.

“We are happy that peace finally returns to the scenic valley,” the Turkish general, the first-ever head of foreign forces visiting Swat, told a function at a school. The children presented tableau and sang special songs about Pak-Turkish friendship, which were highly appreciated by the audience.

Meanwhile, the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) said the Turkish commander appreciated high morale and courage of the Pak Army soldiers and officers, who rendered sacrifices for bringing peace and stability to the area during the operation Rah-e-Rast.

Earlier, General Basbug, along with his delegation, visited the Corps Headquarters, Peshawar, and called on Corps Commander Lieutenant General Masood Aslam. The visiting dignitaries remained with the corps commander for some time.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=203318

[Army]

Re: Turkey rejects Israel Nato exercise

I would hardly call it "Islamic Fundamentalism". Notice that Turkey snubbed Israel right after signing the Turkish-Armenia protocols. This is not coincidence, the AKP run foreign ministry could have snubbed Israel anytime since the Davos incident. The AKP strengthened their ties with the Obama administration before reprimanding Israel. They choose this moment to show the world the that it is possible to be pro-West without condoning Israel's actions in Gaza. If the AKP can pull this off, Turkey will hold a unique and powerful position in the Muslim world.

Ahmet Davutoglu is a neo-Ottomanist, he wants Turkey to be a regional and global power. Apparently the Turkish Military is now complying with this vision. The real question: Is there a bite to the bark? In my opinion, the AKP is being highly arrogant, they are exaggerating Turkey's prominence in the world.

BTW... from a global perspective, i am very pleased of Turkey's warning to Israel. It reduces the chances of Israel bombing Iran and igniting world war III.

This is exactly what I was going to write.. Definitely Turkey would never leave US's side just to be 'neutral'. And obiviously Ankara wont side with Russia or China against Washington. So, we could say, without a coup or a mad US President (another Bush) Turkey would stay as an US-West ally.

However, I think the latest crises with Israel are not that serious and probably there lays some specific issues behind (such as the drones). Israel needs Turkey with her in the region. No other population in that area has good relationships with J'ews such as Turks have. Majority of Turkish society may be against Israel's actions, however -as I've heard several times from several journalists- Turkey is one of the most 'safest' places to live for a J'ew. Indeed, I believe, Turks can distinguish Israel and J'ews. Anyway, there might be radicals of course.

That won't happen, because Turkey's idiot leaders opened their big mouth about China, and it won't forgive them. China gave Turkey a scathing attack for that (and put out the idea China might recognise the Armenian Genocide), and I doubt the scars have healed.

As a state policy, China does not support seperalists or rebellions. Thats why Turkey's reaction against China was aggressive yet very limited. China and Turkey have a non-written deal; they support each others' unity.

Turkey has some choices to make... either lean west and try to join the EU... lean east and join the upcoming powers or stay center and recreate the old empire. If it wasn't for the Sunni/Shia divide, Israel wouldn't stand a chance in the middle east.

Turkey is the only 'independent' ally of Israel in the region. Other Arabic 'allies' are just American satellites, imitation oil states with American-controlled ruling families. Israel can never trust them and needs Ankara.

However its unlikely that Turkey would lean east. It is impossible to try to be democratic and position herself against West at the same time for Turkey.

I wonder if these drones are to be used on the PKK..... hmmmm.

Drones are very important for new war era. Russia's lack of drone tech -I think they have however they did not give enough importance- caused her a lot in the war against Georgia. Georgia has a few drones -bought from Israel- and they played a great role.

After that war, Turkey decided to buy those drones -as I know-. Also, Ankara is trying to produce her own drones.

[Haykakan]

Re: Turkey rejects Israel Nato exercise

The neo ottomanist tendancies are bad for the region. I hope the rift between turckey and isreal becomes greater they really do deserve each other.