Bombing at Domodedovo Airport

[Odar]

Re: Bombing at Domodedovo Airport

Basayev is not all the Chechens. They had a legitimate right to - independence? self-government?, like any other people. Unfortunately, most of their leaders were little more than chief brigands, and from the start Russia has dealt with the whole issue in the worst way ever, bringing more water to the fundamentalist mill and exploiting the terrorist attacks for political purposes, then installing a vicious proxy like Ramzan Khadyrov so as to say "And now settle it among yourselves".

Terrorist attacks are the best way to destroy any residual support the Chechens might still have - as with the Palestinians. But I don't think they care anymore, if they ever did.

[retro]

Re: Bombing at Domodedovo Airport

No use going after cavemen. They need to cut their funding from the Islamic fundamentalists in Saudi Arabia.

Russia needs to invest far more in the North Caucasia region and put into place far stricter travel restrictions upon Chechen/Ingush movements.

Holding the Chechens Islamist clandestine state sponsors to account is difficult and what Russia mustn't do is react by striking out and allow it's enemies to dictate events. But rather Russia should use it's poltical influence to foster alliances.

The Saudis are keen to build their little terrorist indoctrination centres all over mother Russia and turn the Russians Turkic population into foaming at the mouth fantics. However the Shiites are slowly gaining ground in the Middle East and the Sunni Arabs are increasingly fearful of the extent of Russia's alliance with Iran and Syria. Closer ties between Afghanistan, Russia and India will also alarm the Saudis Pakistani lackeys. However whatever is good for the Iranian goose is good for the Tajik gander.

[retro]

Georgia's President says terror attack in Moscow was 'payback'

Mikheil Saakashvili, the President of Georgia, told The Independent yesterday that attacks like Monday's suicide bombing at a Moscow airport were "payback" for Russia's policies in the North Caucasus, as he compared the country to a "crocodile ready to swallow you up".

Mr Saakashvili and the Russian leadership have exchanged regular insults since the 2008 war between the countries over the breakaway territories of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, but his comments are likely to enrage Moscow, coming so soon after the blast at Domodedovo Airport that killed 35 people.

Speaking in the Georgian capital last night, President Saakashvili – whose country's two breakaway regions are recognised by Moscow as independent states – accused Russia of trying to destabilise neighbouring countries by encouraging secessionist movements.

"I discussed this personally with Vladimir Putin a while ago. I said to him that the payback for his country for supporting separatists would be that violence would come back to hit them as well," Mr Saakashvili said. "Putin said, 'No, if anyone tries anything against us, we shall crush them like xxxxroaches,' while jabbing and twisting his thumb on the table in front him."

Before his interview with The Independent, the Georgian President made similar comments in a televised question-and-answer session. "Russia has a political mentality which is on the level of a reptile, like a crocodile ready to swallow you up," Mr Saakashvili said. There is a well-documented personal enmity between Mr Saakashvili and Mr Putin. The Georgian President once said that talking to Mr Putin was "like somebody standing with an axe at your head and saying: "Don't worry, everything's OK, close your eyes and relax.'"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/georgias-president-says-terror-attack-in-moscow-was-payback-2195551.html

[sedrak]

Re: Bombing at Domodedovo Airport

When it comes to the Chechens, Armenians have no sympathy exactly because of the Artsakh cause. Basayev and his cronies sided with Azerbaijan and fought against the liberation directly on the battlefield.

Yes but Basayev was an Islamic terrorist, fighting for "jihad" and those people help any "Muslim brother" without even considering what they're doing is good or bad. Just think it a little bit, if you support independence, self-determination for your country and your people, how can you not support other country's self-determination just because "they're different than us" (I mean we have different religions, ethnicities)? That's called hypocrisy, and it's one of the things we've been fighting against for so long. I support the independence of Chechnya because oppressed people have no ethnicity, neither do oppressors, and freedom is not only available for some people, but should be to anyone.

And Basayev doesn't represent all Chechens, I believe it is nonsense to discriminate a whole bunch of people basing your criterion on the crimes one motherxxxxer and his gang of terrorists, and those who follow and will follow, did not only to us, but to their own people.

Yet again, I would like to share with you Fed a video of Chechen singer Heda Hamzatova performing "Hye Qajer", and if you follow up some videos you'll find she also sings about the war in Chechnya http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foTX1...eature=related

So being pro-Chechnian independence and against the war in there has nothing to do with having issues with Armenians. In the end they are people just like us.

[Federate]

Re: Bombing at Domodedovo Airport

Yes but Basayev was an Islamic terrorist, fighting for "jihad" and those people help any "Muslim brother" without even considering what they're doing is good or bad. Just think it a little bit, if you support independence, self-determination for your country and your people, how can you not support other country's self-determination just because "they're different than us" (I mean we have different religions, ethnicities)? That's called hypocrisy, and it's one of the things we've been fighting against for so long. I support the independence of Chechnya because oppressed people have no ethnicity, neither do oppressors, and freedom is not only available for some people, but should be to anyone.

And Basayev doesn't represent all Chechens, I believe it is nonsense to discriminate a whole bunch of people basing your criterion on the crimes one motherxxxxer and his gang of terrorists, and those who follow and will follow, did not only to us, but to their own people.

Yet again, I would like to share with you Fed a video of Chechen singer Heda Hamzatova performing "Hye Qajer", and if you follow up some videos you'll find she also sings about the war in Chechnya http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foTX1...eature=related

So being pro-Chechnian independence and against the war in there has nothing to do with having issues with Armenians. In the end they are people just like us.

Ashot jan, the Chechen war is no longer a nationalist one of right to self-determination. That died with the invasion of Dagestan by Chechens after the First Chechen War. The war has shifted to an Islamic insurgency with the leaders of the revolt calling for an Islamic Emirate in the North Caucasus made up of Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia. The same leaders of the Chechen batallion in Artsakh are the same leaders of the current war, or rather "were" when it comes to Basayev and al-Khattab. You claim they do not represent everyone else but they are the ones fighting the war. So based on that, do we even know if the Chechen population supports independence or would just want Russia to finally invest in the region and create jobs and stability after 2 decades of wars?

I agree with fighting hypocracy and that is noble but sadly that is simply not how politics works. Picking and choosing is one of the rules of the game. Just like Armenians do not support the TRNC and they don't support us back. Armenians, just like everyone else, are in it for their own gain and not for others simply because we can't expect others to back us up as well. Just look at how our "brotherly" Serbia votes against us in Azerbaijan's endless and meaningless resolutions in the UN. Can we really blame them? Look at how Russia supports South Ossetia and Abkhazia but doesn't support Kosovo. Same scenario, inverse support for the West. Countries call out hypocracy when it is in their own national interests.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Bombing at Domodedovo Airport

I'll just take some informative points from the article......


Roots of terrorism in Russia — an expert weighs in
Q&A with Caucasus specialist Thomas de Waal


http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2011/0...g-de-waal.html

CBC News: Many people in the West forget about the wars in Chechnya. The situation in that region is still very tense and produces many terrorists keen on revenge. Can you explain this enmity toward Russia.

This is a region with a long history of conflict with the Russian state, stretching back into the long colonial wars of the 19th century when the tsars sought to conquer the mountains of the North Caucasus and the Islamic peoples who lived there and resisted them.

In 1944, Stalin deported four of the nations of this region en masse — down to the last child and infant — to Central Asia, killing tens of thousands of people in the process. They were only allowed to return home in 1957. The Chechens were the largest of these national groups. So, there is a difficult history there. Having said that, I believe war could have been avoided in 1994 if the then government of Boris Yeltsin had met the Chechen pro-independence movement halfway, not granting them full independence but giving them proper respect for their national aspirations.

CBC News: Is there a resolution to the conflict in the North Caucasus or is there too much ill will now directed at Putin's and Medvedev's policies in the region and against nationals of that region?


There is certainly no short-term solution to the ongoing violence in the North Caucasus. The best thing that can be said about the conflict is that the militants do not enjoy widespread support. Most of the population is not so radical and wants to get on with their lives.

But there is now what looks like a permanent radical minority who have the means and the will to carry on perpetrating acts of violence and terror like this. And it will take years, if not decades, to make the region more stable and economically viable to persuade marginalized people that it is not worth their while joining the insurgency.

[sedrak]

Re: Bombing at Domodedovo Airport

Ashot jan, the Chechen war is no longer a nationalist one of right to self-determination. That died with the invasion of Dagestan by Chechens after the First Chechen War. The war has shifted to an Islamic insurgency with the leaders of the revolt calling for an Islamic Emirate in the North Caucasus made up of Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia. The same leaders of the Chechen batallion in Artsakh are the same leaders of the current war, or rather "were" when it comes to Basayev and al-Khattab. You claim they do not represent everyone else but they are the ones fighting the war. So based on that, do we even know if the Chechen population supports independence or would just want Russia to finally invest in the region and create jobs and stability after 2 decades of wars?

I agree with fighting hypocracy and that is noble but sadly that is simply not how politics works. Picking and choosing is one of the rules of the game. Just like Armenians do not support the TRNC and they don't support us back. Armenians, just like everyone else, are in it for their own gain and not for others simply because we can't expect others to back us up as well. Just look at how our "brotherly" Serbia votes against us in Azerbaijan's endless and meaningless resolutions in the UN. Can we really blame them? Look at how Russia supports South Ossetia and Abkhazia but doesn't support Kosovo. Same scenario, inverse support for the West. Countries call out hypocracy when it is in their own national interests.

I strongly believe, hope I am not wrong, that after 2 wars, innumerable human rights violations, a destroyed capital, half a population exiled, and Russia down in fear of these terrorists (which remember also attack their own people), Chechens will have opened their eyes about who these warmongers are and what they've brought to their own people, and even though keep to support independence, don't support these terrorists alleged "way" for independence, which as you say, has turned into nothing more than an extremist religious war. I really hope so.

As to the other, yes Fed jan I agree, it is true. But one must also consider the fact that all of this issue is strongly dependent on history. Would I support the Turks invasion, attack, genocide on Cyprus and its people to create the TRCN? Of course not. Would I support Kosovo's illusionary creation as a state to comply with US dirty political control of former Yugoslavia? Of course not. Recently South Sudan also voted for independence, and even though the Christian minority there has passed through two civil wars, and Genocide by the Muslim in the north, one doesn't have to be so smart to know that US interests in their petrol reserves is the only reason they're getting their independence.

Yet, Artsakh, Chechnya, South Ossetia, Abkhazia have a different history. As long as self-determination keeps being recognized in other parts of the world, as painful and unjust it is sometimes, they are precedents for Artsakh and will eventually have some impact on its independence process.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Bombing at Domodedovo Airport

I strongly believe, hope I am not wrong, that after 2 wars, innumerable human rights violations, a destroyed capital, half a population exiled, and Russia down in fear of these terrorists (which remember also attack their own people), Chechens will have opened their eyes about who these warmongers are and what they've brought to their own people, and even though keep to support independence, don't support these terrorists alleged "way" for independence, which as you say, has turned into nothing more than an extremist religious war. I really hope so.

As to the other, yes Fed jan I agree, it is true. But one must also consider the fact that all of this issue is strongly dependent on history. Would I support the Turks invasion, attack, genocide on Cyprus and its people to create the TRCN? Of course not. Would I support Kosovo's illusionary creation as a state to comply with US dirty political control of former Yugoslavia? Of course not. Recently South Sudan also voted for independence, and even though the Christian minority there has passed through two civil wars, and Genocide by the Muslim in the north, one doesn't have to be so smart to know that US interests in their petrol reserves is the only reason they're getting their independence.

Yet, Artsakh, Chechnya, South Ossetia, Abkhazia have a different history. As long as self-determination keeps being recognized in other parts of the world, as painful and unjust it is sometimes, they are precedents for Artsakh and will eventually have some impact on its independence process.

Why is it that China can do business and invest in other countries without creating mayhem? The U.S. always makes claims of human rights violations and starts wars/ethnic violence in order to install puppet regimes in the oil rich regions.

[Federate]

Re: Bombing at Domodedovo Airport

Yet, Artsakh, Chechnya, South Ossetia, Abkhazia have a different history. As long as self-determination keeps being recognized in other parts of the world, as painful and unjust it is sometimes, they are precedents for Artsakh and will eventually have some impact on its independence process.

While I agree that in Artsakh's case it might help impact the recognition of it if more countries are recognised, in the end I think obtaining Russia's support is the most important (or any superpower really). The general rule seems to be that you're protected or "in the club" as long as one superpower recognises you. In our case, the most likely seems to be Russia and keeping them on our side is fundamental in achieving our final "de jure" victory.

[retro]

Re: Bombing at Domodedovo Airport

Why is it that China can do business and invest in other countries without creating mayhem? The U.S. always makes claims of human rights violations and starts wars/ethnic violence in order to install puppet regimes in the oil rich regions.

Robert Mugabe is a Chinese puppet and he made every one in Zimbabwe billionaires.