Did US use atomic bomb to kill Bin Laden?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Did US use atomic bomb to kill Bin Laden?

So let me get this straight. Osama is a actor hired by Hollywood, all his video tapings have been done in Hollywood, and he is financed by Zionists, in an attempt to take over the world....I really hope you are not serious about this...

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In related news,

Many people, of course, assume that there is a lot of evidence that bin Laden is still alive, namely, the dozens of audio tape and video tape “messages from bin Laden” that have appeared since 2001. These tapes provide good evidence, however, only if they are authentic. The longest chapter of my book is devoted to this question.

I show, in the first place, that the technology for making fake audio and video tapes is now so advanced that even experts can be fooled. So although the press regularly tells us that intelligence agencies have authenticated the latest bin Laden tape, it is virtually impossible to prove a tape to be authentic.

It is sometimes possible, however, to prove a tape to be a fake. For example: If the person hired to play bin Laden writes with his right hand; if he is much heavier and darker than bin Laden was in a tape made about the same time; if he has fatter hands and shorter fingers; if his nose has a different shape. And if, in discussing the Twin Towers, he says that the fire melted the steel, whereas the real bin Laden would have known that a building fire cannot melt steel. I am speaking here of the video that was allegedly found by US troops in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, in November 2001, which is widely known as the “bin Laden confession video.”

Also obviously fabricated was the “October Surprise” video, which appeared on October 29, 2004, just in time to help George W. Bush get reelected. One clue that it was a fake, aside from its timing, is provided by its language. Bin Laden’s own messages were saturated with references to Allah and the Prophet Mohammed. But in this October Surprise video, Allah was mentioned rarely and the only “Mohammad” mentioned was Mohamed Atta. Also, whereas undoubtedly authentic bin Laden messages portrayed worldly events as cause or at least permitted by Allah, the speaker on this October Surprise video gave a purely secular account of events, even telling the American people: “Your security is in your own hands.”

The most obviously faked video is one that, appearing in 2007, was identical to the October Surprise video of 2004, except that the bin Laden figure now had a completely black beard, leading me to call it the video from “Blackbeard the Terrorist.” Although pundits tried, with straight faces, to explain why bin Laden might have dyed his beard, or put on a fake one, this video was best treated with the respect it deserved by a YouTube video featuring a actor wearing a very long, very black, beard, and saying:

Hello, long time no see. It is me, Osama bin Laden. And no, this not to be confused with just-for-men hair color commercial. . . . I make this video to prove to world that me still alive and kicking.

This video is very funny. But there is, of course, nothing funny about the fact that obviously fake bin Laden videos have been used, and are still being used, to justify the AfPak war, which continues to kill dozens if not hundreds of innocent people each week, including women and children attending weddings and funerals.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=15601

[gegev]

Re: Did US use atomic bomb to kill Bin Laden?

... The US won't get punished for its deeds because it is the US....

God/Force Major: punished USA by disastrous flooding.

No superpower is able to confront. God blames/punishes American politics. Judah's 30 silver coins in action ...

[Mos]

Re: Did US use atomic bomb to kill Bin Laden?

Mos jan I agree. My point is not much about Armenia's foreign policy as it is to stop defending J3ws/Israel and downplay the immense power their lobby has and the immense "infiltration" (if you may call it that) that they have in all levels of American society. It's not "anti-semitic" to point out that such and such for example is a Zionist. It's an informal taboo we're all afraid to face: they have overrepresentative power that is not in the best interest of the host country (the superpower USA). Michael Sheuer hit the nail on its head and made Bill Maher look like a fool. The point is that we should stop making excuses for these Zionist immoral cowards and call them for what they are. They should be treated like any other anti-Armenian lobby.

Well, fortunately, it seems that has over time gotten more in the open. I've read some literature, and from what I see slowly it's becoming less of a taboo to criticise the Israeli Lobby which yes does have a powerful hold on American politics, in my view an inappropriately strong hold. America has often acted against its own interests in Middle East to satisfy this lobby. The Iraq War would not have happened if it weren't for a few neo-cons and their right wing Israeli buddies. There was this new J3wish lobby created, forgot the name, but their aims were to counter to aggressive right wing stance of the main Israeli lobbies. Though, not to play the devil's advocate, but someone could also argue that there is a over representation of Armenian political power in US, given the relative small Armenian population and the our country. But you have to admit, without this lobby US would be much more anti-Armenian than it is now.

Alliances, partnerships are constantly changing and we should take advantage of this. If the strong J3wish lobby becomes "comfortably" anti-Turkish we could use their power to advance our own interests. Ends justify the means.

P.S. The Islamic organisation has little to no lobbying power over anything, they are overrated. The UN itself is just a tool used by the 5 members with veto.

Fortunately, the UN has little power or else we would be in bigger trouble. Though, symbolically it's a blow in the face. I'm sure if they had a powerful lobby in US they would have supported the Turks/Azeris, especially the Sunni powers such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Not so much Iran.

I've read some of your comments here and there and I praise your stance against American foreign policy. I don't think you defend it. My point was to show you that they can get away with any lie and can pretty much do whatever they want with little or no consequences because of blind faith by Americans, almost infinite resources and because they are a superpower. And this and many other things mentioned leads me to not trust the official government version on many things, including 9/11. For all we know, this might be another Operation Northwoods or Gulf of Tonkin etc.

Bush Administration was no doubt filled with srikaner and it's just to investigate all the actions that happened during that time, including 9/11. I looked into that quite often, and actually for some time believed in the 9/11 conspiracy theories (esp after watching Loose Change), but after reading some of the opposing literature from scientists and other academicians refuting Loose Change, I began to shy away from that side of the story. I'm open to debate, but from what I have seen, I just believe there wasn't foul play in 9/11. Sure there are other incidents where there was, but not in 9/11.

(Again, i'm simply assuming Bin Laden was killed on May 2.) Islam does not work that way. In Islam, when someone is killed by the enemy, morale actually goes up. They believe in holy martyrdom. So this won't change anything other than the system will create a new boogeyman (Ayman Zawahiri), the cycle of violence will perpetuate, more freedoms will be taken away and more coverups will take place (Bin Laden and Saddam deaths).

In my view, instead of attacking Muslims and invading countries US should deeply look at why all these Muslims hate America. It's not because they hate "American freedoms" but its based on their foreign policy, especially regarding Israel. I don't see many such Muslims burning Swiss flags or French, they are as much Western and have same "freedoms". America would do itself favour if it made its foreign policy more rational, less biased, and stopped kneeling down to Israeli demands so much, as it may help Israel but in the end look at what it's done to the US and Middle East as a whole. This is a fundamental part to the solution, however, US over these years (esp under Bush) has often sought only a military solution.

[Federate]

Re: Did US use atomic bomb to kill Bin Laden?

Well, it's fine to criticise Israel/J3wish lobby groups (people have done that) and it's more than fine to criticise Israel. The 'anti-Semitic' label comes in when one starts talking about j3ws as a people having a particular characteristic (same with any other group). That being said there are idiot that label 'anti-semitic' to some one who criticises Israel, but they are mislead, and tend to be the more rabid right wing nationalists. Let's not forget the numerous J3ws that criticise Israel. Of course, the Turk-J3wish lobby has been anti-Armenian, no one is denying that, I feel it's free to criticise them. Of course, the marriage was based on the strategic ties between Turkey and Israel, not some brotherhood between Turks and J3ws. We saw how these lobbies have separated ever since a break down in relations. It's important to take not of the nature of this lobby. Still doesn't make up for their actions of course. That being said, I have always criticised these lobbies and their neo-con allies. When it comes to Muslim lobbies, the biggest one is the Islamic Organisation of States which aggressively supported Azerbaijan during the war and many of its main members pushed anti-Armenian resolutions in the UN. So, as you see, we are limited in friends, Azeris have oil, Turkey is a strategically important country. Fortunately, we have solid relations with Russia, Iran, and also EU - and we should take advantage of groups or countries that are bad with our enemies.

Second, there is a tendency to group all J3ws with the J3wish policy makers. J3ws are a diverse people and are well divided with their views. Heck there are orthodox xxxs who love Ahmadinejad and others who want to kill him. We need to be smart, and realise the sector of j3ws which mainly plays in anti-Armenian activities (namely the right wingers and their neo-con allies).

Mos jan I agree. My point is not much about Armenia's foreign policy as it is to stop defending J3ws/Israel and downplay the immense power their lobby has and the immense "infiltration" (if you may call it that) that they have in all levels of American society. It's not "anti-semitic" to point out that such and such for example is a Zionist. It's an informal taboo we're all afraid to face: they have overrepresentative power that is not in the best interest of the host country (the superpower USA). Michael Sheuer hit the nail on its head and made Bill Maher look like a fool. The point is that we should stop making excuses for these Zionist immoral cowards and call them for what they are. They should be treated like any other anti-Armenian lobby.

P.S. The Islamic organisation has little to no lobbying power over anything, they are overrated. The UN itself is just a tool used by the 5 members with veto.

I never set out to defend US and its wars in the Middle East. I always resented the hypocritical US foreign policy. The US won't get punished for its deeds because it is the US. Countries rather be good with the US than bad. As they say, the winner writes history. That being said, remember all the nations during their height of power. Great Britain, Napoleon France, Roman Empire, Mongols, etc. it's not like they were angels either, they did the same kind of imperialistic wars and never got punished for it because they were the superpower of the time. Unfair? Yes. Excuse US's actions? No.

I've read some of your comments here and there and I praise your stance against American foreign policy. I don't think you defend it. My point was to show you that they can get away with any lie and can pretty much do whatever they want with little or no consequences because of blind faith by Americans, almost infinite resources and because they are a superpower. And this and many other things mentioned leads me to not trust the official government version on many things, including 9/11. For all we know, this might be another Operation Northwoods or Gulf of Tonkin etc.

Bin laden's death will only be a morale blow to al-qaeda, their ideology obviously will continue to live on. It's pretty obvious that many of the weapons the Mujahedeen were using against US were from the US since the Afghan war. Same with Saddam. US is just going to do what's in their interests, they don't care about how it looks from the outside, and obviously they don't need.

(Again, i'm simply assuming Bin Laden was killed on May 2.) Islam does not work that way. In Islam, when someone is killed by the enemy, morale actually goes up. They believe in holy martyrdom. So this won't change anything other than the system will create a new boogeyman (Ayman Zawahiri), the cycle of violence will perpetuate, more freedoms will be taken away and more coverups will take place (Bin Laden and Saddam deaths).

[Mos]

Re: Did US use atomic bomb to kill Bin Laden?

When it comes to lobbying, we should be more aggressive in allying with Greeks and Cypriots all of which are our historic friends who have suffered a similar history by the Turks. They have a simlar mindset as us and we should maintain our strong trust. Here is a good example of our Greek friends:

[Mos]

Re: Did US use atomic bomb to kill Bin Laden?

Who is hating on success? Who is jealous about foreign government manipulation? You have admitted that they are in all aspects of society and they are overrepresented. This is good and this does not make you a so-called "anti-semite". You missed the part that it is in the detriment to other countries and the host one too. But because they are J3ws, we do not speak up and I can't blame anyone for this because they have created a system where any J3wish criticism makes you an "anti-semite" and we all abide by it. I say if anything needs evidence, it's accusing someone of "anti-semitism". And even our fellow Armenians offer no criticism to the most anti-Armenian lobby outside of Turks - Zionist lobby. If this lobby was Muslim, many of us especially you Mos would be all over bashing and criticising the lobby. But all we offer is veiled criticism and then make up excuses for them. They are the most immoral group on the face of the Earth who deny a genocide even though they are victims themselves (this is the part where we make up excuses for them ) We do not even have a fraction of the power they have and making hypothetical situations in our heads does not change the fact that they are our enemies in the present day.

Well, it's fine to criticise Israel/J3wish lobby groups (people have done that) and it's more than fine to criticise Israel. The 'anti-Semitic' label comes in when one starts talking about j3ws as a people having a particular characteristic (same with any other group). That being said there are idiot that label 'anti-semitic' to some one who criticises Israel, but they are mislead, and tend to be the more rabid right wing nationalists. Let's not forget the numerous J3ws that criticise Israel. Of course, the Turk-J3wish lobby has been anti-Armenian, no one is denying that, I feel it's free to criticise them. Of course, the marriage was based on the strategic ties between Turkey and Israel, not some brotherhood between Turks and J3ws. We saw how these lobbies have separated ever since a break down in relations. It's important to take not of the nature of this lobby. Still doesn't make up for their actions of course. That being said, I have always criticised these lobbies and their neo-con allies. When it comes to Muslim lobbies, the biggest one is the Islamic Organisation of States which aggressively supported Azerbaijan during the war and many of its main members pushed anti-Armenian resolutions in the UN. So, as you see, we are limited in friends, Azeris have oil, Turkey is a strategically important country. Fortunately, we have solid relations with Russia, Iran, and also EU - and we should take advantage of groups or countries that are bad with our enemies.

Second, there is a tendency to group all J3ws with the J3wish policy makers. J3ws are a diverse people and are well divided with their views. Heck there are orthodox xxxs who love Ahmadinejad and others who want to kill him. We need to be smart, and realise the sector of j3ws which mainly plays in anti-Armenian activities (namely the right wingers and their neo-con allies).

How many people are demanding compensation for the Iraq lies? How many people have taken the US to court? Where is the backlash to the lies we heard about Iraq? The reason that motivates them to make these lies is because they can get away with it in broad daylight, even if the secret is out. The Iraqi puppet government even payed $400 million dollars to the US this past week! Robbery. Your request for evidence is understandable but that's not how black ops/false flag ops work, that's not how the CIA works. The whole purpose of the CIA is to work behind the scenes and it's their job not to leave evidence. The CIA is just an example that may or may not be related to 9/11. I'm not saying there is a definite theory on the events that happened on 9/11 but there's really no reason to believe the government's story as much as the many other theories that exist other than its word for it. They have no credibility with Middle Eastern affairs because of their dirty history in the region and the fact that they had ties to many of these elements that they created and they have now put to rest.

I never set out to defend US and its wars in the Middle East. I always resented the hypocritical US foreign policy. The US won't get punished for its deeds because it is the US. Countries rather be good with the US than bad. As they say, the winner writes history. That being said, remember all the nations during their height of power. Great Britain, Napoleon France, Roman Empire, Mongols, etc. it's not like they were angels either, they did the same kind of imperialistic wars and never got punished for it because they were the superpower of the time. Unfair? Yes. Excuse US's actions? No.

As for Bin Laden, who cares if he is dead? Let's assume he was murdered in the Pakistani operation that violated all international laws and Pakistani sovereignty. The US just got rid of one of its aging assets. He is irrelevant. The idea of al-Qaeda exists and that is the greatest "achievement". The foundation/base (al-Qaeda) as a brand has been created. 10 years, 3 trillion dollars, 2 or 3 wars and half a million deaths later, hooligans go on the street and celebrate. Why was he not taken in a court of law? Because Bin Laden in a court is 10 times more dangerous than Bin Laden in a cave. After all, they hung Saddam for killing 150 Shi'as without ever touching the Kurdish killings... they never gave him a chance to explain from where he got the gases that he killed Kurds with his ties to Donald Rumsfeld etc. No, they couldn't take that risk with Bin Laden, simply too risky.

Bin laden's death will only be a morale blow to al-qaeda, their ideology obviously will continue to live on. It's pretty obvious that many of the weapons the Mujahedeen were using against US were from the US since the Afghan war. Same with Saddam. US is just going to do what's in their interests, they don't care about how it looks from the outside, and obviously they don't need.

[Federate]

Re: Did US use atomic bomb to kill Bin Laden?

Yes, J3ws have climbed up to high ranks of societies in the countries where there are many of them. Is that something bad? I mean you work hard, you establish connections, and you rank up. It's the same with Armenians living in foreign countries, just look at some of the ranks Armenians are in US or especially in Russia where some of the richest men of the country who control important sectors are Armenian. Should we be jealous and hate Armenians now, because they are taking high positions in societies? It's exactly that thinking that actually fuelled the brutal genocide of Armenians. This ability to have high representation in a society is a feature to a large diaspora and a people who try to stay united with their identity. I really don't see why there needs to be paranoia spread regarding this fact.

Of course governments can do all that, including US. They funded some of these terrorist groups before. But that being said, one must have clear evidence in order to back up an alternative side of the story. There is a conspiracy theory to everything, and some have some legitimacy and some don't at all. It's worth to look at the alternative side often times, but by looking no one is saying that it's true, sometimes the assessment of the alternative just backs up more the main story. Saying that al-Qaeda, 9/11, and everything related has been a pure construction of the US government is an immense allegation that demands direct evidence, not some circumstantial supposition, or thoughts based on feelings. Especially when some people here say that this "alternative" story is proven beyond a shadow of doubt, but fail to provide any evidence that attests to this confidence of factuality. I'm not saying the US is angels (after all they made up the reasons for invading Iraq) however things like these it's absurd to think that US government has been the source of.

Who is hating on success? Who is jealous about foreign government manipulation? You have admitted that they are in all aspects of society and they are overrepresented. This is good and this does not make you a so-called "anti-semite". You missed the part that it is in the detriment to other countries and the host one too. But because they are J3ws, we do not speak up and I can't blame anyone for this because they have created a system where any J3wish criticism makes you an "anti-semite" and we all abide by it. I say if anything needs evidence, it's accusing someone of "anti-semitism". And even our fellow Armenians offer no criticism to the most anti-Armenian lobby outside of Turks - Zionist lobby. If this lobby was Muslim, many of us especially you Mos would be all over bashing and criticising the lobby. But all we offer is veiled criticism and then make up excuses for them. They are the most immoral group on the face of the Earth who deny a genocide even though they are victims themselves (this is the part where we make up excuses for them ) We do not even have a fraction of the power they have and making hypothetical situations in our heads does not change the fact that they are our enemies in the present day.

How many people are demanding compensation for the Iraq lies? How many people have taken the US to court? Where is the backlash to the lies we heard about Iraq? The reason that motivates them to make these lies is because they can get away with it in broad daylight, even if the secret is out. The Iraqi puppet government even payed $400 million dollars to the US this past week! Robbery. Your request for evidence is understandable but that's not how black ops/false flag ops work, that's not how the CIA works. The whole purpose of the CIA is to work behind the scenes and it's their job not to leave evidence. The CIA is just an example that may or may not be related to 9/11. I'm not saying there is a definite theory on the events that happened on 9/11 but there's really no reason to believe the government's story as much as the many other theories that exist other than its word for it. They have no credibility with Middle Eastern affairs because of their dirty history in the region and the fact that they had ties to many of these elements that they created and they have now put to rest.

As for Bin Laden, who cares if he is dead? Let's assume he was murdered in the Pakistani operation that violated all international laws and Pakistani sovereignty. The US just got rid of one of its aging assets. He is irrelevant. The idea of al-Qaeda exists and that is the greatest "achievement". The foundation/base (al-Qaeda) as a brand has been created. 10 years, 3 trillion dollars, 2 or 3 wars and half a million deaths later, hooligans go on the street and celebrate. Why was he not taken in a court of law? Because Bin Laden in a court is 10 times more dangerous than Bin Laden in a cave. After all, they hung Saddam for killing 150 Shi'as without ever touching the Kurdish killings... they never gave him a chance to explain from where he got the gases that he killed Kurds with his ties to Donald Rumsfeld etc. No, they couldn't take that risk with Bin Laden, simply too risky.

EDIT: This is a pretty good example of what the US is capable of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

[Mos]

Re: Did US use atomic bomb to kill Bin Laden?

I haven't said anything that you have mentioned. When Kanada says Hollywood, he does not mean Hollywood literally, he means it's all a show/front/manipulation. As for the J3ws, they have overrepresentative power in all levels of society and this is fact. Within these levels of society, Zionists are represented as well and they work for their interests through the only superpower in the world. These interests run counter to most other countries, including the host one as Michael Sheuer has described in Kanada's posted video. I don't know if "taking over the world" is the right way to describe this though.

Quite the contrary, i'm saying it is very easy to stage (excellent choice of word ) terrorist attacks. Men in suits with briefcases can be as much terrorists as people with sandals and beards. The difference is that the first kind has more resources . I would not be quick to rule out any kind of conspiracy theory for the government's claims are just as much one of those than other people's claims are. Asking questions and demanding answers is great. For some people, this is crazy and unpatriotic.

Some good links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_operation and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag

Yes, J3ws have climbed up to high ranks of societies in the countries where there are many of them. Is that something bad? I mean you work hard, you establish connections, and you rank up. It's the same with Armenians living in foreign countries, just look at some of the ranks Armenians are in US or especially in Russia where some of the richest men of the country who control important sectors are Armenian. Should we be jealous and hate Armenians now, because they are taking high positions in societies? It's exactly that thinking that actually fuelled the brutal genocide of Armenians. This ability to have high representation in a society is a feature to a large diaspora and a people who try to stay united with their identity. I really don't see why there needs to be paranoia spread regarding this fact.

Of course governments can do all that, including US. They funded some of these terrorist groups before. But that being said, one must have clear evidence in order to back up an alternative side of the story. There is a conspiracy theory to everything, and some have some legitimacy and some don't at all. It's worth to look at the alternative side often times, but by looking no one is saying that it's true, sometimes the assessment of the alternative just backs up more the main story. Saying that al-Qaeda, 9/11, and everything related has been a pure construction of the US government is an immense allegation that demands direct evidence, not some circumstantial supposition, or thoughts based on feelings. Especially when some people here say that this "alternative" story is proven beyond a shadow of doubt, but fail to provide any evidence that attests to this confidence of factuality. I'm not saying the US is angels (after all they made up the reasons for invading Iraq) however things like these it's absurd to think that US government has been the source of.

[Federate]

Re: Did US use atomic bomb to kill Bin Laden?

Do even know how al-qaeda's information is spread? There isn't a "al-qaeda.com" that is official website to all their material - they are more covert and smart than that, they spread their information through different means, through different websites. That being said, West has actively worked on closing some notable websites and threatening the hosts that host them.

Well according the government, jihadist forums are excellent sources to confirm that the brand of Al-Qaeda makes claims.

[Federate]

Re: Did US use atomic bomb to kill Bin Laden?

So it's perfectly logical to say that J3ws are taking over the world and this whole al-Qaeda thing is just created in Hollywood? That to me seems very illogical and absurd - as the people here saying it can't come up with any evidence to back this ridiculous claim.

So you are saying it's impossible to stage terrorist attacks? That people can't organise themselves and attack something given they have the resources and training?

Al-Qaeda revolves around its principles which it uses internet/tv to spread and gain volunteers/supporters. Saying that al-Qaeda is just a hollywood creation demands credible proof or else it's just a blatant lie.

I haven't said anything that you have mentioned. When Kanada says Hollywood, he does not mean Hollywood literally, he means it's all a show/front/manipulation. As for the J3ws, they have overrepresentative power in all levels of society and this is fact. Within these levels of society, Zionists are represented as well and they work for their interests through the only superpower in the world. These interests run counter to most other countries, including the host one as Michael Sheuer has described in Kanada's posted video. I don't know if "taking over the world" is the right way to describe this though.

Quite the contrary, i'm saying it is very easy to stage (excellent choice of word ) terrorist attacks. Men in suits with briefcases can be as much terrorists as people with sandals and beards. The difference is that the first kind has more resources . I would not be quick to rule out any kind of conspiracy theory for the government's claims are just as much one of those than other people's claims are. Asking questions and demanding answers is great. For some people, this is crazy and unpatriotic.

Some good links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_operation and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag