Consequences Of Attacking Iran And Why Tehran Is Not Worried

[Lucin]

Re: Consequences Of Attacking Iran And Why Tehran Is Not Worried

Where is the War on Terror heading?


Recent remarks by the US presidential hopeful Tom Tancredo have shed more light on the absolute chaos governing American politics.

The Republican long shot said last week the best way to ward off a nuclear assault on American soil is to threaten to bomb Islam's holiest sites in Mecca and Medina.

The brash assertion even sparked a reaction from the US State Department which described it as 'absolutely crazy'.

The American political leaders' loud-mouthed rhetoric has seemingly reached a zenith. Earlier Democrat candidate Barack Obama suggested he would order military strikes against terrorists holed up in Pakistani territory.

The US gunboat diplomacy replete with belligerent comments makes one wonder where this country is heading. Evidently, the US is moving in a gravely dangerous direction.

Less than a month after the September 2001 attacks in New York, the US launched massive aerial bombing and ground assaults against Afghanistan in search of Osama bin Laden whom it alleged had masterminded the 9/11 attacks.

Six years on, the US has evidently fallen short of meeting its stated goals of capturing bin Laden and destroying al-Qaeda. Although the Taliban government was toppled initially, there has been an extraordinary Taliban resurgence lately.

Afghanistan has turned into a land with fragile stability and growing violence, and a war that has taken the lives of thousands of civilians. To add insult to injury, there has been a surge in illegal poppy cultivation turning the country into the world's number one producer of opium poppy.

In March 2003, the US troops supported by UK military forces launched an invasion of Iraq in search of Weapons of Mass Destruction which never existed in the first place. What's more, the stated purpose of restoring order to Iraq has failed as evidenced by the daily bloodbath on the streets of the war-plagued country.

The world's elite and justice-seeking people have repeatedly reminded the US that it is sinking further in the quagmire of Iraq. The Bush administration is under growing domestic pressure to call back troops home, while at the same time it has to cope with the US besmirched image globally.

It is no secret that the US so-called 'War on Terror' has been a shameful defeat and this has been recurrently admitted by political analysts and leaders the world over.

The Iraq war costs will exceed $1 trillion in tax-payers' money as forecast by the US Congressional Budget Office.

Instead of stirring public anxiety through recurrent warnings that the nation is under threat of biological and nuclear assaults, the US administration could perhaps spend a fraction of that money on tightening security and assuring the public it will protect them against the alleged terrorist attacks.

In reaction to Tancredo's blatant remarks, US State Department's Spokesman Tom Casey said the Bush administration has always made it very clear that "we want to have good, positive relations with countries certainly in the Middle East and broader Muslim world.”

Upon hearing those words, one wonders if the incumbent US government speaks a different language when it talks about 'good, positive relations' with the Muslim world. How can such remarks be construed against the background of rampant carnage in Iraq and Afghanistan and the US mum on the stream of atrocities by Zionists against Palestinians?

Casey said "to suggest that an appropriate response to terrorism would be to attack sites that are holy and sacred to more than a billion people throughout the world is just absolutely crazy".

The US statesmen however have fallen short of admitting that staging a war of terror that has led to a surge in terrorism rather than curb it and has claimed well above 750,000 civilian lives only in Iraq is far crazier. They've failed to admit that the so-called Operation Iraqi Freedom has only brought death, poverty and sufferings - and not freedom - to the Iraqis.

Tancredo's remarks can be interpreted as an 'absolutely crazy' brainchild, whereas the US invasion of Iraq is an 'absolutely crazier' pet project viciously and tactlessly translated into action.

Source: http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id...tionid=3510303

[Armenian]

Re: Consequences Of Attacking Iran And Why Tehran Is Not Worried

British losses soar as they prepare to leave Basra city



Two more British soldiers were killed in southern Iraq yesterday, raising the death toll in the UK's least successful military campaign since Suez in 1956. In both cases the British casualties were low but British forces wholly failed to achieve their objectives.

Two Irish Guardsman were killed and two were seriously wounded in the early hours of yesterday when their convoy was hit by a roadside bomb near the Rumaila oilfields west of Basra. The deaths bring to 168 the number of British personnel who have died in Iraq since the invasion in 2003. British losses have increased as they prepare to abandon their last base in Basra city and retreat to their frequently attacked air base on the outskirts of the city. Here the contingent of 5,500 troops has been hit by mortars and rockets more than 600 times in the past four months.

"Basra's residents and militiamen view this not as an orderly withdrawal but rather as an ignominious defeat," according to a report by the Brussels-based International Crisis Group (ICG) on Basra published in June. "Today, the city is controlled by militias, seemingly more powerful and unconstrained than before." British officials have privately echoed American claims that the Shia militias in Basra and in the rest of Iraq are being manipulated and supplied by Iran. But the three main Shia groupings in Basra, the Mehdi Army, the Badr Organisation and Fadhila, would control most of southern Iraq with or without Iranian aid.

"The British have basically been defeated in the south," a senior US intelligence official was quoted as saying in Baghdad. The final deterioration of the British position has become evident since the end of Operation Sinbad between September 2006 and March 2007 which sought to curb the militias and strengthen security in Basra. But from March on the militias have reasserted their hold on the city and killed 30 British soldiers between April and July, making it the deadliest period for British forces at any time since 2003.

The increase in attacks may be because the militias see the British as being on the run, but also because of the growing military friction between the Shia militiamen and the occupation forces in general. Lt-Gen Raymond Odierno, the US deputy commander in Iraq, says Shia militants were responsible for 73 per cent of the attacks that killed or wounded American soldiers in Baghdad in July. The increase in Shia attacks on British personnel may be part of the same pattern.

The US has been seeking to blame the escalation of Shia militia attacks on Iran but it is more likely that they are the result of growing frustration of the Shia, who make up 60 per cent of the Iraqi population, at what they see as increasing US support for the Sunni. The Pentagon and White House have launched a campaign to persuade the media that Iran's provision of sophisticated shaped charges is a decisive factor in the war and is causing numerous US casualties. The accusation is denied by Iran and, even if true, the provision of a single type of explosive device is unlikely to be of critical significance in such a complex struggle.

British forces have already withdrawn from three of the four provinces in southern Iraq saying they are turning over security to Iraqi government authority. But police and army in Basra and southern Iraq are largely under the control of militias. The outlook for the two million people in Basra, Iraq's second largest city, is not good. According to the ICG report, violence in the city has little to do with sectarianism or anti-occupation resistance but involves "the systematic misuse of official institutions, political assassinations, tribal vendettas, neighbourhood vigilantism... together with the rise of criminal mafias that increasingly intermingle with political actors."

Source: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...cle2851431.ece

[Armenian]

Re: Consequences Of Attacking Iran And Why Tehran Is Not Worried

Cheney urging military strikes on Iran



President Bush charged Thursday that Iran continues to arm and train insurgents who are killing U.S. soldiers in Iraq, and he threatened action if that continues. At a news conference Thursday, Bush said Iran had been warned of unspecified consequences if it continued its alleged support for anti-American forces in Iraq. U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker had conveyed the warning in meetings with his Iranian counterpart in Baghdad, the president said. Bush wasn't specific, and a State Department official refused to elaborate on the warning.

Behind the scenes, however, the president's top aides have been engaged in an intensive internal debate over how to respond to Iran's support for Shiite Muslim groups in Iraq and its nuclear program. Vice President xxxx Cheney several weeks ago proposed launching airstrikes at suspected training camps in Iraq run by the Quds force, a special unit of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, according to two U.S. officials who are involved in Iran policy. The debate has been accompanied by a growing drumbeat of allegations about Iranian meddling in Iraq from U.S. military officers, administration officials and administration allies outside government and in the news media. It isn't clear whether the media campaign is intended to build support for limited military action against Iran, to pressure the Iranians to curb their support for Shiite groups in Iraq or both.

Nor is it clear from the evidence the administration has presented whether Iran, which has long-standing ties to several Iraqi Shiite groups, including the Mahdi Army of radical cleric Muqtada al Sadr and the Badr Organization, which is allied with the U.S.-backed government of Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki, is a major cause of the anti-American and sectarian violence in Iraq or merely one of many. At other times, administration officials have blamed the Sunni Muslim group al Qaida in Iraq for much of the violence. For now, however, the president appears to have settled on a policy of stepped-up military operations in Iraq aimed at the suspected Iranian networks there, combined with direct American-Iranian talks in Baghdad to try to persuade Tehran to halt its alleged meddling.

The U.S. military launched one such raid Wednesday in Baghdad's predominantly Shiite Sadr City district. But so far that course has failed to halt what American military officials say is a flow of sophisticated roadside bombs, known as explosively formed penetrators, into Iraq. Last month they accounted for a third of the combat deaths among U.S.-led forces, according to the military. Cheney, who's long been skeptical of diplomacy with Iran, argued for military action if hard new evidence emerges of Iran's complicity in supporting anti-American forces in Iraq; for example, catching a truckload of fighters or weapons crossing into Iraq from Iran, one official said. The two officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to talk publicly about internal government deliberations.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice opposes this idea, the officials said. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has stated publicly that "we think we can handle this inside the borders of Iraq." Lea Anne McBride, a Cheney spokeswoman, said only that "the vice president is right where the president is" on Iran policy. Bush left no doubt at his news conference that he intended to get tough with Iran. "One of the main reasons that I asked Ambassador Crocker to meet with Iranians inside Iraq was to send the message that there will be consequences for . . . people transporting, delivering EFPs, highly sophisticated IEDs (improvised explosive devices), that kill Americans in Iraq," he said. He also appeared to call on the Iranian people to change their government.

"My message to the Iranian people is, you can do better than this current government," he said. "You don't have to be isolated. You don't have to be in a position where you can't realize your full economic potential."

The Bush administration has launched what appears to be a coordinated campaign to pin more of Iraq's security troubles on Iran. Last week, Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the No. 2 U.S. military commander in Iraq, said Shiite militiamen had launched 73 percent of the attacks that had killed or wounded American troops in July. U.S. officials think that majority Shiite Iran is providing militiamen with EFPs, which pierce armored vehicles and explode once inside. Last month, Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner, a multinational force spokesman, said members of the Quds force had helped plan a January attack in the holy Shiite city of Karbala, which lead to the deaths of five American soldiers. Bergner said the military had evidence that some of the attackers had trained at Quds camps near Tehran. Bush's efforts to pressure Iran are complicated by the fact that the leaders of U.S.-supported governments in Iraq and Afghanistan have a more nuanced view of their neighbor.

Maliki is on a three-day visit to Tehran, during which he was photographed Wednesday hand in hand with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Unconfirmed media reports said Maliki had told Iranian officials they'd played a constructive role in the region. Asked about that, Bush said he hadn't been briefed on the meeting. "Now if the signal is that Iran is constructive, I will have to have a heart-to-heart with my friend the prime minister, because I don't believe they are constructive. I don't think he in his heart of hearts thinks they're constructive either," he said. Bush and Afghan President Hamid Karzai differed on Iran's role when they met last weekend, with Karzai saying in a TV interview that Iran was "a helper" and Bush challenging that view.

The toughening U.S. position on Iran puts Karzai and Iraqi leaders such as Maliki in a difficult spot between Iran, their longtime ally, and the United States, which is spending lives and treasure to secure their newly formed government. A senior Iraqi official in Baghdad said the Iraqi government received regular intelligence briefings from the United States about suspected Iranian activities. He refused to discuss details, but said the American position worried him. The United States is "becoming more focused on Iranian influence inside Iraq," said the official, who requested anonymity to discuss private talks with the Americans. "And we don't want Iraq to become a zone of conflict between Iran and the U.S."

Proposals to use force against Iran over its actions in Iraq mark a new phase in the Bush administration's long internal war over Iran policy. Until now, some hawks within the administration — including Cheney — are said to have favored military strikes to stop Iran from furthering its suspected ambitions for nuclear weapons. Rice has championed a diplomatic strategy, but that, too, has failed to deter Iran so far. Patrick Clawson, an Iran specialist at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, said a strike on the Quds camps in Iran could make the nuclear diplomacy more difficult. Before launching such a strike, "We better be prepared to go public with very detailed and very convincing intelligence," Clawson said.

Source: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/18834.html

[Siamanto]

Re: Consequences Of Attacking Iran And Why Tehran Is Not Worried

Once again, Armenians of Lebanon, specifically the Dashnaktsutyun, have show political maturity by not falling victim to Western and Zionist manipulations.

More pointless and false party propaganda?

The combination of "once again," "specifically the Dashnaktsutyun" and "not falling victim to Western and Zionist manipulations" is - to remain politically correct - amusing considering that
1. The Dashnaks are historic allies of the Phalange party and together served the interests of pro-Zionist and pro-American forces for decades
2. In the past, as allies of the Phalange party and servants of the pro-Zionist forces they have assassinated - yes, killed - Armenians who opposed the pro-Zionist, pro-American influences.

So why the flip-flop - it can hardly be a "change of heart?" Can the following shed some light?

Another good discovery would be to recognize that his "victory" was saved by the Armenian Tashnaq party, a historic ally of the Jumayels, which had defected to his side for their own political interests.

[Armenian]

Re: Consequences Of Attacking Iran And Why Tehran Is Not Worried

Since we are on the topic of ARF "propaganda," here is a good one:

The Boston Globe

HEADLINE: Defending the land, no matter the cost; Network seeks Armenian freedom; ARMENIANS IN AMERICA Last of two parts

April 24, 1995

From the outside, the modern brick building on Bigelow Avenue here looks like it could house a dentist's office or a law firm. But for those who can read the Armenian lettering that lines the building's front wall, and know what country's flag hangs in the front hall, 80 Bigelow Ave. is one of the most important addresses in town.

It is a key field office of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, an ultra-secretive organization that officials say was one of the main sponsors of a brutal wave of international terrorist attacks in the 1970s and '80s, and is now believed to be providing millions of dollars to fund a drawn-out war 8,000 miles away in the former Soviet republic of Azerbaijan.

Though Armenians from Boston to Beirut share deep ties with their embattled homeland, Dashnak, as the organization is known, constitutes the most extreme form of Armenian diaspora support aimed at promoting Armenian independence at any cost. From strongholds in Los Angeles, Boston, Paris, Athens and the Middle East, Dashnak has organized what Western officials say is one of the most sophisticated diaspora networks in the world.

By its own admission, Dashnak has supplied everything from Armenian-American mercenaries and machine guns to baby food to prop up Nagorno-Karabakh, the kidney-shaped enclave where an undeclared war against neighboring Azerbaijan has been fought since 1988. About the size of Delaware, Nagorno-Karabakh is populated mainly by ethnic Armenians, but is still nominally a part of Muslim Azerbaijan.

"All resources have to go to the war," said Apo Bohigian, a Lebanese-born American and a leader of the Dashnak party who was expelled from Armenia in January following a government crackdown on the organization's activities. "To defend the land. That is the only thing that is important. The interest of the fatherland is above everything."

Though the warring parties in the seven-year conflict have been held apart for almost a year by a cease-fire, most specialists believe fighting will flare again in the coming months. And while Azerbaijan's population is about 70 times that of Karabakh, the Armenian forces are now on top. Analysts say this David vs. Goliath outcome is due in large part to the diaspora fighters, who are credited with planning and leading the two most important offensives, in the spring and fall of 1993.

The foreign assistance, say Western specialists and analysts, has not only swung the pendulum on a conflict that just a few years ago seemed a lost cause for the Armenians. It has also given a scattered and wounded diaspora a chance to fight back, and in the process acquire a new sense of pride and dignity.

Diaspora often ideologically split

Similar to the powerful xxxish community, the 4 million-strong Armenian diaspora - about 1 million of whom live in the United States

* has often been ideologically split. Moderates believe the homeland should be aided with humanitarian assistance, cultural exchanges and polite pressure on the governments in the countries where Armenians have settled. Though they favor Karabakh becoming part of Armenia, by and large the moderates have opposed what they consider the fanaticism of their radical-thinking brethren.

But nationalists like Bohigian provide a window on an ultra-nationalist Armenian movement that advocates more extreme measures. The Armenian people have been xxxxxled on long enough, so their argument goes, and the only way to survive in a hostile sea is to fight back. Because Azerbaijan is populated by ethnic Turks, many of these Armenian nationalists see the war in Karabakh as an opportunity to avenge massacres during World War I, during which the Armenians say that up to 1.5 million of their people died at the hands of the Ottoman Turks.

The ultra-nationalist movement traces its roots back to Boston, once the command center of a secret terrorist organization known as Nemesis. Over the years, Armenian nationalists have joined forces with some of the world's most feared terrorist organizations. As the nexus of the movement, Dashnak, which is based in Athens, boasts "bureaus" throughout the world, including the one in Watertown. On most days, the office on Bigelow Street is a bustle of activity and ringing telephones. Activists and sympathizers from the Boston area and beyond flow through the doors of the building, and phone lines crackle with news from Washington, Yerevan and Karabakh.

Tatul Papazian, a leader in the Watertown Dashnak bureau and also the editor of the "Armenian Review," described the office as a locus to keep the Armenian dream alive. "Dashnak's role . . . is mostly in making the people believe it was possible to fight," he said. Papazian, a soft-spoken intellectual, said the Watertown bureau serves both as a beacon for the local Armenian community - sponsoring forums, publishing materials and hosting foreign visitors - and as a liasion with the organization's other offices and its political wing, the Armenian National Committee.

Worldwide, Dashnak relies on a sophisticated network of activists and sympathizers to raise money and support for the cause in Karabakh; in a 24-hour telethon last year on the Armenian-owned Horizon Channel in California, the organization gathered $ 1.5 million for the war effort. Two months ago, a California telethon raised another $ 1.4 million.
"We were the ones that kept the dream of independence alive. . . . by fighting for our rights," Bohigian said. "The idea of fighting for national liberation was a Dashnak idea. We are the ideological lighthouse."

Though Dashnak membership numbers in this country are kept secret - leaders will say only that there are between 2,000 and 6,000 members - specialists believe the organization draws much of its strength from thousands of sympathizers who contribute money, attend meetings and read Dashnak-sponsored newspapers. The United States, which strongly supports Armenia, has acknowledged the activities of the Armenian nationalists based in America.

Though the Federal Bureau of Investigation has declined to discuss its involvement in investigating Armenian-Americans, government sources say the agency has looked into at least a handful of cases in which Armenian-Americans were suspected of providing arms to Karabakh. The sources said no charges have been filed. The bureau believed that one, Californian Garo Khakhejian, had been running arms to and from the enclave under the cover of an import-export company, the sources said. Khakhejian was killed on the battlefield in Karabakh in 1993.

Officials acknowledge that sending cash to Karabakh does not violate US law, even though some of that cash is in turn used to purchase arms. But they say Dashnak's activities raise a potentially difficult prospect for Washington and other Western governments. Privately, some officials express fear that a handful of other diaspora groups in the United States - from Ukrainians to Serbs - could take a cue from Dashnak and begin funneling cash and weapons to fuel separatist movements in their own countries. Such a scenario could ultimately undermine US interests as Washington scurries to devise a new policy to deal with dozens of nationalities and ethnic groups sprung free by the collapse of communism.

"Washington is watching Dashnak very closely," said one US official who follows the region.

Passionate defense goes back a century

Passionate defense of the fatherland, or heirenik, is nothing new among the Armenian population. Armenians began forming revolutionary parties more than a century ago. The organizations had predominantly Marxist roots, shaped by what they believed to be an indisputable truth: Turkish oppressors must be brought to justice. It was in this spirit that Dashnak was founded in 1890. From its inception, Dashnak was ultra-secretive, its aims simple and clear: winning freedom for Armenia by whatever means necessary. Throughout the century, Dashnak and other radical Armenian groups have turned to violence. In the 1920s, Nemesis planned and carried out a wave of assassinations of Turks believed responsible for perpetrating the massacres of 1915-1920.

In the 1970s and 1980s, two main Armenian terrorist groups - the Dashnak-affiliated Justice Commandos of the Armenian Genocide (JCAG) and the more radical Beirut-based Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA) - claimed responsibility for bombings and assassinations that killed more than 100 people, both Turks and non-Turks, around the world. In 1982, the violence came to Boston, when ASALA claimed responsibility for gunning down Orhan R. Gunduz, the honorary Turkish consul to New England, in Somerville. Gunduz was not replaced. Since the late 1980s, radical Armenians have been focusing on Karabakh, a cause many of the nationalists believe is as much about avenging the past as it is about determining the future.

Hrair Marukhian, the Iranian-born former Dashnak leader, now in a coma following a stroke last year, told an audience of party faithfuls in Los Angeles in 1992: "We regard Karabakh as our Stalingrad," referring to the pivotal World War II battle that turned the tide for the Soviets in the war against Nazi Germany. ". . . If we compromise Karabakh in any way . . . we will no longer have any chance to present ourselves as the defenders of the Armenian people's rights."

[...]

Nationalist cause exerts strong pull

Though they were brought into the movement for different reasons, the stories of several Armenian-American mercenaries underscore the pull of the nationalist cause for some. Monte Melkonian, a soft-spoken intellectual from Visalia, Calif., grew up knowing little about his heritage. The son of a first generation Armenian-American, Melkonian said he was raised in "the typical assimilated family."

But as a student at the University of California at Berkeley in the late 1970s, Melkonian said he was swept up in a movement to force the Turks to acknowledge the massacres of 1915-1920. In 1978, after graduating with a dual degree in archeology and Asian studies, he turned down a scholarship to study at Oxford, deciding instead that he needed to help the Armenian cause. Melkonian spent the next dozen or so years in Iran and Beirut, where he said he helped defend the city's Armenian enclave against Christian Phalangists.

After serving time in prison in Paris in the mid-1980s for his role in a planned terrorist bombing, Melkonian made his way to Armenia in 1990, eventually heading to Karabakh to take up arms. He spent two years leading a unit in the Karabakh region of Martouni, where he was killed in June 1993, the first American to die on the distant battlefield. In one of his last interviews before his death, Melkonian told the Globe that he recognized the dangers of war, but "when you know your rights have to be guaranteed, often you have to do it yourself."

Los Angeles resident Chahe Ajamian, 31, arrived in Karabakh in early 1992 after spending nearly two years shuttling in uniforms for the enclave's army. Like many of the diaspora fighters, he was born in Beirut, wwould continue to fight to avenge the death of his best friend, Garo Khakhejian, a Fresno, Calif. native who was killed by a sniper bullet in June 1993. "I am not a Rambo," he said. "But I do my best."

Bohigian, the Dashnak leader, said about 40 diaspora Armenians have joined the struggle. The majority of them, he said, are from the Middle East, with about a dozen from the United States. Their presence on the battlefield, by all accounts, has been crucial. In April 1993, Melkonian and a French-Armenian commander were believed to have masterminded the capture of Kelbadjar, a key town in the Azeri-controlled territory that separates the enclave from mainland Armenia, according to a handful of soldiers who took part in the offensive. Kelbadjar was seen by military analysts as the battle that turned the war. Later, Melkonian was credited with the capture of Agdam, a strategic village in Azerbaijan that gave the Armenians their first taste of security.

By most accounts, Dashnak has been funneling weapons and cash to Karabakh since at least 1991. Bohigian boasted that the organization was "the first to get automatic weapons into Karabakh." In a 1992 speech in California, Marukhian said: "We must determine what kinds of weapons exist or don't exist in Karabakh so we can evaluate the struggle."

Dashnak leaders acknowledge that they provide more than $ 3 million a year each year to the enclave, although they say much of that money is used for humanitarian assistance. Karabakh's entire budget for 1994 was $ 4 million, so the foreign assistance is life-saving for the enclave, said Hovig Saliba, president of the California-based Artsakh Fund Committee. Bohigian said much of the aid have gone to helping children of felled fighters, as well as for medicine, food and clothing.

Armenians opposed to Dashnak (like the disgruntled Siamanto types ) dismiss the organization's claims as greatly exaggerated, but Western officials believe Dashnak has provided even more than the organization admits. Most Western experts estimate annual Dashnak contributions at around $ 10 million, most of which they believe is used to prop up the war effort. Because the enclave is so small, though, and because of the relatively low cost of weapons in a region brimming with arms left by the Red Army, even several million dollars can provide a significant boost.

Western officials and specialists believe most of Dashnak money in Karabakh has come from the United States, home of the wealthiest of the diaspora communities. Papazian - who also stressed that aid is used for mainly humanitarian purposes - estimated assistance last year from contributors in the United States at $ 5 million. US and Turkish officials who follow Armenia believe funds are sent through Syria, Lebanon, Russia and France. One government worker in Karabakh, however, said a large portion of the funds arrive directly from Armenian-Americans who hand-carry cash when they travel to the enclave. "When the Dashnaks come, they bring briefcases and envelopes full of dollars," said the worker, who requested anonymity.

On top of the Dashnak money, the experts say, the $ 175 million the Armenian government received in foreign aid last year from Washington helped Yerevan free up other money for the war in Karabakh. As Papazian said: "If Karabakh falls, Armenians in the diaspora will see that as the first stone of Armenia falling. We cannot allow that. We set the mentality that if you want something, you have to fight for it."

[Armenian]

Re: Consequences Of Attacking Iran And Why Tehran Is Not Worried

The three years that I have been here, of the 1500-plus posts that I have made here - only several have been about the ARF. And the several posts in question have usually been made as a reaction to lies and unjust attacks by some members against the ARF.

Siamanto, I strongly suggest you get a life and stop your obsessions towards me. You want to write anti-ARF propaganda? Be my guest, start your own blog and act as stupid as you can. I have said enough about the organization in question in the last relevant post I made. Most probably, your anti-ARF BS is derived from 'traumatic' experiences you must have had as a youngster at the hands of Dashnak kids. There are many of your traumatized kind out there, like the treasonous filth called Levon Ter Petrosian. Thus far, however, your comments about the ARF have been irrational at best, utter lies at worst. As a result, your comments don't even deserve a reply by me. As a matter of fact, I have even stopped reading your obsessive crap.

And do I sense some jealousy, Siamanto jan? I know, I know, Siamanto... Jealousy is also a major factor here as well. I'm flattered...

Nevertheless, you are sounding like one of those Ramgavar type old farts from the Middle East who can't bare the thought of the ARF being a leading power in Artsakh, in Armenia, in the Armenian-American Hai Dat lobby, and in Lebanon. The fact remains - the ARF outsmarted your kind, they out gunned your kind, they out witted your kind, they out performed your kind to be where they are now.

And the only ones that are upset about the ARF's continuing presence and impact upon Armenian society and politics are Turks and.... You guessed it - your kind. In short, Turks and your kind are the onl;y ones that hate the party with a passion. That means your kind and Turks have some fundamental ideological similarities. Bravo!

And yes, Siamanto jan, when it has suited their "party" purpose, the ARF has conspired and collaborated with the Soviets, with the Third Reich, with the USA, with the Kurds, with the Israelis, with the Syrians, with the Iranians, with the Hizbollah, etc. And sometime during the early 70s or the late 60s ARF bureau representatives have even sat down in secret meetings with Turks.

You know why and how they have been able to do all of the above, Siamanto jan? Because they are the only real political party we Armenians have had in the diaspora. They are the only ones with foresight and diplomatic flexibility. They are the only ones in the diaspora with balls. And the aforementioned is why they are a major player in Artsakh and in Armenia. And the aforementioned is why they are the most effective Hai Dat lobby in the US. And the aforementioned is also the reason why they are, in essence, solely representing the Armenian community of Lebanon.

Nevertheless, the question still remains: Where are all the rest in all this?

The ASALA???

You mean the group set up by the KGB? The group that dived head first into PLO's fight against Israel? You mean the paramilitary group that was deliberately killing non-Turks during their terror operations? Let's call it as is. OK? Besides which, unlike the ARF and its numerous subdivisions worldwide the ASALA is not a political organization. Talk is cheep and thus far you have only managed to make yourself look utterly stupid.

You, Siamanto, are most definitely a Cold War relic

[Siamanto]

Re: Consequences Of Attacking Iran And Why Tehran Is Not Worried

The three years that I have been here, of the 1500-plus posts that I have made here - only several have been about the ARF. And the several posts in question have usually been made as a reaction to lies and unjust attacks by some members against the ARF.

What difference does it make?

Siamanto, I suggest you get a life and stop your obsessions towards me. You want to write anti-ARF propaganda, be my guest, start your own blog and act as stupid as you can.

I'm neither pro nor anti Dashnak and never affiliated myself with a political party - Armenian or not - and when it comes to Armenian issues, I'm party agnostic despite my personal political convictions, preferences and orientations; however, this is a public forum and and when I feel relevant, I allow myself to remind the forum of the pointless party propaganda and false information in some of your posts.

If you don't appreciate that the non-flattering aspects of the Dashnaks are mentioned, then cut the pointless and false party propaganda; otherwise, I will continue to express myself when and where I consider that the forum should be informed and the records straightened. Simple enough?

Most probably, your anti-ARF BS is derived from bad experiences you must have had at the hands of Dashnak kids.

Only a bully and/or a deranged mind would state the above: No, witnessing - and/or learning about - criminal conduct and oppressive policies - even when not personally victimized - does not promote respect for the oppressor, and Dashnaks are known for Mafioso style practices.

As a result, your comments don't even deserve a reply. I have even stopped reading your obsessive crap.

My intent is to inform the forum about your false party propaganda and set the records straight, so it is of little importance whether you read them or reply. I assure you that I won't miss reading your emotional and irrelevant replies where you obsessively rant about other Armenian parties that are of no interest to me.

I also sense jealousy... I know, I know, Siamanto... Jealousy is also a major factor here.

Wow! Paranoia, a definite taste for conspiracy theories and signs of megalomania...completing the Psychosis Syndrome????
Emotional imbalance can play tricks on the mind...particularly, the clinically relevant assurance expressed in "I know, I know???"
Jealous of what? Are you losing it?

Thus far, your comments about the ARF have irrational at best, utter lies at worst.

1. I will leave it to the reader to decide whether it was irrational or not; however, I'm afraid that when it comes to irrationality, my posts would be dwarfed by your replies

2. As for the "lies," it seems that presenting documents that suggest that you're obviously misinforming is a "lie?" What a buffoon!
2.1 It seemed relatively easy to find documents that mention the historic alliance of the Dashnak with the Phalange party. Furthermore, many documents suggested that it was also recent, so the Dashnaks just flip-flopped.
2.2 The mentioned oppressive and criminal practices were widespread in the Diaspora and were not limited to the Middle East.

Nevertheless, you are sounding like one of those Ramgavar type old farts from the Middle East who can't bare the thought of the ARF being a leading power in Artsakh, in Armenia, in the Armenian-American Hai Dat lobby, and in Lebanon. The fact remains - the ARF outsmarted your kind, they out gunned your kind, they out witted your kind, they out performed your kind to be where they are now.

You are sounding like someone who lives in a fantasy world and fights with imaginary rivals; because, none of the Armenian parties are of particular interest to me; I support, praise or criticize activities and policies, regardless of parties.
Your obsession with - and animosity towards - other Armenian parties is really unhealthy - to say the least. Furthermore, do you really think that the ARF is not perceived as an oppressive, mafia like organization in Europe or other parts of the Diaspora?

In any case, I believe that I clearly answered the above in a different post by clarifying the perspective, scope and background of my comments. Let me remind the forum:

LOL Abris! Yes, you read it as it was meant: they did hurt the Hay Tad. You need to learn a little about how the Hay Tad evolved since the late 60s in the Diaspora when the mentalities started to change among the younger generations. It seem a bit laughable, to say the least, to take the US as an example where not much happened; at least, not until the relatively recent migration waves from Iran, Lebanon, Armenia etc.? The centers of the struggle were outside the US i.e. Iran, Lebanon, France, Greece, London - mainly Armenian students from Iran and Armenians from Cyprus - etc.
...
As an example, do you think that the recognition of the Armenian Genocide in France was achieved thanks to efforts by the ARF? Wrong, it was achieved despite all efforts by the ARF to destroy and ostracize all the pro-Hay Tad individuals and organizations during the 60s-80s.
There are even individuals who currently serve in the Armenian Government who were ostracized by the ARF. It is well known that the Dashnaks used fascistic methods in the Diaspora.
What happened to the periodical "Yeridasrt Hay?" How many of the founding members of "Nouvelles d'Armenie" were harassed, threatened and/or aggressed by the ARF et.c etc.? Your problem is that you don't seem to see beyond the party propaganda lines.

The ARF joined the struggle in the 80s , probably, after they realized that
1. It gathered momentum despite them and they can't stop it, so better join the movement and, later pretend that they were the sole actors - just like you often do
2. The situation in Artsakh and Armenia was changing

And the only ones that are upset about the ARF's continuing presence and impact upon Armenian society and politics are Turks and.... You guessed it - your kind. In short, Turks and your kind are the onl;y ones that hate the party with a passion. That means your kind and Turks have some fundamental ideological similarities. Bravo!

Wow! Neo-con style argumentation to discredit those who oppose their oppressive and criminal ways, as non-patriots and allies of the enemy???? The difference between bullies like you and the neo-cons is that you're - at this time - on opposite sides of the line; otherwise, you're made of the same hideous substance.

And yes, Siamanto jan, when it has suited their "party" purpose, the ARF has conspired and collaborated with the Soviets, with the Third Reich, with the USA, with the Kurds, with the Israelis, with the Syrians, with the Iranians, with the Hizbollah, etc. And sometime during the early 70s or the late 60s ARF bureau representatives have even sat down in secret meetings with Turks.

You know why and how they have been able to do all of the above, Siamanto jan? Because they are the only real political party we Armenians have had in the diaspora. They are the only ones with foresight and diplomatic flexibility. They are the only ones in the diaspora with balls. And the aforementioned is why they are a major player in Artsakh and in Armenia. And the aforementioned is why they are the most effective Hai Dat lobby in the US. And the aforementioned is also the reason why they are, in essence, solely representing the Armenian community of Lebanon.

1. How and why the above justifies oppressive and criminal practices?
2. The ARF lobby may be more effective in the US on some issues, but that is not the case everywhere; that's not the case in France, LOL maybe that explains why we are far more successful in France than in the US. Isn't that also the case in Russia? I wonder how it is in other countries where Armenian issues are of relevance?

Nevertheless, the question still remains: Where are all the rest in all this?

The ASALA???

You mean the group set up by the KGB? The group that dived head first into PLO's fight against Israel? You mean the paramilitary group that was deliberately killing non-Turks during their terror operations? Let's call it as is. OK? Besides which, unlike the ARF and its numerous subdivisions worldwide the ASALA is not a political organization. Talk is cheep and thus far you have only managed to make yourself look utterly stupid.

If you think that the movement that emerged in the late 60s is represented by the ASALA, then you really need to inform yourself on the history, nature and evolution of Hay Tad during the last decades. ASALA is a relatively late comer and the claim that it was founded by the KGB is nothing but one of the hideous lies spread by the ARF and that was probably introduced in your head by the party brainwashing campaign.

By the way, who claimed that the ASALA was a political organization and, most of all, what is the relevance one way or the other? I mentioned the ASALA, as an example when I said:
"the ASALA is a known such organization and many preceded the ASALA."
In any case, focusing on a single organization i.e. the ASALA is probably an indication that you may know little about the movement mentioned above. Also, your stupid and primitive reasoning about jurks and the fact that they hate the Dashnaks also applies to the ASALA - that is also hated by the jurks.

By the way, I always wondered why do the Dashnaks express such animosity towards the ASALA when they have emulated the latter by putting in place a similar organization? LOL Can it be envy and jealousy - to see it with your mentality - and/or a denial of the failure of their policies?

The facts remain that
1. The ARF ostracized, threatened, physically aggressed all individuals who dared to revive the Hay Tad
2. Made all efforts to censor and/or shut down publications
3. Were the obedient servants of pro-Zionist and pro-American forces
4. Joined the movement only when it gathered momentum and they realized that they could not stop it
5....

Yes, talk is cheap and that's what the ARF does when claiming credits for accomplishments where they had little or negative role.

You, Siamanto, are most definitely a Cold War relic

1. It is amusing that a person who can't see beyond the old rivalry of traditional Armenian parties, calls "Cold War relic" a person who's scope is organizations that came to life recently
2. Some of the documents that I have consulted this morning suggested that their alliance with the Phalange party was recent and they just flip-flopped
3. It is noteworthy that jurks and their Zionists allies use a similar time argument when jurks are reminded of their past crimes?

[Lucin]

Re: Consequences Of Attacking Iran And Why Tehran Is Not Worried

Siamanto, you just turned a single line comment regarding Dashnaks into endless paragraphs of unfair rant and rave… Why??

What you did was nothing like criticism, in my opinion… And you are a party agnostic?? Your severe obsession (and some others) over Dashnaks is just breathtaking…It's neither healthy nor fair, Siamanto. And let me just remind you that Dashnaks also happen to be Armenian, and they also happen to have some good qualities.

You are easily discrediting and undermining their many positive doings in different fronts; both in the Diaspora and the Homeland. Why?
I suggest you open your eyes and not minimize their efforts in maintaining an identity within our pathetic Diaspora, their role and accomplishments for Hay Dat. (to say that they have hurt the Hay Dat is at best laughable.)
Again I suggest you not discard their fundamental role (which has been documented) in Artsakh. Have you asked yourself why Turds are perennially, left and right, whining about Dashnaks and their cutthroat attitude?

Of course, Dashnaks are no saints; like any other parties, groups, or entity, there are hoodlums, bullies and corrupts within the party as you stated, there are many who pretend to be one, but what has all this got to do with Party's core ideology?
And yes, they have made mistakes and admitted to them but the greater the task, the bigger the mistakes…

[Yedtarts]

Re: Consequences Of Attacking Iran And Why Tehran Is Not Worried

Of course, Dashnaks are no saints; like any other parties, groups, or entity, there are hoodlums, bullies and corrupts within the party as you stated, there are many who pretend to be one, but what has all this got to do with Party's core ideology?

I'm 100% with you with this one.
Also, would like to add one thing that most Armenian political parties are infested with freemason.
I know first hand in this matter, in Lebanon I was encouraged to become freemason member by few Tashnag high ranked members (Gomideyi antam)

[Siamanto]

Re: Consequences Of Attacking Iran And Why Tehran Is Not Worried

Lucin,
If your intent was to provide a neutral point of view then, I'm afraid that you have miserably failed; however, I think that your "contribution" would have been more helpful and been perceived as credible, fair, and less hypocritical had you
1. Focused on what I said, instead of what Idid not say
2. Refrained from trying to dishonestly turn things around
3. Practiced what you preached
4. Were a bit less one sided and biased - despite obvious efforts to be moderate
There will be examples of all of the above, later.

Siamanto, you just turned a single line comment regarding Dashnaks into endless paragraphs of unfair rant and rave… Why??

Let's consider the facts:
1. I have invited the forum, in a short post, to the fact that Armenian is obviously misinforming and I labeled it - and still do - "a pointless and false party propaganda." Of course, I did not limit myself to a simple accusation and added an explanation, including a publicly verifiable reference.
2. Armenian, instead of focusing on the content of my text
2.1 Plunged into a psychotic delirium i.e. paranoia and megalomania - I'm carefully choosing my words to be descriptive and clinical
2.2 Later, lost himself into an emotional labyrinth full of obsessions, old rivalry with other traditional parties and a myriad of other chimera that are totally irrelevant in the context of my text and criticism and to me, in general
3. I replied to his irrelevant and relatively long and confused logorrhea, making sure to provide enough details and explanation to the reader; specially when, as reflected by his reply, his thought process seems to be particularly confused, inarticulate and unstructured
Do you think that if he had focused on the text of my criticism, it would have grown so disproportional?

I'm afraid that describing the above sequence of facts as me "turning a single line comment regarding Dashnaks into endless paragraphs of unfair rant and rave" can be easily qualified as biased, unfair, hypocritical and dishonest.

The question that I have to you is:
"Don't you think that your contribution would have been more helpful and credible if only you had limited yourself to refuting my well focused criticism, instead of bringing more water to mill - i.e. focusing on what I did not say - as if my post was meant to be a comprehensive assessment of the ARF and its role?"

What you did was nothing like criticism, in my opinion…

You may call it as you wish, but the fact remains that I have brought to the attention of the reader the reality of the misinformation and, ironically, thanks to Armenian's psychotic logorrhea, I was given the opportunity to bring to the attention of the reader other crimes committed by the ARF against Armenians. LOL Now, you're giving me more opportunities?

And you are a party agnostic? Your severe obsession (and some others) over Dashnaks is just breathtaking…It's neither healthy nor fair, Siamanto.

First of all, don't jurks like exfo, Selpak and...accuse us of "breathtaking, unhealthy, unfair severe obsession" when we recall and mention crimes committed by their people? I'm afraid that the above statement sounds as stupid and hypocritical whether said by a jurk or you.
Do you think that some may find that your hypocrisy "breathtaking, unhealthy and unfair?"

Second of all,
1. Did it occur to you that only the Dashnaks are object of such criticism because,
1.1 At least, in the Diaspora they are the only ones guilty of numerous criminal actions and mafia style oppressive methods in their dealings with other Armenians The ASALA is also guilty of some, but not systematic and negligible compared to the ARF.
1.2 Members of other parties do not deny other organizations' due credit. Please show a sign of fairness and honesty and consider the statements that triggered my posts?
1.3 Members of other parties do not seek the destruction of organizations and individuals that they fail to control: the history of the rebirth of the Hay Tad is full of such examples.
Also, I never appreciated Ter Petrossian - to say the least - and condemned the fact that the ARF was banned, but I found it hideous how the ARF lobbied for sanctions against Armenia just because they were banned, in a much worse manner than the Iranians in exile. That was typical of the ARF.

Do you know other Diaspora organizations guilty of so many criminal actions towards other Armenians? Do you know of other Diaspora organizations driven by such envy and divisive policies?

Most of all, regardless of your perception, I have explained the reason of my intervention; apparently, despite its simplicity, it was not understood, so I will repeat what I told Armenian:

this is a public forum and and when I feel relevant, I allow myself to remind the forum of the pointless party propaganda and false information in some of your posts.

If you don't appreciate that the non-flattering aspects of the Dashnaks are mentioned, then cut the pointless and false party propaganda; otherwise, I will continue to express myself when and where I consider that the forum should be informed and the records straightened. Simple enough?

And let me just remind you that Dashnaks also happen to be Armenian, and they also happen to have some good qualities.

LOL This is funny!
How about those Armenian individuals who were assassinated, ostracized, threatened, physically and morally aggressed by the Dashnaks, weren't they Armenians and didn't they have some good qualities?
I assure you that they had far more good qualities and many think that they were "better" Armenians that the mafioso Dashnaks who victimized them.

You are easily discrediting and undermining their many positive doings in different fronts. Why?

That is an irrelevant and dishonest comment because my intent was not to make a comprehensive assessment of the role and achievements of the ARF; my initial intent was to set the records straight on a specific issue and, in a later post and thanks to Armenian, I was given the chance to discuss their negative role in the rebirth of the Hay Tad in the 60s.

In any case, in my reply to Armenian, I have said:
"1. How and why the above justifies oppressive and criminal practices?"

I suggest you open your eyes and not minimize their efforts in maintaining an identity within our pathetic Diaspora, their role and accomplishments for Hay Dat.
....
Again I suggest you not discard their fundamental role (which has been documented) in Artsakh.

Considering that my initial posts were triggered by the fact that a pro Dashnak propaganda aimed at minimizing the efforts and role of other Armenian organizations and individual; the way you are trying to turn the situation around seems dishonest.

Also, "I suggest that you open your eyes" and realize that
1. As I said above, my intent was not a comprehensive assessment of the role of the ARF and their accomplishments and my focus was well defined - both in scope and time
2. Other Armenian organizations and individuals had comparable or more accomplishments
3. If you want to be perceived as credible and less hypocritical, you should practice what you preach when Dashnaks minimize the role and achievements of other organizations
4. Nobody denied their role, it was important but far from being fundamental in the Artsakh war and negative during the most crucial years of the rebirth of the Hay Tad in the 60s-70s
5. The role of others in Artsakh is also documented; where is your sense of fairness and decency when Dashnaks minimize or totally deny their role?

(to say that they have hurt the Hay Dat is at best laughable.)

I have clarified the reasons why I stated that they have hurt the Hay Tad; if your knowledge of the rebirth of Hay Tad in the 60s and it's evolution suggests otherwise, then feel free to refute my version. Talk is cheap!

Have you asked yourself why Turds are perennially, left and right, whining about Dashnaks and their cutthroat attitude?

"Have you asked yourself why" so many Armenians rightfully decry the atrocities of the "Dashnaks and their cutthroat attitude?"
The same answers both questions.

Also, the jurks hate the ASALA for the same reasons, "Have you asked yourself why" why the Dashnaks expressed such animosity - to say the least - and still do towards the ASALA? Is it because of the usual Dashnak policy of destroy what you can't control?

Of course, Dashnaks are no saints; like any other parties, groups, or entity, there are hoodlums, bullies and corrupts within the party as you stated, there are many who pretend to be one,

That is true but no other party, of the Diaspora, is guilty of as many hideous crimes against other Armenians.
Do you know other Diaspora organizations guilty of so many criminal actions towards other Armenians? Do you know of other Diaspora organizations driven by such envy and divisive policies?

but what has all this got to do with Party's core ideology?

Your comment is irrelevant and makes no sense, in the context, because, at no time, it was about ARF's ideology; it was about their practices and policies. In any case, what ideology could mean when opportunism, "destroy what you can't control" mindset and flip-flopping dictate the policies?

And yes, they have made mistakes and admitted to them but the greater the task, the bigger the mistakes…

The task of other Armenians was as great, yet they did not assassinate, ostracize, aggress and humiliate other Armenians.