Gossip - an ever-present element of life?

[Siamanto]

Re: Gossip - an ever-present element of life?

Hey Everyone,

I have some gossip for you...you'll never believe this!

Just the other day, I got a PM from a well-liked and very influential person on this forum (I won't mention names, but he specializes in Russian studies - I think you know him).
Anyway, he told me that he heard from another guy on this forum whose brother's cousin's friend's schoolmate said that Siamanto has a GED and she compensates for her superfluous existance by clinging to a thesaurus and popping prozac.

Don't tell anyone you heard this from me, though. It would just crush Siamanto if this got out.

We should thank "g@nig Hasan" - a.k.a. crusader1492 - for this "valuable" contribution, as it provides us with more examples of gossip as reference for our discussions. The "significance" of the contribution should not be underestimated, as it tells us about
- The kind of gossip that is popular within the members of a socio-cultural class - commonly called "vulgar riiffraff and low lives" - where gossip is an essential part of the daily life and "mental" activities
- How they naively think that we all deal with difficulties of life the way they i.e. with the help of drugs like prozac and gossip. (One can't blame them because that's all they know, and any other approach would be beyond their mental capabilities)
- How they end up confusing between reality and wishes, aspiration, gossip. (I wonder if such a confusion helps them in dealing with their handicaps, or does it, in the long term, further aggravates the situation?)
- Their perception of the meaning of diplomas and/or the educational system

P.S. "G@nig Hasan" is an Armenian expression used when referring to males who enjoy to spend their time gossiping.

[Inthemood]

Re: Gossip - an ever-present element of life?

I think it's an inevitability that gossip will occur, as we must at times talk about other people, idly or not.

However, I do believe that within this framework the differences are in degrees (not kinds). And so, you have some people more prone to gossip than others (e.g., women, kids, old folks, etc.)

Why must we talk about people? Why can't we talk about science or movies or literature?

It's true women are more prone to gossip, although I am confused about the kids thrown in the mix, and I wonder why. I have known people who never-ever gossip (I think gossip has more of a negative overtone), it seems that they like just about anyone. When someone has done wrong by them, they just ignore it, they never pass judgment. I think it's admirable in some way, but it's a little disturbing at times. How much do they hold in, how does their sense of morality and tolerance work.

I have to admit I do gossip, and at times a little more than I should, but I am just as quick to confront someone for their behavior. For example, I get very upset with my friends husband, who I feel doesn't treat her right. I complain to my other friends about him, but it often becomes excessive and I feel badly about my gossip.

I don't really understand the need to gossip. Is it because we don't find our life as exciting? Is it because we are unhappy, is it because we want attention, or are afraid to appear boring? Some people who gossip excessively don't really have anything else to talk about, I suppose they are afraid that without gossip they will be very boring individuals.

[Inthemood]

Re: Gossip - an ever-present element of life?

If it is possible to avoid gossiping, then it must be avoided. I don't like the idea of gossiping about people especially if it's insulting remarks or anything negative. It can't be avoided all together but people should restrict themselves to stop gossiping. Sitting around and gossiping the whole time is completely unncessary and annoying.

You stated "If it is possible to avoid gossiping..," so can I assume that you are doubtful of that possibility? You never gossip?

I agree, sitting and gossiping all the time is absurd, however, as I stated in my response to Anon, some people probably feel that without gossip they are not worth spending time with. Gossip is always sensational, and we know that human nature loves sensational stories.

I mean, look at our television, or European and Japanese media, they love celebrity gossip. The trashy tabloids sell out like hot cakes.

And here is a question for you. Many who claim that gossiping is bad, feel comfortable degrading politicians, athletes and pop-stars. For some reason that's not really considered gossip, not the kind that would label you a malicious gossiper among your friends. Why is that?

[Inthemood]

Re: Gossip - an ever-present element of life?

If it's done occasionally - i.e. a sentence or two every two weeks, a month, or less frequently - and without ill will, would it be considered "never?" If yes, then it's possible.

I would have asked: "Do the right people gossip?"

Well, it's good to know, but I've asked exactly what I wanted to ask, because your paraphrasing changes the meaning of my question.

Your question puzzles me, as gossip may be - and often is??? - a measure of the lack of it.
I would have asked: "How 'genuine and interesting' a person who "regularly/frequently" gossips can be?"

Here you just paraphrased the question, I am not sure what the point of doing so was, but I suppose it's a grammatical fine-tuning. Although, I didn't really ask a hypothetical question, I wanted to know if any of you know anyone who is, not "if it's possible." But thanks for your suggested adjustments.

[Inthemood]

Re: Gossip - an ever-present element of life?

No comments!
P.S. Also, it's possible to talk about others with an effort of objectivity and fairness, all it takes is courage and integrity.

What exactly does that mean? If you are stating something very negative but true about a person's behavior/character, regardless of your courage and integrity you are still most likely gossiping.

[Inthemood]

Re: Gossip - an ever-present element of life?

Hey Everyone,

I have some gossip for you...you'll never believe this!

Just the other day, I got a PM from a well-liked and very influential person on this forum (I won't mention names, but he specializes in Russian studies - I think you know him).
Anyway, he told me that he heard from another guy on this forum whose brother's cousin's friend's schoolmate said that Siamanto has a GED and she compensates for her superfluous existance by clinging to a thesaurus and popping prozac.

Don't tell anyone you heard this from me, though. It would just crush Siamanto if this got out.

With all of my objectivity, I don't think that there is anything wrong with GEDs, thesaurus is a great way to expand our vocabulary, but with some courage I will have to disagree and say that crack is better than prozac.

[Inthemood]

Re: Gossip - an ever-present element of life?

The first step to gossiping is talking about someone in the third person. I think the rest flows naturally once we seek entertainment with this aspect of our language faculty.

Ok, but did this really answer any of my questions?

[Siamanto]

Re: Gossip - an ever-present element of life?

If it's done occasionally - i.e. a sentence or two every two weeks, a month, or less frequently - and without ill will, would it be considered "never?" If yes, then it's possible.

I would have asked: "Do the right people gossip?"

Well, it's good to know, but I've asked exactly what I wanted to ask, because your paraphrasing changes the meaning of my question.

For the record: I was not paraphrasing - i.e. ask the same question in different words; I asked a different, though somehow related, question.
I asked my own question, because I did not consider your post as a questionnaire, but an invitation to a brainstorming session - two different Language Games, "Language Game" as defined by Wittgenstein.

Your question puzzles me, as gossip may be - and often is??? - a measure of the lack of it.
I would have asked: "How 'genuine and interesting' a person who "regularly/frequently" gossips can be?"

Here you just paraphrased the question, I am not sure what the point of doing so was, but I suppose it's a grammatical fine-tuning. Although, I didn't really ask a hypothetical question, I wanted to know if any of you know anyone who is, not "if it's possible." But thanks for your suggested adjustments.

One may - or may not - consider my question as nothing but a paraphrase, but the intent was to suggest an answer by asking it differently; the interrogative form was, if not rhetorical, stylistic.

I think it's an inevitability that gossip will occur, as we must at times...And...some people more prone to gossip than others (e.g., women, kids, old folks, etc.)

No comments!
P.S. Also, it's possible to talk about others with an effort of objectivity and fairness, all it takes is courage and integrity.

What exactly does that mean? If you are stating something very negative but true about a person's behavior/character, regardless of your courage and integrity you are still most likely gossiping.

As I see it, "stating something very negative but true about a person's behavior/character" is not necessarily gossiping, because
1- In a conversation/verbal communication, beyond the meaning of the words, there's a Language Game; for instance, in certain situations, a woman who asks a man - or vice versa: "What time is it?" or "Do you have a cigarette?" she may mean: "I would like to start a conversation with you," or "I like you" or...
2- Words have "descriptive value/connotations," besides their "normative value/connotations" - i.e. negative, positive etc. - that varies depending on the Language Game

A prosecutor, a judge stating/describing the criminal behavior of a criminal may not be gossiping; a friend stating/describing our shortcomings, depending on the context/Language Game, may not be gossiping; a teacher stating/describing the shortcomings of a student may not be gossiping; a psychologist stating/describing the emotional instability and disorders of a person may not be gossiping etc. etc.

If gossip should include anything that may have "negative" connotations - that is cultural dependent - than the extent of the word "gossip" may become too large, and, as a consequence, lose some selectivity/meaning????

In view of the above, I believe that an effort of objectivity and fairness - that requires courage and integrity - may make the difference between gossip and a different Language Game.

[One-Way]

Re: Gossip - an ever-present element of life?

You stated "If it is possible to avoid gossiping..," so can I assume that you are doubtful of that possibility? You never gossip?

I agree, sitting and gossiping all the time is absurd, however, as I stated in my response to Anon, some people probably feel that without gossip they are not worth spending time with. Gossip is always sensational, and we know that human nature loves sensational stories.

I mean, look at our television, or European and Japanese media, they love celebrity gossip. The trashy tabloids sell out like hot cakes.

And here is a question for you. Many who claim that gossiping is bad, feel comfortable degrading politicians, athletes and pop-stars. For some reason that's not really considered gossip, not the kind that would label you a malicious gossiper among your friends. Why is that?

I am doubtful because everybody gossips, even I, but there are certain limits.

Ask for your question, here is my answer -- gossiping about pop stars and athletes is one thing. These people are celebrities, their lives are entertainment to many across the world. It would be impossible to not speak about them, whether positive or negative. Speaking about someone who you personally know and trashing them is another thing. Believe it or not, I don't gossip about celebrities or politicians and I try my best to avoid gossip of people I know.

[Siamanto]

Re: Gossip - an ever-present element of life?

With all of my objectivity, I don't think that there is anything wrong with GEDs, thesaurus is a great way to expand our vocabulary, but with some courage I will have to disagree and say that crack is better than prozac.

For the record: As I see it,
1- The factuality of crusader1492's post - i.e. whether the fact that the actual gossiping happened or not
2- The veracity of the elements that constitute the gossip - i.e. GED, thesaurus, prozac
Are of secondary importance to our conversation.

While - without drilling drown into details:
1- The Why: Why some gossip - or feel the need to do so - "behind the back?" Is it to reassure themselves by asserting imaginary "facts" about what is perceived as an unfriendly/enemy/threat? Is it a form of "throwing a spell???"
2- The How: How they fabricate a gossip with elements of their own world and/or perception(s) of the world, and how the gossip reflect their perception of the world and values
Are of relevance.