Praying man let his daughter die

[Eddo211]

Re: Praying man let his daughter die

Canadians:[/COLOR] “This is a lighthouse. Your Call”

Americans: "I suggest evacuating the lighthouse."

"You can’t get lard unless you boil the hog and if you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do it stop diggin………..remember a small ass just don’t fit in a saddle."

[Behelit]

Re: Praying man let his daughter die

He prays God and clearly has faith in him but this guy really don't understand God. Really sad for that little girl. At least she will not see how the world goes down.

[Crimson Glow]

Re: Praying man let his daughter die

Sounds like another American idiot using God to protect his own stupidity. Although I also think that it's his daughter and she is not the property of government.... oh wait... I guess she is the property of government.

It is not an issue of the daughter being property of the government. The point here is that she's not property, period. A parent is responsible for the survival of a child (providing food, shelter, clothing, education, etc), and that is all. You cannot go around brainwashing your kid with unsubstantiated beliefs, let alone letting your own personal beliefs dictate whether your obligation of your child's survival is fulfilled, or not. This child died needlessly because of the parent's personal beliefs. If anything, the government would have SAVED her life had they known about it prior to her death, and stepped in/intervened.

If the loss of his daughter isn't enough punishment then that's enough proof that he's a fake and a phony. I don't think they deserve jail time.... while O.J. was free.

I assure you her daughter's death is NOT enough. Come on, man. You're not that oblivious to how the super religious think. A truly religious person will not become skeptical of his faith over something like this, other than perhaps some who will reject god out of spite/anger because they are so emotionally overcome by the loss. He did his part. He prayed while wholeheartedly having faith in his god. The fact that she died is not a testament that his god is false. Remember, "the lord works in mysterious ways". If the child dies, that was "god's will". If anything, this is just another "test of faith".

He absolutely deserves jail time for this. It is important to make examples out of such people so that they understand that while this country gives you the right to religion, it does NOT give you the right to force or impose your religious views upon others. I'm willing to bet you'd feel the same if it had been your niece that died at the hands of your uncles "faith".

He prays God and clearly has faith in him but this guy really don't understand God.

Actually, if you think what he did was wrong from a Christian standpoint, it is you who doesn't understand "god". See the above paragraph.

If you reject God when He provides you with doctors galore, there is no hope and you will pay dearly for your choice.

God didn't provide the religious with doctors. That would be like saying "god gave us plastic surgeons, so why not use them" (which is literally something Joan Rivers said), even though vanity is a sin, let alone vanity that goes so far as to permanently restructure your "god given" appearance. There are many things man has done and created which go against god. Doctors are a result of science, and science is an enemy of god. It is man playing god by dictating who lives and dies. That goes completely against those who wish to leave it in their god's hands, as their faith/god requires. What this person did is absolutely the right thing according to his faith/the word of god.

Pretty much, although I'm surprised this isn't a story out of Texas

There are far, FAR more religious countries than the US. In fact, despite being a "Christian nation", religion plays very little role in the day to day lives of the average Americans, where as it's a pretty significant part of life in many other countries. At least here, the fanatical live in small pockets that can easily be avoided if you don't want to be Bible thumped.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Praying man let his daughter die

It is not an issue of the daughter being property of the government. The point here is that she's not property, period. A parent is responsible for the survival of a child (providing food, shelter, clothing, education, etc), and that is all. You cannot go around brainwashing your kid with unsubstantiated beliefs, let alone letting your own personal beliefs dictate whether your obligation of your child's survival is fulfilled, or not. This child died needlessly because of the parent's personal beliefs. If anything, the government would have SAVED her life had they known about it prior to her death, and stepped in/intervened.

Doesn't this come from the government? Food, shelter, clothing, education? Look at the unemployment rate, don't you think the government could create jobs and funnel money down to citizens if they wanted to? Come on now. Everything is under control. Most of the jobs that were lost were artificial in nature... positions made up for the sake of creating jobs. You can't fish/hunt without a license... you can't do anything to survive on your own.

It is not an issue of the daughter being property of the government. The point here is that she's not property, period. A parent is responsible for the survival of a child (providing food, shelter, clothing, education, etc), and that is all. You cannot go around brainwashing your kid with unsubstantiated beliefs, let alone letting your own personal beliefs dictate whether your obligation of your child's survival is fulfilled, or not. This child died needlessly because of the parent's personal beliefs. If anything, the government would have SAVED her life had they known about it prior to her death, and stepped in/intervened.

They brought the child into the world, if the child died because the parent was dumb, that's just survival of the fittest. I'm tired of the government/lawyers intervening in everyone's business. There are also instances where people die because of medical intervention, improper diagnosis, etc. That's a case where the doctor was negligent or off his/her game. They get a lawsuit, they don't get prison time. Nothing will bring that child back to life, it should end there. There is no point in punishing someone who inflicted pain to their own life.... with negligence to the person whom they gave life to. Besides, it's tax money again going towards prisons, court rooms, lawyers. Keep them out of prison and make them work... sheesh.

There are far, FAR more religious countries than the US. In fact, despite being a "Christian nation", religion plays very little role in the day to day lives of the average Americans, where as it's a pretty significant part of life in many other countries. At least here, the fanatical live in small pockets that can easily be avoided if you don't want to be Bible thumped.

I agree, the US is far from a "Christian nation". However, the pockets of bible thumpers are not teaching the same mindset that our ancestors carried from generation to generation. There are no Christian nations left, they are all secular.

Although I disagree with the "religion plays very little role in the day to day lives of the average Americans", if you take a look at the media (CNN, FOX, etc.), they report stories with very religious overtones from biblical excerpts/points of view. Even the above story is just for political show.

"She died of a treatable disease - undiagnosed diabetes - at home in rural Wisconsin in March last year, as people surrounded her and prayed."

Undiagnosed diabetes isn't treatable... it's only treatable after it's been diagnosed. He probably couldn't afford to take the kid to the doctor and made up the whole God thing. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

[Crimson Glow]

Re: Praying man let his daughter die

Doesn't this come from the government? Food, shelter, clothing, education? Look at the unemployment rate, don't you think the government could create jobs and funnel money down to citizens if they wanted to? Come on now. Everything is under control. Most of the jobs that were lost were artificial in nature... positions made up for the sake of creating jobs. You can't fish/hunt without a license... you can't do anything to survive on your own.

....what are you talking about? What does any of that have to do with parental obligations and responsibilities? The parents are directly responsible for ensuring the survival of their children in any capacity which they can control. Not taking your child to the hospital because YOU believed hokes pokes magic was going to save your child is something that was well within the control of the parents. It's called negligence. It has absolutely nothing to do with the government, or what's wrong with its policies, unless you're suggesting that you have a right to kill your child/let him/her die, and the government shouldn't infringe on that right.

They brought the child into the world, if the child died because the parent was dumb, that's just survival of the fittest.

No....if the PARENT died because the parent is dumb, THAT'S survival of the fittest. How does the child dying from someone elses stupidity equate to survival of the fittest?

Undiagnosed diabetes isn't treatable... it's only treatable after it's been diagnosed. He probably couldn't afford to take the kid to the doctor and made up the whole God thing. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

That's the whole point. It was only untreated BECAUSE it was undiagnosed, and the only reason it was undiagnosed is because the dad didn't take the girl to the hospital. The point they're making is, had he done what any normal parent would have done (taken her to the hospital immediately with symptoms like "can't talk or walk", which goes well beyond the usual "I'm not feeling well today"), it would have EASILY been diagnosed, and treated. Basically, the child STUPIDLY died due to something that was easily preventable. Bible thumpers trash on abortion all the time because every life is precious, and important. I'd love to see what they have to say about the loss of THIS life, seeing as to the ridiculous circumstances this child died under.

BTW, if you think there's a good possibility he was making up the "betting on god" part up, isn't that all the more reason to send his ass to jail? That makes him a straight up murderer.

Although I disagree with the "religion plays very little role in the day to day lives of the average Americans", if you take a look at the media (CNN, FOX, etc.), they report stories with very religious overtones from biblical excerpts/points of view. Even the above story is just for political show.

Yes, but I mean on a day-to-day basis, no one gives god a second thought in this country. If you were to ask someone at point blank range whether the believe in god, obviously most of them would say "duh! of course"! But that's the end of it. That's the extent of their "religiousness". Beyond that, they go about drinking till they puke, trying to do as little work as possible for the pay, having affairs, and a plethora of other sins without once thinking about what they're doing even being sins, or paying attention to the fact that the god they believe in is "watching them 24/7". How the news skews a report is irrelevant to how people behave on a regular basis.

Nothing will bring that child back to life, it should end there. There is no point in punishing someone who inflicted pain to their own life.... with negligence to the person whom they gave life to.

Obviously nothing will bring her back. If we use that mentality, then why punish ANYone? Again, try to picture this happening to your niece. Would you be playing the same tune if someone you knew and loved from your family was the victim of this kind of stupidity? Just let the uncle live with the fact that he caused your nieces death for a really STUPID, easily preventable reason?? Or would you go over there and kill him yourself?

Another thing to look at. Would you be saying the same thing if the daughter's death was the result of anything other than a belief in god? Had the father got drunk, and ran over the child while pulling into the driveway, would you still be saying it's punishment enough that he inflicted pain on himself by flattening his kid with some steel belted radials?

I think it's safe to say you're feeling very defensive about the dad's case because it revolves around a belief in god. You're looking at them imprisoning this guy as some sort of infringement on his right to a belief in god. That's not the case at all. Most people look at freedom of religion as "don't fuck with me, I'm free to believe in my god", and it does. However, the aspect they don't look at it from is it also means freedom from having your beliefs forced upon others, which is what this parent basically tried to do by leaving the life or death of the child he's responsible for "in the hands of god". And for THAT, he must be punished.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Praying man let his daughter die

....what are you talking about? What does any of that have to do with parental obligations and responsibilities? The parents are directly responsible for ensuring the survival of their children in any capacity which they can control. Not taking your child to the hospital because YOU believed hokes pokes magic was going to save your child is something that was well within the control of the parents. It's called negligence. It has absolutely nothing to do with the government, or what's wrong with its policies, unless you're suggesting that you have a right to kill your child/let him/her die, and the government shouldn't infringe on that right.

The way a nation is governed affects society indirectly. Some parents feel their kids are a burden because they live in poverty. If the government cared (yeah right), they would ensure the basics a kid needs is provided. Ever pay health insurance for an entire family? It's extremely overwhelming. France used to pay people to have children so they would increase the population. Unfortunately, the way the "wealthy" nations function, they don't need to worry about a lack of population.... they just immigrate people from the "3rd world" nations.

Obviously nothing will bring her back. If we use that mentality, then why punish ANYone? Again, try to picture this happening to your niece. Would you be playing the same tune if someone you knew and loved from your family was the victim of this kind of stupidity? Just let the uncle live with the fact that he caused your nieces death for a really STUPID, easily preventable reason?? Or would you go over there and kill him yourself?

The question is... are these types of people a threat to society? They aren't going to stop other people from seeking medical attention for their sick child. That's where the survival of the fittest comes in. Darwinism. Yes, we all b!tch and complain when something like this happens, but we live in a society where we wouldn't even give another person 10 bucks to feed their kid.... everyone fends for themselves.

Why DO we punish ANYone? Who makes the laws? Do we vote as a democracy to create laws? No, we're just born into a society where the laws already exist. We don't make the rules, we just have to play by them.

And I can't answer the "Or would you go over there and kill him yourself?" for obvious reasons, lol.

Yes, but I mean on a day-to-day basis, no one gives god a second thought in this country. If you were to ask someone at point blank range whether the believe in god, obviously most of them would say "duh! of course"! But that's the end of it. That's the extent of their "religiousness". Beyond that, they go about drinking till they puke, trying to do as little work as possible for the pay, having affairs, and a plethora of other sins without once thinking about what they're doing even being sins, or paying attention to the fact that the god they believe in is "watching them 24/7". How the news skews a report is irrelevant to how people behave on a regular basis.

I don't think I could have put it better myself. The money and reward system has a lot to do with this. Sometimes crime pays.... really well. For example, if you were in position to have an affair and get away with half of everything your spouse owned and then jump onto the next marriage on top of it, why would you think twice? Seems like a no brainer.

Another thing to look at. Would you be saying the same thing if the daughter's death was the result of anything other than a belief in god? Had the father got drunk, and ran over the child while pulling into the driveway, would you still be saying it's punishment enough that he inflicted pain on himself by flattening his kid with some steel belted radials?

My view wouldn't change, I think I recall cases where insanity pleas worked for people that killed their kids because "the devil told them to do it". Not just one child but 3 or 4 of them.

I think it's safe to say you're feeling very defensive about the dad's case because it revolves around a belief in god. You're looking at them imprisoning this guy as some sort of infringement on his right to a belief in god. That's not the case at all. Most people look at freedom of religion as "don't xxxx with me, I'm free to believe in my god", and it does. However, the aspect they don't look at it from is it also means freedom from having your beliefs forced upon others, which is what this parent basically tried to do by leaving the life or death of the child he's responsible for "in the hands of god". And for THAT, he must be punished.

I don't know anyone who went to an educational institution which teaches religion and learned this type of "belief".

I'm not defensive about his case, I just don't think the rest of us should have to pay taxes so this idiot can be kept alive rotting in jail. 25 yrs? he'd be like 70 when he got out. Either make him shovel sh!t for 12 hours a day or give him the chair.

[Crimson Glow]

Re: Praying man let his daughter die

The way a nation is governed affects society indirectly. Some parents feel their kids are a burden because they live in poverty. If the government cared (yeah right), they would ensure the basics a kid needs is provided. Ever pay health insurance for an entire family? It's extremely overwhelming. France used to pay people to have children so they would increase the population. Unfortunately, the way the "wealthy" nations function, they don't need to worry about a lack of population.... they just immigrate people from the "3rd world" nations.

You're talking about a totally different subject. If parents feel their kids are a burden, they should have thought that over BEFORE they had kids. I'm tired of parents realizing they don't want kids (for a multitude of reasons, from just not wanting the responsibility, to not being able to afford them) only AFTER they have them. See, I KNOW it costs a small fortune to even raise ONE child, let alone 2, or 3 or more. That's why I have no burning desire to have kids. It's not the government's job to provide for children simply because they can't afford to provide for children they voluntarily decided to have. You're still talking about allowing parents to shirk their responsibilities.

The question is... are these types of people a threat to society? They aren't going to stop other people from seeking medical attention for their sick child. That's where the survival of the fittest comes in. Darwinism. Yes, we all b!tch and complain when something like this happens, but we live in a society where we wouldn't even give another person 10 bucks to feed their kid.... everyone fends for themselves.

But that opinion hinges on the perception that this will be a one time offense. These are the same types of freaks trying to get certain laws changed because they're "anti-Christian", or trying to get certain rights taken away from people because "they go against the Bible", etc. So yes, in a way, I DO find them a threat to society. If someone is willing to go this far (to leave the fate of their child in the hands of a supposed invisible almighty creator), I highly doubt the lengths of his stupidity end there. There needs to be a strong message sent that pushing your beliefs on others is not acceptable behavior.

Again, survival of the fittest doesn't really factor into this account. Someone innocent who had nothing to do with the way this man thinks died due to HIS stupidity. Survival of the fittest dictates that the least fit will die, in this case, the ignorant. Well the ignorant is alive and well. His ignorance merely caused someone ELSE to not survive. That is the problem with stupidity. All too often, it kills the wrong people (i.e. drunk drivers, careless people in the workplace, etc). So we need some kind of protection from stupidity.

And why SHOULDN'T we fend for ourselves? Why would you or I be responsible for someone elses obligations? I don't ask anyone for help financially, and I sure as hell don't want anyone expecting help from me. The vast majority of the types of people you're talking about are deadbeats looking for free handouts. There are those that are down on their luck, and have just fallen on hard times, but they're in the minority. For the majority, there's no reason these people can't get a job, or better their lives. What you're talking about is rewarding deadbeats. Dammit, Andre, don't become a bleeding heart liberal!

Why DO we punish ANYone? Who makes the laws? Do we vote as a democracy to create laws? No, we're just born into a society where the laws already exist. We don't make the rules, we just have to play by them....I'm not defensive about his case, I just don't think the rest of us should have to pay taxes so this idiot can be kept alive rotting in jail. 25 yrs? he'd be like 70 when he got out. Either make him shovel sh!t for 12 hours a day or give him the chair.

The rules are there so there is some kind of guideline for the average accepted morality and decency. Are you seriously suggesting we shouldn't have laws in place against murder, rape, theft, etc? If anything, we need stricter punishments rather than the slaps on the wrist so many get for even harsh crimes. This "give them a 2nd....or 3rd....or 14th chance" mentality is what's turned this nation into a festering cesspool of criminals. They know they can get away with quite a bit, as they'll be let off with a "warning", or "probation", and even if they go to prison, they can get out early on "good behavior". How is that supposed to deter someone? Just imagine how much less crime there would be here if we were as strict as they are in some other nations, like say Japan. No one dares spit their gum out there, let alone throw their trash out the car window in broad daylight.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Praying man let his daughter die

You're talking about a totally different subject. If parents feel their kids are a burden, they should have thought that over BEFORE they had kids. I'm tired of parents realizing they don't want kids (for a multitude of reasons, from just not wanting the responsibility, to not being able to afford them) only AFTER they have them. See, I KNOW it costs a small fortune to even raise ONE child, let alone 2, or 3 or more. That's why I have no burning desire to have kids. It's not the government's job to provide for children simply because they can't afford to provide for children they voluntarily decided to have. You're still talking about allowing parents to shirk their responsibilities.

Am I? If the law says that you are to provide health care for your child when you don't have the money, wouldn't someone in a poor financial situation avoid getting medical attention when their kid gets sick? They can pray all they want, it's not going to make them wealthy.

But that opinion hinges on the perception that this will be a one time offense. These are the same types of freaks trying to get certain laws changed because they're "anti-Christian", or trying to get certain rights taken away from people because "they go against the Bible", etc. So yes, in a way, I DO find them a threat to society. If someone is willing to go this far (to leave the fate of their child in the hands of a supposed invisible almighty creator), I highly doubt the lengths of his stupidity end there. There needs to be a strong message sent that pushing your beliefs on others is not acceptable behavior.

I don't think this guy is in any position or power to have the laws changed. If the laws were "Christian" the medical services and hospitals would still be an entity of the church and not a private run business.

Again, survival of the fittest doesn't really factor into this account. Someone innocent who had nothing to do with the way this man thinks died due to HIS stupidity. Survival of the fittest dictates that the least fit will die, in this case, the ignorant. Well the ignorant is alive and well. His ignorance merely caused someone ELSE to not survive. That is the problem with stupidity. All too often, it kills the wrong people (i.e. drunk drivers, careless people in the workplace, etc). So we need some kind of protection from stupidity.

If you don't have the right to make decisions for your child and can be trumped by the government... then the kids really aren't yours are they? I'm not claiming the parent(s) made good decisions in this case but nevertheless, it should be theirs to make. I know people who refuse blood transfusions because they don't trust the blood to be screened properly... yet sometimes the media turns it into a "religious" thing. By law, when you die, you are survived by your children. They are most likely the only footprint that you leave in this world when you're gone. So they are part of your survival.

And why SHOULDN'T we fend for ourselves? Why would you or I be responsible for someone elses obligations? I don't ask anyone for help financially, and I sure as hell don't want anyone expecting help from me. The vast majority of the types of people you're talking about are deadbeats looking for free handouts. There are those that are down on their luck, and have just fallen on hard times, but they're in the minority. For the majority, there's no reason these people can't get a job, or better their lives. What you're talking about is rewarding deadbeats. Dammit, Andre, don't become a bleeding heart liberal! .

All I'm saying is we already live in a society full of deadbeats because governments already make most of the decisions for everyone. The more power they grab, the less choices and decisions we get to make.... leaving us more and more powerless. It works for stupid people because they don't want to think anyways but it leaves the rest of us stuck dealing with idiots on a daily basis.

The rules are there so there is some kind of guideline for the average accepted morality and decency. Are you seriously suggesting we shouldn't have laws in place against murder, rape, theft, etc? If anything, we need stricter punishments rather than the slaps on the wrist so many get for even harsh crimes. This "give them a 2nd....or 3rd....or 14th chance" mentality is what's turned this nation into a festering cesspool of criminals. They know they can get away with quite a bit, as they'll be let off with a "warning", or "probation", and even if they go to prison, they can get out early on "good behavior". How is that supposed to deter someone? Just imagine how much less crime there would be here if we were as strict as they are in some other nations, like say Japan. No one dares spit their gum out there, let alone throw their trash out the car window in broad daylight.

If you take a look at the definitions of most existing laws, they were made so long ago that they no longer make sense in modern society. Take these athletes getting rape charges for instance... if you were a single woman inviting say Mike Tyson or Kobe Bryant up to your hotel room in the middle of the night, what were you expecting to happen? A nice chat with some tea and biscuits? Laws wouldn't help out in America because the society is based on liberal ideas and the laws are very conservative... which is why nearly half the U.S. born citizens have some sort of criminal record and can't leave the country. A lot of the youth have no other path in life and need to join the military for discipline.