Atheism and being Armenian

[jgk3]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Sheesh Jeff! That's fascinating about the shift. I only recently heard about this shift, but that it's not clear what caused it. Thanks so much for explaining it so thoroughly. I'm going to chew on the information a bit.

Science monster! Oogabooga! I'm really quite intimidating and frightening... If I make it out to your neck of the woods (maybe picking up Anna on the way ), you'll have to see for yourself. If you're not too scared, that is. You never know, I may be executing a diabolical plan to sell you to a pharmaceutical company as a human guinea pig.

As for the other science stuff. I don't know... You're trying to point out the limitations in theory, but honestly, when I say I live by that standard, clearly I'm not saying I conduct an experiment for everything. What I mean is taking an evidence-based approach. Before I make up my mind about something or make a decision, etc. I want to be informed, and I seek evidence to inform the opinion, decision, etc. That's it. You can always seek evidence in this way.

There are sciences where they're not conducting experiments. They're making predictions (based on what is already established by prior research or you have to make a really strong case for it based on logic if it's not been addressed in the literature or it's not supported by it) and then seeking evidence, gathering observations, etc. and examining whether it negates their hypothesis. If the evidence is not inconsistent with the null hypothesis (we always seek to disprove our hypotheses) and it is consistent with the research hypothesis, then we confirm it.

In the case of things that are not observable, then they're really thought experiments, but you still apply logic. Given what we know about the world, is it plausible that this would be like this....
Perhaps it would be more helpful to discuss it non-abstractly? Do you have something in mind that you think cannot be benefited from logic or an evidence-based approach?

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Eek... And Jeff?
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Happy birthday!!! :-)




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Thanks Siggie You know... regarding the debate, I think whenever something feels like it makes sense in our heads, we feel a rewarding, relaxing satisfaction, a brain tickle. I think that's why humanity has been drawn towards science and logical deduction, and I agree, I think you can apply it to anything. Even if you don't have evidence, you can go about a subject in a way that demands evidence before jumping in the boat of belief.

It would be cool to see you in Montreal someday

[gkv]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

why the censorship?
it is not up to one person to decide was is valuable or not to the community.
the degree of intolerance on this board is appalling.
this short film is relevant to the discussion at hand (far more relevant in fact than any argument could be)

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

why the censorship?
it is not up to one person to decide was is valuable or not to the community.
the degree of intolerance on this board is appalling.
this short film is relevant to the discussion at hand (far more relevant in fact than any argument could be)

Don't you think saying "none of your arguments are relevant" is also an example of intolerance?

Your "short" film is a pile of propagandistic garbage btw, nor is it "short". We can be thankful that fads amongst film critics are like teenage crushes - over within 6 months and quickly forgotten. Films of South-American "magic realism", anything at all from Australia, Polish Catholic angst in 3, 6, or 10 parts, Spanish fantasies with tits and fascists, Iranian small-scale trivialities of life, all pronounced to be deeply-meaningful works of genius that will change film making forever, then within a year gone and forgotten (and never watched by anyone). What will their next big thing be? Who the hell cares?

[gkv]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Don't you think saying "none of your arguments are relevant" is also an example of intolerance?

Your "short" film is a pile of propagandistic garbage btw, nor is it "short".

there was no “your“. You misread my words and got a wrong understanding as a result.
A film under an hour is short imho. that you would refer to this as garbage is quite sad.

[gkv]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

let people see for themselves outside of your strict & narrow mental categories

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

A film under an hour is short imho. that you would refer to this as garbage is quite sad.

A short film is 15 or 20 minutes long at the most. And there are ten of those things, at 50 or so minutes each!

I have better things to do than watch 8 hours of manipulative, clawing, Polish Catholic angst. Or watch obscenities like seeing milk being added to tea that is in a glass cup.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

let people see for themselves outside of your strict & narrow mental categories

The most succinct review of the first "short" film I could find:

God as a Mafia Boss I watched the first episode and couldn't believe my eyes. How could anybody, Catholic or atheist take this story seriously? I was watching it and praying: Please, Kieslowski, don't trivialize the matter!

Here's the plot: A nice intelligent guy raises a gifted and sensitive son alone. They relationship if filled with love. But the hero has one flaw, he's an agnostic, even though he was brought up in a Catholic family. What's worse, instead of trusting God, he happens to trust science--in particular his computer. God has no choice but to teach him a lesson. And what could best drive God's point if not killing the person the hero loves most--his son?

Having grown up in Catholic Poland, I can attest that this is how most people there understand religion. The loving God, who--like a Mafia boss--kisses you before stabbing your heart. This is the kind of God who doesn't stay Abraham's hand.

There is no subtlety in Kieslowski's story. No questioning of faith. The commandments are rigid rules--you break them, you pay. And the competing god--the technology--is viewed in a superstitious, parochial, way.

I'm glad Kieslowski didn't present his views on the intelligent design vs. Darwinism.

[gkv]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

I posted only one episode for there was only one to watch which is the only one i know
You live with prejudice and are looking with similar minded people to comfort yourself in your prejudices. Allow other people to live otherwise.
You have used the word garbage to qualfy sthg you haven't even seen. I could return the compliment you made to sip in another thread just a few minutes before posting in this one

[gkv]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

There is no propaganda in this film btw not even a message. it is open-ended.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

There is no propaganda in this film btw not even a message. it is open-ended.

Are you saying that the following does not sum up the plot?

Here's the plot: A nice intelligent guy raises a gifted and sensitive son alone. Their relationship is filled with love. But the hero has one flaw, he's an agnostic, even though he was brought up in a Catholic family. What's worse, instead of trusting God, he happens to trust science--in particular his computer. God has no choice but to teach him a lesson. And what could best drive God's point if not killing the person the hero loves most--his son?

Or are you saying that a plot like that should not be classed as propaganda?