Armenian lesbians/gays

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Then they get angry because these guys who worked hard and sacrificed their time for education/career want a new model Ferrari instead of an old Pinto

Oh ya. There are a lot of nice, intelligent & reasonably interesting guys who got totally ignored from age 18-30 by women who partied and slept with "bad boy" types while the nice guy spent his Friday & Saturday nights working & studying because nobody wanted to hang out with him. After these nice guys make something of themselves, before they've had any real fun in their lives, they're expected to take in these 30-something party girls who now want to settle down and have a family now that they've had all their fun. I hate this entitlement attitude. I don't necessarily agree with the view a lot of you guys expressed about woman's behavior, but at least your viewpoint doesn't result in people being hopelessly lonely, which is the reality today in America for millions of decent men.

Some women couldn't pick the right partner if their lives depended on it.

Guys are equally dumb in this regard, and guys put up with a LOT more crap than girls do which is directly related to the average woman having 20X more options than the average man. But generally men and women are both dumb in this regard. The difference is, we are always told about "woman's intuition", and how she can spot somebody who lies to her. Yea, thats why she gets fooled by the mechanic and by the bad boy types who used her and left her hanging. American society really overestimates the average woman's intellect. Just one of the many ways they put women on pedestals in an attempt to emasculate men.

Also, the advice I give my women friends who are in their late 30's is to not allow their biological clock to dictate when and with whom they marry.

Well its pretty tough to go against your own biology. Its like telling a cat to not land on its feet when you drop it, it can't really help it. I know a girl who was in her early 30s and she was trying to put the moves on me, and I wasn't interested. She showed so much interest that I thought what the hell, let me have some fun with her. Before we even got to the fun part it hit me: She's fast approaching her expiration date and is trying to desperately hook a man. IF she gets pregnant by some accident or through some deceitful way (happens a lot these days) then she's going to keep me chained to her forever. Needless to say I broke communication with her before it materialized into anything.

Low and behold, a couple of months later I ran into a friend of mine who also knew her. He said hey, do you talk to her anymore, I said no not really. He said yea she's kinda weird, she kept asking me out and I just wasn't interested. The lesson? Don't underestimate the loud, throbbing tick of the biological clock as it reaches 0:00!

Plus, I would be very curious to know why your girlfriends in their 30s cannot find a man. I have my hunches, but I'll let you answer first.

It is entirely possible to have a child without getting married, and removing the biological vulnerability from the equation altogether. A man who cannot separate a woman's desire to be a mother from her desire to have a life partner is not worth marrying anyway, IMO. And any man who doesn't love a woman enough to accept and embrace her child is not a man who can think for himself.

I'm not sure I understood you correctly. Are you saying that a man who doesn't marry a woman just to make her a mother doesn't deserve her? Or that a man who doesn't date someone because they're a single mother isn't a real man?

I know an old Armenian woman who actually disowned her son for marrying a woman who had already been married. I think that is a terrible and cruel thing to do, but at the end of the day, she is the one who is deprived of her son and his children. And this son's wife happens to be a very kind, caring, energetic person who would gladly care for her husband's mother in her old age. But because of stupid traditions and customs, she is spending her old age bitter and lonely. Why? because she cannot accept that her son married a woman who wasn't a virgin.

Well thats a little harsh, I personally wouldn't do that. But like I said earlier, you can't control how other people feel.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Kanada, the Ferrari was a good metaphor, and so I hijacked it.

The key to good relationships is good boundaries. What I was suggesting was that a man, and a woman, for that matter, have healthy boundaries with their families of origin before creating a family of their own.

The thing is, you guys seem to think that a woman with a more egalitarian, liberal, or "Western" outlook cannot possibly have a warm family life. This is not the case with me at all. My home is like a social club on weekends. My parents come, his parents come. The kids' friends come to play. Our friends stop in for coffee or a meal. We are very open-door policy people. But, also, we make our boundaries clear so that people don't have to guess what is or isn't ok in terms of stopping in. Our home is usually clean, but not always neat. My feeling is that if you have kids and your house is too clean, and you don't have a staff working to make it so, then something is very wrong. Also, if visitors are going to judge me for the cleanliness of my home, then I prefer they don't visit at all.

In our case, my husband prefers hanging out with my parents than with his. He has said this, himself. This is because my parents have good boundaries, because I have made them clear. Also, because my parents know that we enjoy their company more (my parents tend to be very lively, enjoy cooking, and have no problem with an extra glass of wine) they invite his parents for dinner on Sundays every other week, so that they aren't feeling resentful or left out.

We live in close proximity with both our families, but my parents have been far more supportive of us than his. My mother has been a primary caregiver to our kids. This is very much in keeping with what happens when there aren't the constraints of patriarchy or patrilocality. Maternal grandmothers are far more attuned to their daughters' children than paternal grandmothers. And this is the mighty bond that patriarchal systems naturally wish to dilute. It's all a matter of resources, at the end of the day.

Wrt to women and biological clocks, wouldn't it be better if we could allbe honest about our hopes and needs? And wouldn't you prefer to know that a woman has taken matters into her own hands by making her biological clock her own problem and not yours. One of my best friends just had a baby. The man she was dating wasn't ready, and she wasn't sure she wanted to spend the rest of her life with him. They are still together, but there is no pressure to get married. She is a tenured professor and has the ability to care for herself and her child.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

If only you can fit this on a T-Shirt.

...and if you can spell correctly.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Oh ya. There are a lot of nice, intelligent & reasonably interesting guys who got totally ignored from age 18-30 by women who partied and slept with "bad boy" types while the nice guy spent his Friday & Saturday nights working & studying because nobody wanted to hang out with him. After these nice guys make something of themselves, before they've had any real fun in their lives, they're expected to take in these 30-something party girls who now want to settle down and have a family now that they've had all their fun. I hate this entitlement attitude. I don't necessarily agree with the view a lot of you guys expressed about woman's behavior, but at least your viewpoint doesn't result in people being hopelessly lonely, which is the reality today in America for millions of decent men.





Guys are equally dumb in this regard, and guys put up with a LOT more crap than girls do which is directly related to the average woman having 20X more options than the average man. But generally men and women are both dumb in this regard. The difference is, we are always told about "woman's intuition", and how she can spot somebody who lies to her. Yea, thats why she gets fooled by the mechanic and by the bad boy types who used her and left her hanging. American society really overestimates the average woman's intellect. Just one of the many ways they put women on pedestals in an attempt to emasculate men.





Well its pretty tough to go against your own biology. Its like telling a cat to not land on its feet when you drop it, it can't really help it. I know a girl who was in her early 30s and she was trying to put the moves on me, and I wasn't interested. She showed so much interest that I thought what the hell, let me have some fun with her. Before we even got to the fun part it hit me: She's fast approaching her expiration date and is trying to desperately hook a man. IF she gets pregnant by some accident or through some deceitful way (happens a lot these days) then she's going to keep me chained to her forever. Needless to say I broke communication with her before it materialized into anything.

Low and behold, a couple of months later I ran into a friend of mine who also knew her. He said hey, do you talk to her anymore, I said no not really. He said yea she's kinda weird, she kept asking me out and I just wasn't interested. The lesson? Don't underestimate the loud, throbbing tick of the biological clock as it reaches 0:00!

Plus, I would be very curious to know why your girlfriends in their 30s cannot find a man. I have my hunches, but I'll let you answer first.





I'm not sure I understood you correctly. Are you saying that a man who doesn't marry a woman just to make her a mother doesn't deserve her? Or that a man who doesn't date someone because they're a single mother isn't a real man?





Well thats a little harsh, I personally wouldn't do that. But like I said earlier, you can't control how other people feel.

But culture and tradition do control how people think and feel, and they are just as arbitrary as other people's opinions.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Part of why my Armenian girlfriends who are in their 30's and not yet married is because they are fixated on finding Armenian men. But it isn't easy to find an Armenian man who isn't fixated on antiquated models of intimacy and relationships. What is interesting is that those who have taken my advice and decided to cast their nets a little wider have connected with appropriately matched partners. Power is only lost if it is given away. So, those same women who you seem to perceive as powerless suddenly change the paradigm for themselves, and now it's the men who are left searching. In the end, though, it's the loss of the Armenian nation that women who have so much to offer and who are educated and mature, those who are in the best position to be raising the next generation, are ending up marrying out.

A problem is never just one sided. Neither is a solution.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

But culture and tradition do control how people think and feel, and they are just as arbitrary as other people's opinions.

They aren't arbitrary. They serve a purpose. The first is mainly to bring society out from the jungle. If the privatized brains behind American society wasn't responsible for running the show, that is precisely where their culture or lack thereof would take them.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

They aren't arbitrary. They serve a purpose. The first is mainly to bring society out from the jungle. If the privatized brains behind American society wasn't responsible for running the show, that is precisely where their culture or lack thereof would take them.

So, why are you living in North America, then, if you are so dissatisfied with almost everything about it? Why not go back to the Middle East, or even Armenia? Presumably no one is forcing you to live in a place where you feel you don't fit and where their principles seem contrary to yours.

Also, if you had any knowledge of cultural theory, you would understand that culture is not a linear or progressive process. It is subject to many different forces, and in turn exerts different pressures. Culture is a dynamic process that isn't oriented toward any kind of goal, least of all the goal of "bringing society out from the jungle".

You make these expert statements because of pronouncements that other people made. It seems to me that you haven't thought critically about a whole lot of things that impact your life. Therefore, you are bitter and blame everyone except yourself for the predicament you are in.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

So, why are you living in North America, then, if you are so dissatisfied with almost everything about it? Why not go back to the Middle East, or even Armenia? Presumably no one is forcing you to live in a place where you feel you don't fit and where their principles seem contrary to yours.

Sorry, I don't enjoy bombs being thrown at me for being different.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Sorry, I don't enjoy bombs being thrown at me for being different.

Who's throwing bombs at people for being different?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Who's throwing bombs at people for being different?

You truly are clueless, aren't you?