Armenian lesbians/gays

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

In the end, Genuine Love is the best thing. Love for your wife/husband and then for your children. To be surrounded then by your family and your loved ones. When people are alone, shifting from partner to partner, from bed to bed, they can often get lost and lose purpose in life. It is this family love both conditional and unconditional that ease one's path in life, puts more purpose in one's life, and gives a better sense of direction. They can pass down their culture more easily and in all make a positive contribution to their society and people. We humans biologically need this love.

Amen!

There are many paths to achieving this love.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Mos, I firmly believe that human offspring do best when they grow up in a loving community. This has been stated, and restated time and again by social scientists, psychologists, sociologists, and others. I don't like the western nuclear model and I think it is lacking on many levels. But I also don't like the traditional Armenian model where roles are rigid and everyone has an opinion about everyone else's life. That's just too enmeshed.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Mos, I firmly believe that human offspring do best when they grow up in a loving community. This has been stated, and restated time and again by social scientists, psychologists, sociologists, and others. I don't like the western nuclear model and I think it is lacking on many levels. But I also don't like the traditional Armenian model where roles are rigid and everyone has an opinion about everyone else's life. That's just too enmeshed.

I think you over generalise for the Armenian model. There are bad seeds in every apple, and if you only look at the bad seeds you are going to write off the model as bad. The Western model is not really a family model to start with, that's why Western families on average are not as strong and not as cohesive. That's why there such high divorse rate and dysfunctional families. I mean in Russia, you usually have couples "marrying" late than just buying a dog and living like that. Same in Western Europe slowly.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

But I also don't like the traditional Armenian model where roles are rigid and everyone has an opinion about everyone else's life. That's just too enmeshed.

First of all, I don't know what you view as the traditional Armenian model, but a lot of it is what was picked up from Communism.

What you still seem to struggle with is the fact that you grew up around Westerners whose parents let them do whatever they wanted because they either came from broken homes or their parents just didn't care. You seem to view this as some sort of freedom they have that Armenians don't allow.

In Western society, you're disowned at 18 and left to fend for yourself as if your parents hand you off to the government. Armenian families (at least the ones I know) don't throw their kids to the wolves. Unfortunately the downside of this is that Armenians that grow up in the West take this for granted and end up being rather spoiled. In other words, they take the best part of both worlds and make terrible life choices.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

I think you over generalise for the Armenian model. There are bad seeds in every apple, and if you only look at the bad seeds you are going to write off the model as bad. The Western model is not really a family model to start with, that's why Western families on average are not as strong and not as cohesive. That's why there such high divorse rate and dysfunctional families. I mean in Russia, you usually have couples "marrying" late than just buying a dog and living like that. Same in Western Europe slowly.

I have known many western families that are cohesive. But, having studied family systems psychology, what is clear to me is that any family has to work to strike a balance between cohesiveness and individuation. Too much of either and someone is going to become symptomatic.

I know many people who would do better to raise dogs than to parent children, so maybe settling down with a partner and a pet isn't such a terrible thing.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

I know many people who would do better to raise dogs than to parent children, so maybe settling down with a partner and a pet isn't such a terrible thing.

In the West, people know how to train dogs. Ask them how to train a child to stop wearing diapers by age 2 and they'll look puzzled.

[ADandelion]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Flamenkita... how ever you want to slice it, western life isn't meant for family. I am certain I'll never experience what it will feel like to be a grandfather and I feel robbed of a life that could have been so much more fulfilling. None of it was my fault, in fact I was financially and emotionally prepared to start a family in my mid 20's. Since that didn't materialize due to the "party" and drama scene that so many Armenians girls were wrapped up in, I decided to put things on a back burner and have probably done a lot of dumb things with money and time that should have went towards a family. If you haven't noticed, most Armenian guys aren't into "relationships"... we don't believe in wasting our time with immature western pass times.

KanadaHye, I'm sorry things didn't work out for you the way you expected them to. The fact was that, somehow, you ended up looking for Armenian women in a circle of people who sought one another out for qualities you were deliberately trying to avoid. I'm just glad you didn't settle for a compromise and ended up in a marriage that turned out to be a daily struggle because of a basic difference in values.

Plenty of people get married late nowadays. It's never too late to start a family, or to find the particular brand of happiness you had been hoping for. You mention that many Armenian girls were wrapped up in a superfluous party scene, but what about the other women you encountered? Or have you always been set on having an Armenian wife, because your idea of a perfect, or even acceptable family, is only realized with an Armenian woman as your bride?


As for a relationship, I don't know what your definition of a relationship is, but based off of mine it's far from being a pastime. When I hear people describe their significant others as 'funny, cute, and the sex is great', I find myself wondering '... that's it?'

To me, a relationship is the natural result when two people fall in love with one another. Not two people who share a friendship augmenting it with physical intimacy, or a regular series of get-togethers based off of a common desire to find someone. You are with that person because they are the ONLY person you want to be involved with romantically, not because they have qualities you find positive and nothing better is available at the moment. A relationship is valid when being away from that person hurts you, because you feel you are missing a part of yourself in their absence. It is NOT something you give up for someone wealthier, or more beautiful, or from a better family.

Thus, by definition, I do not consider what many people in the US do to be a relationship. If that is what you mean, then that I can agree with. If a relationship is a mutual commitment based off of being in love with one another, that might or might not include sex, then I can't imagine how such a rich experience is immature or a waste of time if it's approached in a thoughtful and sincere way.


I myself almost ended up going to the University of Michigan, but ended up at a tech school instead for my particular program. : )

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

First of all, I don't know what you view as the traditional Armenian model, but a lot of it is what was picked up from Communism.

What you still seem to struggle with is the fact that you grew up around Westerners whose parents let them do whatever they wanted because they either came from broken homes or their parents just didn't care. You seem to view this as some sort of freedom they have that Armenians don't allow.

In Western society, you're disowned at 18 and left to fend for yourself as if your parents hand you off to the government. Armenian families (at least the ones I know) don't throw their kids to the wolves. Unfortunately the downside of this is that Armenians that grow up in the West take this for granted and end up being rather spoiled. In other words, they take the best part of both worlds and make terrible life choices.

I don't know why it is, but I get the sense that you just simply want to reject anything I say, even if what I am saying is not extreme.

Yes, some families cut their kids loose too soon, and that is no better than the 50 year old Armenian man who still lives at home with his parents because he wasn't able to adapt to a different culture and make a life for himself. Same with Armenian women who, for whatever reason, don't end up getting married.

I have an uncle like this. Finally, at age 50, someone introduced him to a woman from Beirut and thinking that she comes from a conservative cultural background, everybody got all excited. They got married, and some years later he got very sick and she turned out to be totally self-interested. He would have done much better if he'd married the wonderful Italian American woman he dated for many years until my grandmother convinced him to break up with her because she wasn't a virgin (my uncle was her first and only sexual partner, mind you). Well, after some time the Italian woman went on with her life and eventually met someone else, married, and has two wonderful boys. We still keep in touch with her. My uncle is stuck living with his crazy Armenian wife from Beirut, and my grandmother cries every day that her son wasted his life. Tragic, if you ask me!

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

I don't know why it is, but I get the sense that you just simply want to reject anything I say, even if what I am saying is not extreme.

Yes, some families cut their kids loose too soon, and that is no better than the 50 year old Armenian man who still lives at home with his parents because he wasn't able to adapt to a different culture and make a life for himself. Same with Armenian women who, for whatever reason, don't end up getting married.

I have an uncle like this. Finally, at age 50, someone introduced him to a woman from Beirut and thinking that she comes from a conservative cultural background, everybody got all excited. They got married, and some years later he got very sick and she turned out to be totally self-interested. He would have done much better if he'd married the wonderful Italian American woman he dated for many years until my grandmother convinced him to break up with her because she wasn't a virgin (my uncle was her first and only sexual partner, mind you). Well, after some time the Italian woman went on with her life and eventually met someone else, married, and has two wonderful boys. We still keep in touch with her. My uncle is stuck living with his crazy Armenian wife from Beirut, and my grandmother cries every day that her son wasted his life. Tragic, if you ask me!

Simply because true Armenians are born Armenian and die Armenian. If marriage was never in the cards, they don't force it. It's better to be single and remain who you are than to mix into oblivion. I know many older single men and women that are actively involved in Armenian communities helping with events or teaching or involved in church organizations. Marriage doesn't guarantee happiness nor should be forced as some sort of passage through phases of life.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

In the West, people know how to train dogs. Ask them how to train a child to stop wearing diapers by age 2 and they'll look puzzled.

Actually, both require techniques of operant conditioning, so someone who has trained a dog would be in an excellent position to potty train a child, provided that child's sphincters are developed enough to support the training. Also, potty training happens diffeerently in different cultures. Many parents in western countries are turning to early potty training methods (elimination communication) that is based on knowing what a baby's schedule is, how soon after nursing or a bottle it will eliminate, and putting it on a little potty. It requires some intense tracking, but it can work for some babies. Also, once babies are sleeping through the night, they usually wake up dry. So if you get to them right when they wake, you can potty them.

In the case of my kids, it was my daughter who, at the age of 4, took it upon herself to potty train her little brother. She'd tell him to sit and sit with him until he did his business. Such sweet memories I have of my babies!