The French Say "No" To The New European Constitution

[Siamanto]

The French have voted against the new European Constitution: 55% against 45%

The candidature of TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey was one of the concerns. Many Armenians should be satisfied and will probably consider the results of the referendum as a small victory.
I wonder what will be the impact on the candidature of TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey. Time will tell!

[Siamanto]

Erdogan: Linking Turkey to the French referendum is very ugly
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday that linking Turkey to France's referendum on the European Constitution is a "very ugly and wrong" policy. Speaking to journalists Erdogan said, "The vote is not about Turkey and using us in domestic politics is very wrong. We are very upset and amazed that Turkey is frequently being made an issue of debate."


The Turkish premier wouldn't comment on the expected "No" vote, adding that, "The decision of the French people will undoubtedly be a respectable one. It is not appropriate for me to make any assessment on that."

The constitution, which has been designed to prevent decision-making gridlock in the future as the EU expan
ds, has been a source of discussion in Turkey as many believe that although all member states have already signed an agreement to open accession talks on October 3 with Turkey, any "No" vote could plunge the EU into a crisis that could take years to figure out, which may, affect the overall strategy of the EU.

(Hürriyetim)
29 Mayıs 2005

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=11379

[Siamanto]

Erdogan: "The decision of the French people will undoubtedly be a respectable one. It is not appropriate for me to make any assessment on that."
(Hürriyetim)
29 Mayıs 2005


http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=11379

Hilarious! Since when *urks find "respectable" others' opinions?


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk" or "*urkish" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations!

[TJ]

Turkey's candidacy had nothing to do with the Constitution, its funny how everyone managed to link the two together and convince the majority of the public that that was the case. Prohibiting Turkey outright now from joining the EU will do Armenia much more harm than good. Why doesnt anyone see the advantage of having a power lever on these people, something we can use as a piece of meat to encourage them to at least try to pretend they are civilized and have respect for laws and human rights.

[Thai-Samurai]

The French voting no is a sad day for the whole world. Although I have no idea what it could mean.

[Siamanto]

Turkey's candidacy had nothing to do with the Constitution, its funny how everyone managed to link the two together and convince the majority of the public that that was the case.

First of all, please allow me to ask you how many times have you read the European Constitution? Isn't it "funny" how we probably can guess the answer!
If you read French, I would gladly scan and post a multitude - well written - articles, interviews and analysis written either by Armenians or French, published in the Armenian Press of France. It's very likely that - at least some - have carefully read the constitution.
Also, during the last three months, I have watched at least one televised debate every week including ministers, deputies, senators, European deputies, economists, sociologist, journalist etc. During every single debate, the candidature of TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey has been mentioned and [n] NONE [/b] of the pro-constitution participants suggested that the concerns were exaggerated or irrelevant. They should have consulted you!
Again, it's very like that many of the participants have carefully read and studied the European Constitution.

Now would you please enlighten us and explain why "Turkey's candidacy had nothing to do with the Constitution?" Or, more pertinently, why the Constitution had nothing to with TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey's candidature?

Prohibiting Turkey outright now from joining the EU will do Armenia much more harm than good. Why doesnt anyone see the advantage of having a power lever on these people, something we can use as a piece of meat to encourage them to at least try to pretend they are civilized and have respect for laws and human rights.

That's one opinion. Some seem to disagree with you on the subject!

[Red Brigade]

This European ''Constitution'' would be catastrophic for all the European Socialist countries.It is legally making EU a free market , which means EU and its people would live in a capitalistic system in order to create more antagonism.I am glad for Europe , that they voted no.Next time before they decide to create any constitution it would be wise to ask what the European people suggest , and not what a bunch of technocrats, lawyers and economists in the Brussels decided.

About Turkey's issue ,i think they should not stop the negotiation for the access.It would be very benefitial for Armenia to open the border with Turkey.
I am 100% positive for them to start the talks and start the negotiations, but eventualy i don't want Turkey to become 100% member.
So in final analysis :Yes for the talks of the accesion which would mean perhaps , border opening for Armenia , and recognition of the Armenian Genocide, and full grants of human rights to ALL the minorities.
No for Turkey to become a full member:It would undermine some of our goals.
Either way i don't see how can Turkey become a full member when a 20% of the country's minorities want their own independent country.Unless if they will wait a whole generation to brainwash all the young Kurds.
The most realistic would be a special economical membership,with the consideration that they would recognise the Genocide and re-open the borders.
To problem is that the Armenians Politicians are literaly wack and they will lose this historic oportunity to benefit plus the Armenian diaspora is wack as well if you consider what they could do if they were all just part of one diaspora community , and not divided in 4 and 5 independent parties.

PS:From what i know in Anatolia there are Muslim Armenians left.Full liberties would mean Armenian schools.

PS2: But like i said earlier the Armenian Diaspora(that is those 4-5 parties who control it, not the people) are oportunist dirty wacks , from the moment that they close a major school In cyprus , i dont see how they will open a school in Turkey.

PS3:By the way there aren't any European Socialist countries ,they are all capitalistic in disguise.

[Thai-Samurai]

I would prefer not open borders with Turkey; I would much rather shun them for their evil deeds until they fix all their problems. Remember the article I posted about how they displaced and actively murder 378,000 Kurds from late 1980's till now. It seems they keep repeating the standard Turkish crimes and then denying it, and putting up a "we're a completely legitimate civilized nation" front to the world. "Hey look at me, I'm the president of Turkey, I can make thoughtful carefully worded comments about politics too."

[!IKE]

The french said no and I'm extremely disapointed!!!

Most of them voted because they were disapointed at the current governement. And since the governement was for the YES, they voted NO.

Now lets talk about the people who actually understood what was the referendum about. It was about constructing a stronger europe, reinforcing its institutions. People whined during years that the EU was too liberal and not social enough. The constitution was mainly social, it had rules every country should respect. Equality, democracy, everything was in there!
There was even an article that attacked denial of historical massacres.
Everything was in there to prevent Turkia entering the EU. SO I especially despise the armenians that voted no. Because guess what, the process to integrate Turkia has already begun. No constitution? Good luck.

ANd then, many people voted NO because according to them, the EU is too present in each country. There's a central bank, the Brussel parliament, etc.... Everyone whines about it. But it's the only way to stand a chance against other big powers such as the US, Japan or China.......just being united for christ sake.

Now, tell me if the following thing is coincidence or not.

10 days ago, China said it would instaure taxes on its textile exportations to prevent the crumbling of the european textile market. Thanks to Brussel..... now that France, has voted NO, there's a chain reaction in Britain and Holland. The EU has weakened and today, China announced he isn't going to instaure those taxes anymore.



edit: I actually have red the constitutions, since I'm french too, they sent it to me. As Tigran stated it before, the vote wasn't if Turkia should enter or not! Turkia had nothing to do, you just watch the many debates. The people for YES and the people for NO alike all involved Turkia and the Armenian genocide to try to convince people.




PS: Oh and let me add one more thing! There were mainly three political parties against the constitution.

1- The communist party. True, they have an interesting agenda....make everyone happy and close the borders

2- The socialist and its right wing twin (udf). They are against the constituion, they are for another europe, but do they have a PLAN B? A clear nono

3- The extreme right wing party. They don't want any europe, any foreigners, anything...its only true force is appealing to the misery of people but when it comes to handle the troubles...



So Siamanto, since you at least took interest in the debates, you either got brainwashed by one of those parties, or you just find that voting NO makes you a rebel of some sort.


Europe has done a lot for us, and since the beginning, 1957 Rome, people knew the aim was to have a common root..a single constitution to bring us together. When you're in Europe, you either give your fullest to make it work, or you just forget about it. How do you want to work in a community where some are more involved than others.
I just hate the idea of "We want a Europe, but not too much of it."

[nairi]

I think people are afraid the EU will become another US. I don't think the time is right for a referendum or any other change. We're still digesting the euro. Give us more time. It's too early for another big change. Maybe in about fifty years the climate will be more suitable for such a change.