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Barev

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  • #11
    Re: Barev

    Welcome to the forum Jam. I hope you're stay in here will be enjoyable and enlightening for you.

    Comment

    • #12
      Re: Barev

      @ Lucin:

      There are around 3 to 4 million Zazas living in Turkey. Since, ethnicity is not being asked numbers of non-Turks in Turkey is unknown.

      @ other members:

      thank you guys for welcoming me.

      Comment

      • #13
        Re: Barev

        Welcome Jam
        Positive vibes, positive taught

        Comment

        • #14
          Re: Barev

          Originally posted by Jam View Post
          Alevi faith that is practiced in Tunceli is a mix of Zoroastrianism, Shia Islam and Christianity. So, I am interested in our roots and ancient culture that is why I put that.
          Hey Jam,

          have you heard of Ishikism and did you read the books of Erdogan Cinar?

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          • #15
            Re: Barev

            Originally posted by Alevigirl88 View Post
            Hey Jam,

            have you heard of Ishikism and did you read the books of Erdogan Cinar?
            Hi Alevigirl.

            I had never heard of Ishikism and Erdigan Cinar. I have to say that Alevism is definetly not easy to explain so different people describe in a diffrent way.

            Kizilbash Alevis which are Zazas and a few Kurds practice their religion different than Bektashi Alevis which are Turks. Kizilbash were mostly supporters of Iran and Armenia. Whereas Bektashi were pro-Ottoman and Turkish. Dersim (Tunceli) is the only city where Alevis are majority and that's why I think it is less influenced by Islam and more pure. There are a lot of things we do that Turkish Alevis have not even heard about it.

            Where are you from?

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            • #16
              Re: Barev

              Originally posted by Jam View Post

              Kizilbash Alevis which are Zazas and a few Kurds practice their religion different than Bektashi Alevis which are Turks. Kizilbash were mostly supporters of Iran and Armenia. Whereas Bektashi were pro-Ottoman and Turkish.

              Where are you from?
              Bektashi pro-Ottoman?? Where did you get that from?

              I'm from Corum. My ancestors came in 1826 from Sivas to Corum, because they had done things that pissed off the authorities, so they had to escape. Before Sivas they lived in Malatya and Kars.
              Last edited by Alevigirl88; 08-28-2009, 06:05 AM.

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              • #17
                Re: Barev

                Originally posted by Jam View Post
                Kizilbash Alevis which are Zazas and a few Kurds practice their religion different than Bektashi Alevis which are Turks. Kizilbash were mostly supporters of Iran and Armenia. Whereas Bektashi were pro-Ottoman and Turkish.
                Many janissaries also belonged to Bektashi order during the Ottoman period, but they were not Alevi's, they were Sunni's. The Janissaries did not necessarily have a Bektashi outlook and most were not Bektashi dervishes. However, they accepted Hajji Bektashi as their founder and spiritual guard. Sultan Mahmud II banded the Janissaries in 1826 and ordered the deaths of many, while at the same time he closed all Bektashi tekkes.

                Maybe you confused them with Alevi-Bektashi's

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                • #18
                  Re: Barev

                  Originally posted by Alevigirl88 View Post
                  Many janissaries also belonged to Bektashi order during the Ottoman period, but they were not Alevi's, they were Sunni's. The Janissaries did not necessarily have a Bektashi outlook and most were not Bektashi dervishes. However, they accepted Hajji Bektashi as their founder and spiritual guard. Sultan Mahmud II banded the Janissaries in 1826 and ordered the deaths of many, while at the same time he closed all Bektashi tekkes.

                  Maybe you confused them with Alevi-Bektashi's
                  Well those janissaries belonged to Bektashi order and later both Kizilbash and Bektashi were called Alevi. A lot of those janissaries were actually European that were taken away from their family at a very young age. Most of them were Orthodox Christians from Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece. These people fought for Ottomans against Europeans, Arabs and also Persians.

                  There are a lot of differences between a Zaza Alevi from Dersim and a Turkish Alevi from Konya, Izmir, Kütahya and other cities.

                  • We Alevis from Dersim do not pray in a mosque.
                  • We drink alcohol and some young people even consume pork.
                  • We are getting baptized 40 days after birth.
                  • We used to pray to sun and fire has an important role just like in Zoroastrianism.
                  • We have saints and holy places such as mountains, rivers and lakes.
                  • We have monks called "pir" that travel around and give prayers.
                  • People used to wear white clothes just like Zoroastrians and even had a similar belt that Zoroastrians wear.



                  For Bektashi Alevis a lot of things I mentioned above are unfamilar. Lately I see more and more Bektashi and Turkish Alevis that go to mosque to pray and fast in Ramadan. Alevis of Dersim never do that!

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                  • #19
                    Re: Barev

                    Well now we got a very nice Zaza/Alevi thread on our Armenian forum!

                    By the way, wellcome Jam.

                    Comment

                    • #20
                      Re: Barev

                      Originally posted by Jam View Post

                      There are a lot of differences between a Zaza Alevi from Dersim and a Turkish Alevi from Konya, Izmir, Kütahya and other cities.

                      • We Alevis from Dersim do not pray in a mosque.
                      • We drink alcohol and some young people even consume pork.
                      • We are getting baptized 40 days after birth.
                      • We used to pray to sun and fire has an important role just like in Zoroastrianism.
                      • We have saints and holy places such as mountains, rivers and lakes.
                      • We have monks called "pir" that travel around and give prayers.
                      • People used to wear white clothes just like Zoroastrians and even had a similar belt that Zoroastrians wear.



                      For Bektashi Alevis a lot of things I mentioned above are unfamilar. Lately I see more and more Bektashi and Turkish Alevis that go to mosque to pray and fast in Ramadan. Alevis of Dersim never do that!
                      well, I'm A Turkish Alevi and we also don't go to mosques, but to a cem house. We also drink alcohol and it's permited and I consume pork, we have also saints and holy places and we have also monks that are called pir. Kizilbash, Zaza-Alevi, Alevi etc. are same, we have more similarities than differences. My uncle is married with a Zaza-alevi. Turkish-alevi's that go to mosques are assimilated, I don't see them as Alevi's.

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