Armenia-PKK

[jgk3]

Re: Armenia-PKK

No the joke of the century is an Armenian saying they never surrrender

Why is this a joke?

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenia-PKK

So you're basically saying it was Christians and not Turks and most probably Armenians themselves that perpetrated the genocide. Did you have Armenian Turd for breakfast?

No I'm saying that the turks only can destroy and can't do anything good. What has the Turk brought to this world except blood and war. Nothing

No the joke of the century is an Armenian saying they never surrrender

Damn there's a lot of Armenian low life on this thread...

No you're the joke of the century with your entire race
mods why in he even allowed to stay here and insult Armenians. I haven't seen contribute anything to this community.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenia-PKK

mods why in he even allowed to stay here and insult Armenians. I haven't seen contribute anything to this community.

he's free to make a fool out of himself. I would prefer him leaving here doubting in his beliefs than just banning him.

[hitite]

Re: Armenia-PKK

No I'm saying that the turks only can destroy and can't do anything good. What has the Turk brought to this world except blood and war. Nothing


No you're the joke of the century with your entire race
mods why in he even allowed to stay here and insult Armenians. I haven't seen contribute anything to this community.

Hey ZorotheGreat. Why go all cry baby when you get a taste of your own crap.

[hitite]

Re: Armenia-PKK

he's free to make a fool out of himself. I would prefer him leaving here doubting in his beliefs than just banning him.

Ok respect to the moderator... I just gave a little fraction back at this KarotheCrap guy and now you want me to leave. OR are you saying that he never insulted anyone on this thread? OR are you saying that the Armenian can insult the Turk but you can't allow the opposite. Why didnt you moderate when he was saying:

"You know how mongolia is under populiated we send every turk there and ask one horse for one turk every body wins"
"...and I respect every human but I don't consider most Turks as human and all this I've told a Turk and you know what he did nothing lol"
"So if you don't care get lost lol, we don't want turks here except one turk who's allowed to stay"

...and many more. Didnt you realize that this guy is Armenian scum when he was saying all that? AND compare what he said to what I said and now you want me to go....

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenia-PKK

AND compare what he said to what I said and now you want me to go....
Close the door on your way out please.

[Federate]

Re: Armenia-PKK

Kurds and Armenians: Finding Common Cause


On September 2, 1938 an editorial appeared in the Hairenik Weekly condemning the Turkish government’s brutal crackdown of its Kurdish population in Dersim. The editorial drew the following link between the common struggle for freedom waged by both Armenians and Kurds:

“The case with the Kurds is a fight born of desperation, similar to the stand of the Armenians in 1918, a resistance which takes into account neither numbers nor odds. It is the natural instinct for self-preservation and self-determination to which all peoples aspire.”

Such an expression of solidarity with the Kurdish Cause was not an aberration but, rather, a direct extension of the ARF’s rich legacy of standing shoulder to shoulder with all groups struggling against oppression. Drawing such links between other movements for social justice and the Armenian Cause is an important principle which deserves proper attention, not only for its moral and historical significance, but also for its political implications in today’s context of Hai Tahd activism.

Motivating Factors

There are two major underlying aspects behind the principle of solidarity. One is the moral aspect which considers freedom to be a social, rather than mere individual, pursuit. It is based on the belief that one can only truly be free when freedom becomes achieved for all others around them as well; for how can one truly be content and secure in their freedom if they are surrounded by suffering and injustice? This concept is perhaps best captured in Martin Luther King Jr’s famous quote, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

The other dimension for solidarity hinges on a more practical political calculation: the belief that by coming together with others around a common goal, one can help build a broader base of power and improve social conditions. Indeed, by pooling resources and manpower, movements which are able to collaborate with one another are logically much more likely to achieve victories. The smaller a group or movement is, the more central this consideration becomes in their hopes for pursuing justice.

The ARF Legacy


Mjoyi KhoumpsmallIn the history of the Armenian Cause, both of these dimensions have played a role in motivating initiatives to form bonds with non-Armenian circles. From very early on its existence, the ARF cultivated ties with other peoples who similarly struggled for liberation against despotic regimes. Such groups included the Russians, Kurds, Persians, Assyrians, Macedonians and even ordinary Turks who suffered under the Sultan.

Within the Armenian communities of the Ottoman Empire, the Kurdish masses stood out as an especially important group to establish cooperation with. Like Armenians, Kurdish peasants lived a servile existence under Ottoman rule and faced similar levels of exploitation. The ARF sought to explain that both peoples had a shared interest in resisting Turkish tyranny and the brutality of Kurdish landowning chieftains.

Several early ARF World Congresses passed decisions calling for the establishment of relations with Kurds; the pages of Droshak, the ARF’s official publication, commonly featured calls for peace with the Kurds; and fedayees such as Ishkhan, Vartkes, Goms, Roupen, Kevork Chavoush, Rosdom and many others made attempts to build bridges with the Kurdish working class. Although these attempts did not bear full fruit, there were in fact a handful of Kurds who were courageous enough to go against their powerful chiefs and join with the ARF in its struggle against the Sultan. Kurdish figures such as Msto, Valad Nuri, Kerpela Abbas, and Hamzeh put their lives on the line and fought shoulder to shoulder with Armenians. There was even a mixed Armeno-Kurdish ARF group led by the fedayee Mjo.

Nevertheless, the lack of a revolutionary consciousness and the grip of the feudal clan system within the Kurdish community served as an obstacle to broad-based collaboration. Many Kurds succumbed to the divide and conquer policies designed by the Turkish state and participated in the massacre of Armenians.

Following the Genocide, however, as the Turkish government turned its genocidal focus against the Kurds, the ARF once again extended a hand of harmony and collaboration to the Kurdish people. Figures such as Vahan Papazian worked to bring Kurds together and help them organize resistance against the increasingly repressive policies of Kemalist Turkey. Due to Papazian’s efforts, a first-ever national Kurdish league called Hoybun was formed in Lebanon in 1927. ARF leaders such as Garo Sassouni also allied in favor of the Kurdish struggle and the ARF officially raised the Kurdish issue at meetings of the Socialist International, beginning in 1925.

Securing Solidarity

Thus, as can be seen, attempts at solidarity between Kurds and Armenians persevered even in the face of past Kurdish involvement in atrocities against Armenians. This was due to the fact that Kurds are a people whose fate has been inextricably linked to that of Armenians. Both have been victims of Turkish brutality and have had their national rights denied.

Just as Turkish authorities once viewed Armenians’ call for equality and democracy as a “threat” to their empire, Ankara today interprets the Kurdish people’s demand for basic human rights as meaning “separatism.” Just as the Ottoman authorities refused to recognize the national identity of Armenians and called them “Christian Turks,” the Kurdish people have had to fight Turkey’s attempts to officially classify them as “Mountain Turks.” Just as they once did to Armenians, the Turkish government continues to suppress the language, history, and identity of Kurds; ransacks their schools and cultural monuments; bans their political parties and newspapers; pillages their towns and villages; terrorizes their families and children; subjects Kurds to a policy of Turkification; and attacks their human rights workers and journalists.

There is no better example of the horrific consequences of allowing Turkey to get away with the Genocide than what is happening today to the Kurds. Allowing a crime to go unpunished only tells the criminal that they can get away with the same crimes over and over again. We see this very clearly today in the case of Turkey’s policy toward the Kurds.

In this sense, there is a moral imperative to show solidarity with the Kurdish people’s struggle. At the same time, there is a tactical imperative to form cooperation with all those who share an interest in putting an end to Turkey’s inhumanity. The strength of all movements demanding justice from Turkey would be amplified if such diverse groups came together around their mutual points of concern. Not doing so would only serve the interests of the Turkish state and continue the divide-and-conquer policy it has so long pursued.

In addition, as has been pointed out by academic Bilgit Ayata, dialogue between Armenians and Kurds has the potential to serve as a counterweight to the counterproductive approach being pushed on the state level between Turkey and Armenia. Instead of succumbing to Turkey’s imposition of dominance under the guise of Turkish-Armenian ‘reconciliation,’ Armenians should seek common cause with the Kurdish people and ask themselves how there can ever be genuine friendship with a country that still systematically oppresses over 20% of its own population.

Although there have been many disappointments and negative experiences in the ARF’s attempts to form coalitions with other struggles, there have also been many positive achievements. Indeed, some of the instances of collaboration with other liberation movements have undoubtedly formed one of the most remarkable chapters in ARF history. In this light, the benefits of collaboration should continue to be pursued, albeit carefully and with the vigilance that ensures that the rights of Armenians are never made expendable.

http://www.asbarez.com/2009/07/02/kurds-and-armenians-finding-common-cause/

[jgk3]

Re: Armenia-PKK

I guess since Kurds can't kill Armenians anymore (as there are none left in Eastern Turkey), maybe the ARF (which functions one many levels independantly of the RoA) can work on dialogue.

[Federate]

Re: Armenia-PKK

A a year old article but excellent work on exposing propaganda nonetheless. Part of the information war.
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An exercise in disinformation: linking Kurds to NKR


by Yelena Osipova

Published: Saturday August 02, 2008 in International
Washington -
Background

Allegations linking Armenia to Kurdish political activism in Turkey are not new. Azerbaijan’s motivation for this is to win and maintain Turkey’s support and to position itself as fighting a “common enemy” in Karabakh.

Turkish nationalists, in turn, seek to portray the PKK as a non-Muslim and even anti-Muslim entity, appealing to religious and ethnic biases in the fight for the hearts and minds of Turkey’s Kurdish population.

In the early 1990s, frequent Turkish claims that Armenia provides support to PKK also helped build up an excuse for Turkey’s potential intervention in the Karabakh war on the side of the losing forces of Azerbaijan.

At one point in 1992, that campaign was inadvertently facilitated by Armenia’s own propaganda, which suggested, falsely, that the mostly ethnically Kurdish population of areas between Karabakh and Armenia proper welcomed Armenian forces as liberators. (Yezidi Kurds from Armenia proper were even reported to have been bused to Lachin for that purpose.)

In fact, by the 20th century, most of Azerbaijan’s ethnically Kurdish population was thoroughly Turkified and they now mostly self-xidentify as Azerbaijanis.

Azerbaijan’s ethnic Kurds reportedly include such well-known characters as Azerbaijan’s late national leader Heydar Aliyev, as well as wartime chief of national police and local Grey Wolves franchise Iskender Hamidov, who famously promised to wipe out Yerevan and Stepanakert with two nuclear strikes.
First salvos

In August 2007, Yusuf Halaco?lu, head of the Turkish Historical Society, ultranationalist and Armenian Genocide denier, announced that his studies on the origins of Anatolian tribes showed many Kurds, particularly Kurdish Alevis, were originally Armenian. As events unfolded, Mr. Halaco?lu’s comment appeared to have been motivated primarily by politics.

In an interview with Uluslararas? Haber Dergisi in October 2007, Mr. Halaco?lu said many “people” who think they are Kurds may be mistaken, and the case is the same with “the terrorist groups who tried to be identified as Kurdish Alevis or Kurds.” (Incidentally, after 15 years at the helm of Turkish official historiography, Mr. Halaco?lu was replaced by the Turkish government this week.)

Somewhat unexpectedly, this line of reasoning was reflected in the remarks made by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo?an of Turkey during an official visit to the United States in early November 2007.
After being questioned by an Armenian Embassy staff member on Turkey’s Armenia policy in a public meeting hosted by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Mr. Erdo?an demurred on the need to distinguish the terrorists from the Kurdish population at large, saying, “In the terrorist organization [PKK], there are Kurds, Armenians, others.” (He said this even though no ethnic Armenian member of the PKK was ever identified dead or alive, at least in the last decade.)

More importantly, during his visit, Mr. Erdo?an and Turkey’s friends in the U.S. government, succeeded in having President George W. Bush declare the PKK to be America’s enemy.

“They are an enemy of Turkey, they are an enemy of Iraq, and they are an enemy of the United States,” Mr. Bush declared that November, while also authorizing U.S. forces in Iraq to assist Turkey in their attacks against the PKK in Iraqi Kurdistan.
Azerbaijan jumps in

On November 30 Zaman, a newspaper close to the Turkish government, quoted the Federation of Turkish-Azeri Associations’ Secretary General Mehmet Azeriturk as claiming, “Armenia is making an effort to bring PKK militants into the cities of ?u?a [Shushi], Lacin [Berdzor] and Fuzuli, to be able to keep these cities it has occupied.”

No reference was made as to where Mr. Azeriturk acquired that information. The Zaman article also said that Armenian officials have denied any such contacts with the PKK.

But just days later, Azerbaijan’s deputy foreign minister Araz Azimov, apparently citing the “Zaman report,” declared that Azerbaijan is ready to perform “counter-xterrorist” operations against PKK military units “positioned” in Karabakh.

Azerbaijan’s Zerkalo reported Mr. Azimov saying that the PKK’s presence in the occupied territories “shows the international community that we were right in our earlier statements [making the link between the PKK and Karabakh].” Armenians had always had a penchant for terrorists, he added.
The international echo

On December 11 the Azerbaijani allegations were promoted by the Russian journalist Aleksei Baliev. Writing for RPMonitor.ru, an online political journal, he compared “the Lachin corridor” linking Armenia and Karabakh to “Iraqi Kurdistan” as a safe haven for the PKK.

An Armenian Yezidi community leader had, earlier in December, endorsed the presidential candidacy of then-Prime Minister Serge Sargsian. Mr. Baliev linked this endorsement to Kurdish hopes for Armenia’s support for establishing “a Kurdish autonomy” in areas between Karabakh and Armenia proper.

(Although Mr. Tamoyan’s endorsement came in a joint press conference with a xxxish-xArmenian community leader, Rimma Varzhapetian, who also backed Mr. Sargsian, Mr. Baliyev did not suggest that the xxxs of Armenia were also hoping to establish themselves in Lachin.)

The nonsensical nature of the argument did not stop Paul Goble, a former U.S. official now employed as research director for the Azerbaijani Academy of Diplomacy, from indirectly endorsing the claim in his personal blog the next day, suggesting that “the Kurdish initiative in Armenia provides those opposed to any settlement [over Karabakh] with yet another means to block it.”

By December 20, the Azerbaijani government allegations were presented as fact by Anar Valiev, a fellow at the Masaryk University in the Czech Republic and apparently a native of Azerbaijan.

The PKK’s (supposed) decision to move to Karabakh, Mr. Valiev stated in the December 20 issue of Global Terrorism Analysis, published by the Washington-based Jamestown Foundation, is “rational, well thought-out and could benefit both sides.”

Mr. Valiev went on to suggest that Turkey would never “chase” the PKK in Nagorno-Karabakh out of fear that any such action would come to involve several other states, upsetting the fragile balance in the region.

For Armenians, on the other hand, harboring the PKK would help to bolster the region’s population and provide “hundreds – if not thousands – of experienced guerilla fighters.” Mr. Valiev cited Mr. Baliev’s commentary as one of his sources.
Israeli and American spillover...

In January 2008, an unofficial and frequently inaccurate Israeli source, DEBKAfile, alleged that PKK leaders had started “acting on a decision they had reached in November to move their bases from the xQandil Mountains of Iraqi Kurdistan to the predominantly ethnic Armenian South Caucasian region of Nagorno-Karabakh.”

The online publication said it got the information from its “sources [that] have picked up rumors,” which were also supported by “PKK defectors who turned themselves in to Turkish forces.”

DEBKAfile added that no transfer of the Kurdish bases had been confirmed as of January 28. However, it also said that a group of PKK chiefs were reported to have visited Kurdish villages in Karabakh looking for support. (No such villages in fact exist in Karabakh.)

A sort of a culmination of the campaign occurred in February 2008, when Mr. Azimov met with visiting U.S. State Department coordinator on terrorism Frank Urbanic (whom Azerbaijani media renamed “Urbanchik”).

Mr. Azimov told Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL) after the meeting that the PKK was the main focus of their talks. He expressed concern over the “PKK building ‘close relations’ with ‘terrorist groups and organizations’ that are enemies of both Turkey and Azerbaijan – a remark seen in Baku as a reference to Armenia or ethnic-Armenian forces,” RFE/RL reported.

A public affairs officer at the U.S. Embassy in Baku was quoted as saying that the United States is “increasingly concerned about what appears to be growing ties between the PKK and other groups in the Caucasus” and the “threat the PKK poses to energy infrastructure in the [region].”

But the annual State Department report on terrorism issued on April 30 did not contain references to Azerbaijani allegations.

These remarks were followed by several articles on the subject in the Turkish media. The Journal of Turkish Weekly, an online publication of the Turkish lobby in the United States, wrote, “It is reported that the Karabakh authorities provide a safe haven for international terrorism.”

The Journal, citing suspect sources, claimed that 56 PKK members had settled in Karabakh and that “terror camps” were established in the region. The Journal went on to claim that the Israeli intelligence organization Mossad “had warned Turkey and Azerbaijan about the PKK movements.”
…and denials

Contacted by the Armenian Reporter this week, Ehud Gol, Israel’s ambassador to Armenia, dismissed these reports as “a baseless story.” He said he had no knowledge of the matter and viewed it as a bad piece of journalism with no credible sources.

Mr. Gol added that because of this, Israel had not issued any formal denial, adding, “We do not have any reason to believe [these reports are] true.”

While the United States did not formally endorse Azerbaijani or Turkish allegations, signs of interest on the part of at least some U.S. officials can be seen in the State Department’s award of a fellowship grant to Dr. Mark Yoffe to study the Yezidi Kurdish community in Armenia in September 2007.

“The U.S. Embassy in Armenia was interested in all aspects of Yezidi Kurdish life,” Dr. Yoffe told the Reporter in July. Asked about whether the Armenian state plays any role in Kurdish political activism, Dr. Yoffe said, “There are issues that might or might not involve Yezidi Kurds. However, my research does not show that Armenians are involved in them in any way.”

Dr. Yoffe, a specialist in Slavic languages at the George Washington University, held a presentation of his findings last February, noting that rather than serving as a potential connection to the PKK, Yezidi Kurds in Armenia “spoke badly” about Turkish Kurd emissaries who occasionally visited their villages, because “for Yezidis, Kurds are synonymous with Muslims and this is often given as a reason for antipathy.”

Dr. Yoffe was told that despite the emissaries’ attempts “to recruit Yezidis into their armed struggle or raise funds for their causes,” the Yezidis asked them to leave the villages, after which they stopped coming.
What it all means

“Pursuit of ‘terrorists’ or the presence of terrorists in a given territory has been used as pretext by states around the world for military operations,” Hratch Tchilingirian of the University of Cambridge told the Armenian Reporter via e-mail.

Indeed, while constantly threatening a new war in Karabakh, Azerbaijan is increasingly at a loss when it comes to providing contemporary reasons for its acrimony, with wartime grievances steadily shifting into the historical realm.

In the absence of aggressive behavior by the Armenian side, Azerbaijan has sought to invent it, coming up with baseless allegations – on subjects ranging from the environment to crime to security – that are designed to win international sympathy.

At the same time, Azerbaijan has worked to keep international access to Karabakh as restricted as it possibly can – a difficult task in an increasingly transparent and inter-connected world.

Nevertheless, with the Caucasus as remote as it is, Azerbaijan frequently succeeds in having its disinformation published by reputable media and even in foreign government publications such as the many annual reports that the State Department is mandated to release. In a drawn-out public relations war such small bureaucratic coups too can serve as small victories.

Writing on May 27 in the Soros Foundation–funded Eurasianet.org, Stephen Blank, a commentator on regional affairs who teaches at the U.S. Army War College in Pennsylvania, suggested, “The mere fact that Turkish and Azerbaijani media outlets are complaining about a Kurdish militant presence in Karabakh should spur the international community to action [on Karabakh],” he said, calling for “redoubled efforts” on the resolution of the Karabakh issue, in order to “eliminate, or at least greatly diminish the chances” of any aggressive developments.

While stressing that the allegation linking the PKK to Karabakh is unsubstantiated, Dr. Tchilingirian agreed that “for Azerbaijan it could serve as a pretext to test military operations in the Karabakh region in the name of ‘rooting out terrorists’ that pose a threat to Turkey.”

In this case, Azerbaijan attempted to piggy-back on America’s support for Turkey’s fight against the PKK, but it once again failed to win outright Turkish government support for the effort.

When contacted this week, the Azerbaijani Embassy in Washington refused to comment on the matter.
The “Kurdish” campaign appeared to have come to an abrupt end, or at least an extended intermission in late February – early March.

It is unclear if that had something to do with Armenia’s presidential elections and subsequent domestic developments in both Armenia and Turkey; or, more modestly, with completion of pre-publication research for the State Department’s terrorism report.?

http://www.reporter.am/index.cfm?furl=/go/article/2008-08-02-an-exercise-in-disinformation-linking-kurds-to-nkr&pg=1

[Federate]

Re: Armenia-PKK

PKK plans to leave Armenia as Turkish-Armenian ties develop

The normalization of relations between Turkey and Armenia has reportedly put the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) terrorist organization in dire straits.

Many PKK members traveled to Armenia after the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) launched cross-border operations in northern Iraq in February 2008 to eliminate PKK camps in the region. But as relations develop between Armenia and Turkey, members of the PKK currently living in Armenia are making plans to leave the country in search of a new safe haven.

A pro-PKK radio station that airs regular broadcasts for PKK circles recently announced on its Web site that Armenia is no longer a safe place to live and that PKK members should leave the country as soon as possible. Intelligence agencies have learned that Greek Cyprus is a possible new destination for members of the terrorist organization. After the US-based holdings and financial resources of three leaders of the PKK were seized due to suspected drug trafficking on Wednesday, the PKK is reportedly trying to get its financial resources out of Armenia quickly to avoid a new financial blow from that direction.

Turkish intelligence agencies have been monitoring pro-PKK TV and radio stations for a long time. The PKK has commanded its members through the Web site of a pro-PKK radio station to leave Armenia and head to Limassol, Cyprus.

It has also been reported that the PKK has camps called Gyumri, Yerevan, Lachin and Kalbajar -- all named after cities in Armenia and Armenian-occupied Azerbaijani territory -- near the Armenian-Turkish border. The PKK reportedly operates organizations including the Kurdish People and Religious Association, Yezidi Kurds Women Association and Kurdish International Cultural and Information Association to help sustain the PKK both financially and otherwise.

Intelligence agencies also report that the PKK has played a role in the intercontinental drug trade, exporting heroin to European countries from Afghanistan via Armenia and Iran.

Observers hypothesize that Armenian-Turkish diplomatic relations may grow to encompass bilateral cooperation on security measures after the Zurich Protocols are ratified by the two countries' parliaments. The fight against terrorism and drug trafficking will be leading items on the agenda for cooperation measures between Armenia and Turkey.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-190185-100-pkk-plans-to-leave-armenia-as-turkish-armenian-ties-develop.html