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  • Re: elegy

    Saturday, July 11, 2009
    *****************************************
    THE ENEMY WITHIN
    ************************************************** ****
    After publishing an interview with a Tashnak leader, in which he reminisced about his predecessors and the way they had shaped his character and worldview, a Ramgavar leader wrote a letter to the editor in which he exposed Tashnak leaders as phonies and myself as a dupe.
    More recently, in Gourgen Mahari's memoirs, I read about an encounter with General Antranik in which he is quoted as having said that Tashnak leaders deserve the hangman's noose.
    It is common knowledge that the heroes of one nation are more often than not unknown nonentities to its enemies.
    The French Revolution spawned two sets of historians, Royalists and Republicans. Even when these two factions agree on what happened, they disagree violently on its reasons, motives, and consequences.
    In my edition of the SOVIET-ARMENIAN ENCYCLOPEDIA the most frequently quoted authorities in the bibliographies on a large variety of subjects are Marx, Engels, and Lenin.
    What I am trying to say here is that anyone who subscribes to a belief system is a dupe or a pathological liar to those who subscribe to a different belief system; and this is true not only of nations and their enemies but also of groups within the same nation or, for that matter, religion or ideology. Stalinists and Trotskyists, Catholics and Protestants, Sunnis and Shias. The irony here is that there is more intolerance and hostility within the same religion and ideology than between alien belief systems.
    Whom to believe? My answer is to dismiss all of them as pathological liars inebriated with their own self-righteousness.
    There are of course many honest men who are also believers. I have nothing against them, except the suspicion that their critical faculties may not be fully developed.
    To those who say it is not skeptics and critics who build cathedrals and raise empires. J.S. Bach was neither a critic nor a skeptic.
    I have no use for empire builders.
    As for Bach: I worship him to such a degree that I have dedicated a good fraction of my life to the study of his works; and as far as I know, no one has ever been victimized, deceived, or exploited in his name.
    #

    Comment


    • Re: elegy

      Originally posted by arabaliozian View Post
      i suspect you will hate me even more if i prove my point; and i for one do not relish the idea of being hated by my fellow armenians.
      I suspect you change the subject by irrelevant stuff... I don't hate you. Provide some proof/ source or else we can safely assume that you're delivering your propaganda to the reader by decrying what you claim as 'propaganda'.

      Comment


      • Re: elegy

        Originally posted by arabaliozian View Post
        the Bagratunies identified themselves a hrias...(not xxxs).
        since when "hrias" in english is a dirty word, may i ask?
        Probably since they starting embracing hipocracy as their state slogan.
        Hayastan or Bust.

        Comment


        • Re: elegy

          Originally posted by Lucin View Post
          Provide a proof/ a source for the above allegation or else it'd be just considered as another Baliozian propaganda...
          I agree with you Lucin. History knows it and history hasn't lied to us and neither the historians.
          Last edited by Anoush; 07-11-2009, 07:59 AM.

          Comment


          • Re: elegy

            Originally posted by arabaliozian View Post
            Does the video tell us how he lost his empire?
            Why do you only dwell on how he lost his empire and not dwell as well on his great and wonderful achievements throughout his life. He has done some astonishing and eminent deeds that today as Armenians we tell our children of that paticular era that makes us proud as a nation and as a nationality. Why are you trying to take that away from our children and ourselves? I am disappointed in you Ara for this and also for saying that the well known and well observed our sacred and our astounding battle of Avarair lead by the mighty Mamigonian is a phib. I believe that Lucy is right.

            Comment


            • Re: elegy

              As for the Battle of Avarair:
              it is mentioned only by one Armenian chronicler who happened to be a Mamigonian hireling.
              No one else, not even
              Persian chronicles mention it -- and they had every reason to brag about it...with all their elephants and mighty/invincible army... it must have been an important chapter in their military history. and as a rule, they never fail to mention a victory.

              my source: a highly reputed Mekhitarist historian and medievalist.

              Comment


              • Re: elegy

                Originally posted by Anoush View Post
                I agree with you Lucin. History knows it and history hasn't lied to us.
                history doesn't lie.
                but historians do.
                and where would history be without historians?

                Comment


                • Re: elegy

                  Originally posted by arabaliozian View Post
                  history doesn't lie.
                  but historians do.
                  and where would history be without historians?
                  But do you make your allegations on how the Persians didn't mention it? Have you read all their chronicles and articles? And even and if they didn't mention it, perhaps because they also felt that we won through keeping our Christian faith and that is why they didn't dare to mention it.

                  Comment


                  • Re: elegy

                    Originally posted by arabaliozian View Post
                    Does the video tell us how he lost his empire?
                    Why don't you read "Hayots Badmoutyun" by Hrant Pastermajian. It is in Armenian and it is translated by Moushegh Ishkhan. On page 56 "Herom yev ir daradsoume tebi arevelk". Since you are so interested as how our Dikran the Great at the very end lost his empire and one of his sons unfortunately betrayed him. While you're at it however on page 47 start reading about DIKRAN MEDS his achievements "Nevajoumnere", the King of Kings "Arkayits Arkan" on page 51, Dikran the Great's Capital "Dikrani Mayrakaghake" on page 52, Dikran's and his Palace's spirit "Dikrani yev ir baladi vokin" on page 53, Armenia's social construction "Hayasdani Engerayin Garuytse" on page 54, and finally Armenia's Military Strength "Hayasdani Zinvoragan Ouje" on page 55. The Book is published by Hamazkain Vahe Setian Debaran and it is printed in Lebanon.
                    Last edited by Anoush; 07-11-2009, 08:17 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: elegy

                      Originally posted by Anoush View Post
                      But do you make your allegations on how the Persians didn't mention it? Have you read all their chronicles and articles? And even and if they didn't mention it, perhaps because they also felt that we won through keeping our Christian faith and that is why they didn't dare to mention it.

                      i am not a historian.
                      i don't read sources.
                      i only choose which historians i can trust.
                      the others i dismiss as charlatans and propagandists.
                      and if it gives you pleasure to dismiss me as one of them,
                      go right ahead.
                      i will not come between you and your ego.
                      Ego!
                      i may expand on that concept in the future...
                      in the meantime i suggest you do not trust anything that flatters your ego.
                      because that's when they'll get you.
                      politicians need dupes.
                      all leaders do.
                      avoid them like the plague.

                      Comment

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